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And that is actually my concern.

 

This game is not going to stay healthy if players cant get ahold of the stuff that is defining the meta, or at a very least a huge part of it, more powerful than the stuff that is out now, or at least on equal terms with it, and still relevant and playable.

 

That is like having a really good magic card, like a black lotus, where only a smaller portion of the player base has it, but it is still playable in tournaments and are played heavily in casual (hell, really, everywhere).  What happens is people get tired of waiting to get "theirs" whatever "theirs" may in fact be, and while they are willing to wait for a while, they wont wait forever, and they WILL quit the game.

 

I have seen this happen with countless games that have expansions, and extra options, and add ons and such.  People are super pumped to play, but cant get their add-on, so they play what they have.  Then someone comes along with the new sweetness, outclasses the hell out of them, and they loose.  It happens a few times, then they decide to go buy the new hotness, and then realise they cant get it.

 

They wait a month for it to come back.

 

It doesn't.

 

They wait, and shelf the game (which is where XWing is at in my community.  There are like 4 dudes with everything, because they played since wave one, there is me with some stuff, (1 Falcon, 1 Firespray, one of everything imperial save for tie fighters, 1 xwing, 1 e wing and a 2400), and the other 6 players that want to play the fun and cool stuff, but cant get ahold of anything other than a shuttle, imperial aces, and a core set, because everything else is not stocked.  They were patient for a while, and ordered their phantoms and defenders off of ebay because they are still practical and not overly expensive, but thats about all they could get, so now, the game is shelved for them because they cant play what they want to play not because its out of print, not because its permanently discontinued, but because FFG cant manage inventory well.

 

And even now, my FLGS has one HWK 290 and a 2400 in stock, that is his entire stock for X-Wing, and can't even get core sets. He has had them on back order with FFG and EVERY ONE OF HIS DISTRIBUTORS now for months, literally, months. Look across aisle from the empty space, and look at attack wing, and yeah, the models may look like ****, are out of scale, and the game has about as much balance in it as anakian was mentally stable, but at least their in stock. He has a wall of stuff, and regularly gets new stuff in stock.  Better yet, because they are in stock, he can run growth leagues, new player build days, organized events without official prizes from Wiz Kids and can put up a ship or two for a friday night 'fight, and he would LOVE to get (i would too) a community started like the one for Attack wing, but he has to have product for it, and he just cant get it.

 

Im sure FFG probably has their reasons, but the bottom line is, this isn't healthy. Its bad for a game.

 

Lastly, like i said, i cant get mad at the dudes who buy everything because they can. I cant get mad at the guy who buys 8 falcons because he feels some compulsion to do so, but someone else said it, and i will echo it:

 

You can't be ok with that, and not be ok with scalpers.  Its a double standard.  Whether someone is buying one for little and selling it on eBay, or someone is buying his 5th and 6th so he can have a cool looking shelf hanging above his TV, it doesn't matter, the effect is still bad on the community.

 

I will also state that it is not one players' responsibility to ensure that people have what they need to play the game, so if i am Mr. 4 Falcon dude, i have no obligation to not buy no 5 and 6 if i want them, regardless if whether someone else can get them or not.  So if i want to buy 6 of them, then **** you because i will.  However it shoud also be noted that people will leave the game if they cant get what they need to play, so i guess in the long run, if FFG cant get this figured out, then i guess we only hurt ourselves?

 

I have only seen this exact thing happen every time there is a mass shooting and AR-15s and Ammunition for all calibers go up and quadruple in price overnight and for some crazy reason, everyone goes buy crazy.

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Their reason is pretty simple. This game is hotter than they even dreamed of. Reprints are more of an art than a science. They only have so much warehouse space. 

 

And if they survived the shortages of 2013, when there were far, far few ships/products for them to get, then I think the game will be fine with the current shortages. It has been quite some time since we needed a reprint of a lot of these ships, so clearly, FFG is getting better at managing their stock. I'm sorry, but this is hardly a new issue. And the game is clearly doing fine. 

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Wow, I have to admit I didn't realize just how out of stock things had gotten. Hang in there. Stock will reappear. When I started it was Y-wings that were impossible to find. A few months later miniature market had everything I wanted. In the meantime there are plenty of Decimators and aces packs. Lots of fun things therin.

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Nothing wrong with owning multiples but when your buying twelve of a ship you'll never be able to fly together in one game that's being a bit dickish.

And scalpers who buy in bulk so they can sell at inflated prices on eBay and Amazon need to be strung up.

I have to wonder why you'd ever need 4 Falcons. It does seem rather...self indulgent

Some of us like to do modifications and repaints... seems like a simple thing to understand, there is now a whole subforum devoted to it.

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4 Falcons gives you 8 Engine Upgrades. Do you need 8?

Perhaps... 4 per side is hardly unreasonable. Not to mention epic. Also there's other upgrades in the Falcon that you may want 4 of.Point is, that you seemed to have missed, is that there's more in that box then just the model itself, there's upgrades that you may want for other stuff. For example the Advanced Sensors that come with the Shuttle, at 1 per shuttle. Or the Heavy Laser Cannon that comes with the Firespray pack.There is nothing even remotely self indulgent in wanting to have enough of a given upgrade to field a tournament legal list.You asked why anyone would want 4 Falcons, I answered the question.

For one group I game with, when we play X wing.. I provide all the ships for 2, 2 player games.. so I have 4 falcons.. I have 4 firesprays.. I have 5 shuttles... 4 imp aces.. 5 advanced.. and 4 of each ship except HWKs.. just 2, and 2 each of 2400 and VT49. Overall, I have 80 some odd ships, to provide for multiple players..

Go ahead be mad at me.. not gonna bother me really..

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The issue is more about supply than whether people have the right to buy things. It is simply a reality that if you buy 3 Falcons, 2 other players can't. They don't have Fat Han or Engine Upgrade.

I'm not adding judgement to that. That's just reality.

 

I agree it's a supply issue - if they sell more than are produced, and in a short time frame, then the reality is that the shop will need to order more, the suppliers will need to order more and in turn FFG will need to order more.  It seems to me that there's nothing wrong with people buying multiples; it's not in their power to know the stock levels or the demand levels of a given ship.  I did get the impression that people were suggesting that it was the people buying multiple's fault, so I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what people were saying.

 

What FLGS might also have to contend with is other FLGS. I know in my area we have a small store that often gets bumped to the bottom of the Supply chain when ever any restocks come in. There has been more than a few times I go into my store and they say they order 10 got 3. Then bob the traveling X-Wing player comes in with 1 of all the new Ships telling everyone how he got them all from the larger stores down south and north of us.

 

I also think FFG has a supply problem. I'm not trying to cover for them but they have to understand the longer it takes for things to hit the shelves the quicker the "Oh I gotta have it factor" go's down. Eventualy the cool factor of X-Wing and all their other games will fade and then it will comes down to the companies rep that will keep customers coming back at the moment their not gonna look so pretty. 

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4 Falcons gives you 8 Engine Upgrades. Do you need 8?

Perhaps... 4 per side is hardly unreasonable. Not to mention epic. Also there's other upgrades in the Falcon that you may want 4 of.Point is, that you seemed to have missed, is that there's more in that box then just the model itself, there's upgrades that you may want for other stuff. For example the Advanced Sensors that come with the Shuttle, at 1 per shuttle. Or the Heavy Laser Cannon that comes with the Firespray pack.There is nothing even remotely self indulgent in wanting to have enough of a given upgrade to field a tournament legal list.You asked why anyone would want 4 Falcons, I answered the question.

For one group I game with, when we play X wing.. I provide all the ships for 2, 2 player games.. so I have 4 falcons.. I have 4 firesprays.. I have 5 shuttles... 4 imp aces.. 5 advanced.. and 4 of each ship except HWKs.. just 2, and 2 each of 2400 and VT49. Overall, I have 80 some odd ships, to provide for multiple players..

Go ahead be mad at me.. not gonna bother me really..

 

The kicker is you dont have to justify your purchasing actions or decisions to anyone, thats the thing.

 

While i personally dont understand why people can be made at scalpers but not mad at someone who buys 10 of everything is something i dont understand fully (although i do get mad at scalpers, there is a connotation of victimization there that rings with me, i have to adjust myself to remember that its no worse than hoarding, with or without a purpose) understand, i honestly think that FFG has some inventory issues that need to be cleared out.

 

I think, in my mind, if FFG could give the gaming populace more information to work on, like what their anticipated allocation is, i think it would help a lot and go a long way.  I also think if FFG could give us a date, even a rough estimate, however something more accurate than Fiscal Q1 2015 i also think that would help, but when they arent saying anything other than "they're on their way" doesnt help much and feeds into the problem with players getting frustrated that there is no end in sight to their gaming woes.

 

I also agree with Brigon in that i think they have inventory issues, and the "cool factor" fading, or as i refer to it, shelving, games like attack wing are just getting bigger and bigger because they can meet the demand.

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4 Falcons gives you 8 Engine Upgrades. Do you need 8?

Perhaps... 4 per side is hardly unreasonable. Not to mention epic. Also there's other upgrades in the Falcon that you may want 4 of.Point is, that you seemed to have missed, is that there's more in that box then just the model itself, there's upgrades that you may want for other stuff. For example the Advanced Sensors that come with the Shuttle, at 1 per shuttle. Or the Heavy Laser Cannon that comes with the Firespray pack.There is nothing even remotely self indulgent in wanting to have enough of a given upgrade to field a tournament legal list.You asked why anyone would want 4 Falcons, I answered the question.

For one group I game with, when we play X wing.. I provide all the ships for 2, 2 player games.. so I have 4 falcons.. I have 4 firesprays.. I have 5 shuttles... 4 imp aces.. 5 advanced.. and 4 of each ship except HWKs.. just 2, and 2 each of 2400 and VT49. Overall, I have 80 some odd ships, to provide for multiple players..

Go ahead be mad at me.. not gonna bother me really..

The kicker is you dont have to justify your purchasing actions or decisions to anyone, thats the thing.

 

While i personally dont understand why people can be made at scalpers but not mad at someone who buys 10 of everything is something i dont understand fully (although i do get mad at scalpers, there is a connotation of victimization there that rings with me, i have to adjust myself to remember that its no worse than hoarding, with or without a purpose) understand, i honestly think that FFG has some inventory issues that need to be cleared out.

 

I think, in my mind, if FFG could give the gaming populace more information to work on, like what their anticipated allocation is, i think it would help a lot and go a long way.  I also think if FFG could give us a date, even a rough estimate, however something more accurate than Fiscal Q1 2015 i also think that would help, but when they arent saying anything other than "they're on their way" doesnt help much and feeds into the problem with players getting frustrated that there is no end in sight to their gaming woes.

 

I also agree with Brigon in that i think they have inventory issues, and the "cool factor" fading, or as i refer to it, shelving, games like attack wing are just getting bigger and bigger because they can meet the demand.

I understand your position regarding supply. But I am going to go out on a limb here and claim you know very little about international logistics, production, and supply chain management. FFG shouldn't offer a release date any more solid than they already do. They haven't even been able do hit the quarter they claim...what makes you think giving us a date is going to do?

There are countless things that could go wrong when it comes to international shipping. I work in the purchasing department for a fortune 100 company...the largest electronics distributor in the world as a matter of fact...and stuff comes in late all the **** time. I put no stock in ANYONEs ETA. Factory strikes in China, freak storms or rogue waves on the high seas, engine malfunctions, piracy, dock workers strikes or slowdowns, equipment issues, port capacity problems, customs paperwork, governmental red tape, and the fact that the shipping industry is using bigger and bigger ships that most Ports and canals just can't handle anymore without being refit. And those are just the issues I could think of off the top of my head...and my shipments have encountered a good manga of these.

The primary problem is that people are impatient...they also are convinced that they know far more about what is going on than they actually do. There are reasons that the stock isn't in yet...and the company has no duty and really no business letting us know exactly what they are. We won't get anything better than the quarter because that gives them the largest reasonable window...and people here get all pissy when they Miss that too. A more exact ETA would only exacerbate the problem.

Your flgs may just have crappy suppliers...I started going to a different flgs a few months ago because they had plenty of xwing stock...where my old one never did. He had a better supplier and thus a new customer. He even had a falcon until a few weeks ago...

As far as your first point about scalping, hoarding, and justifying. I don't think he really is justifying anything...he is explaining to someone why someone would guy extra ships...he doesn't strike me as feeling guilty for it. Simply answering sometimes question. As far as the "scalping" people fed mad at those people because some don't like people profiteering off of their desperation. As I stated above I am neutral to the whole idea...the intent of it matters. You may see it as one and the same but I draw a different distinction. People but multiples for different reasons...who are you to look down on them for utilizing property they paid for in the way they see most fit?

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Woot double post...

But I'll add in this as well. Forecasting customer demand is **** hard if not impossible...I know because I have to attempt to do it every month...and that is with products that have pretty steady YOY trends. Xwing has straight up EXPLODED...it's very scary going out on a limb and over producing...if you are wrong you might as well have not sold anything in alot of cases...demand for this game has to be neigh impossible to forecast accurately...and each new shipment is more risky than the last.

EDIT TO ADD: figures...my 400 post was a double...well at least I made something out of it

Edited by ShakeZoola72

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Woot double post...

But I'll add in this as well. Forecasting customer demand is **** hard if not impossible...I know because I have to attempt to do it every month...and that is with products that have pretty steady YOY trends. Xwing has straight up EXPLODED...it's very scary going out on a limb and over producing...if you are wrong you might as well have not sold anything in alot of cases...demand for this game has to be neigh impossible to forecast accurately...and each new shipment is more risky than the last.

EDIT TO ADD: figures...my 400 post was a double...well at least I made something out of it

congrads on 400 :P

 

  Thank you for your insight into the International scene when it comes to moving the goods. But I think a lot of the frustration people feel and yes our impatient. Comes of a lack of communication beyond a few snips of info I know company's have to hold their cards close to their chest or they might burn them selves or their customers. But even if all we got was a Forum moderator jumping in every so often saying "Hey guys! Moderator 413 here good news! Decimators are on their way, Bad News Falcons got held up at the dock doing what we can hang in there!" I think that would help cool down tempers.

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I understand your position regarding supply. But I am going to go out on a limb here and claim you know very little about international logistics, production, and supply chain management. FFG shouldn't offer a release date any more solid than they already do. They haven't even been able do hit the quarter they claim...what makes you think giving us a date is going to do?

There are countless things that could go wrong when it comes to international shipping. I work in the purchasing department for a fortune 100 company...the largest electronics distributor in the world as a matter of fact...and stuff comes in late all the **** time. I put no stock in ANYONEs ETA. Factory strikes in China, freak storms or rogue waves on the high seas, engine malfunctions, piracy, dock workers strikes or slowdowns, equipment issues, port capacity problems, customs paperwork, governmental red tape, and the fact that the shipping industry is using bigger and bigger ships that most Ports and canals just can't handle anymore without being refit. And those are just the issues I could think of off the top of my head...and my shipments have encountered a good manga of these.

The primary problem is that people are impatient...they also are convinced that they know far more about what is going on than they actually do. There are reasons that the stock isn't in yet...and the company has no duty and really no business letting us know exactly what they are. We won't get anything better than the quarter because that gives them the largest reasonable window...and people here get all pissy when they Miss that too. A more exact ETA would only exacerbate the problem.

Your flgs may just have crappy suppliers...I started going to a different flgs a few months ago because they had plenty of xwing stock...where my old one never did. He had a better supplier and thus a new customer. He even had a falcon until a few weeks ago...

As far as your first point about scalping, hoarding, and justifying. I don't think he really is justifying anything...he is explaining to someone why someone would guy extra ships...he doesn't strike me as feeling guilty for it. Simply answering sometimes question. As far as the "scalping" people fed mad at those people because some don't like people profiteering off of their desperation. As I stated above I am neutral to the whole idea...the intent of it matters. You may see it as one and the same but I draw a different distinction. People but multiples for different reasons...who are you to look down on them for utilizing property they paid for in the way they see most fit?

 

Well, your right, im certainly not as knowledgable as you in regards to meeting CA% and attempting to guess it.  I also haven't seen anything remotely close to forecasting, and like you I'm pretty sure YOY growth is something that FFG will keep close to their chest.  And I wont even begin to play in your world about the intricacies over overseas shipments and the logistics of moving products back and forth.

 

In a previous life,  i did spend a LONG time in PR, i can tell you that keeping your clients in the dark, regardless if whether they have good news or bad news, is typically a terrible idea.  It doesn't take much to make clients feel like you have led them by a leash, and given the examples so many have given here, I'm guessing many already do.  I deal with a lot of imported products, especially with ammunition, and components, and understand completely how things can get all screwy (especially when the BATFE is involved in ANYTHING)

 

I understand that timelines cannot always be met.  I also do understand a little about the process of importing a good (note, little, not lots, not experience, just a little), and i can see where things get bound up.

 

So tell your customers that and give them an idea, even if it is feel good fluff (because we wouldn't know the difference anyway) about "still at sea".  Many times, calming customer discontent is more about how committed you are to follow through than it is the substance you are following through with.  I can't help but think that even a blurb about progress, even if it i some completely arbitrary percentage to completion would make people feel better.  It just surprises me that, and maybe its because of their suppliers and being in china, FFG cannot get any closer to releasing a date other than a fiscal quarter.

 

You're right, i have no where near the knowledge and experience you do, but a 3 month window with no updates (other than spoilers, which are cool, i admit) is the best kind of guesstimate they can do to me doesn't make sense to me, and maybe thats my fault for putting an unrealistic expectation on them, but I'm surprised that smaller companies like Rio Grande or Wiz Kids can produce more accurate time lines than FFG.  I know we keep talking about FFG as being a small game company, but really, in terms of board games, they're actually pretty sizable in comparison to their competition. (with that i completely understand that FFG is in no way a global powerhouse shot caller, but they aren't a mom and pops operation either. I mean, they do have the star wars license, that couldn't have been easy to get.)

 

NOTE: there is no saracsm in that post. its meant as an honest and respectful reply

Edited by sc077y

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It is disappointing, I agree. I've been hearing from many new players that they can't find ships to buy. If people are going to buy 3 of everything, they will have to accept that there are fewer players in the community. Unfortunately, I get the sense they don't care.

Check E-bay, if they are up for triple the retail cost, then you know whats up.

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Guest Andy1909

Adding my two pennies worth in.

 

I only started getting into this game in Sept. A chance purchase in Forbidden planet of the core set and seeing some of the Falcon rebuilds. At the time it was between production runs and it seemed like I would be waiting forever for various ships

 

3 months later and the total is...

 

6 x wings (2 cores), 2 E, 3 Z95, 3 B, 2 A, 1 Hwk, 2 Y, 1 GR75. 1 YT2400. Will be adding another Z95 and an A at some point.

 

6 TIE, 2 Defender, 1 Phantom, 1 Advanced, 2 Bomber, 5 Interceptor, 1 Devastator, 1 Firespray.

 

3 ships I haven't got...

 

The Falcon... out of stock unless you wanted to pay outrageous amazon seller price. Local FLGS has it behind counter for  me to pick up now.

Shuttle....keep putting this one off.

Tantive...the day I buy this I know I have went too far :-)

 

Various conversations during this time along lines of...you have no chance of getting x y  or z models. Or the occasional yes we have stock, but we want you to remortgage the house so you can buy it.

 

There were a lot of online/retail shops that had stock. But it seemed like people weren't prepared to spend an hour or so in front of the PC doing a search. These ranged from wargames stockists, to model shops to games shops. 

 

One thing I would suggest....

 

http://www.newarkirregulars.org.uk/

 

There is a calendar for wargames shows worldwide, link on left of page. Includes links to to a lot of the organisers pages, which normally include a list of traders. If you have a local show pay a visit, or if not, run through the traders and see if they stock FFG. I was surprised at the number of UK traders that do actually have the stuff. Don't just rely on the big name shops as they seem to sell out quickly. 

 

And I make no apologies for buying more than one of each model. I intend to get 3 of the Falcons at some point, but that's because I intend to convert 2 of them.

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So tell your customers that and give them an idea, even if it is feel good fluff (because we wouldn't know the difference anyway) about "still at sea".  Many times, calming customer discontent is more about how committed you are to follow through than it is the substance you are following through with.  I can't help but think that even a blurb about progress, even if it i some completely arbitrary percentage to completion would make people feel better.  It just surprises me that, and maybe its because of their suppliers and being in china, FFG cannot get any closer to releasing a date other than a fiscal quarter.

 

 

 

You mean something like this:

 

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_upcoming.asp

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So tell your customers that and give them an idea, even if it is feel good fluff (because we wouldn't know the difference anyway) about "still at sea".  Many times, calming customer discontent is more about how committed you are to follow through than it is the substance you are following through with.  I can't help but think that even a blurb about progress, even if it i some completely arbitrary percentage to completion would make people feel better.  It just surprises me that, and maybe its because of their suppliers and being in china, FFG cannot get any closer to releasing a date other than a fiscal quarter.

 

 

 

You mean something like this:

 

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_upcoming.asp

 

yeah, that would be amazing. However the dates given are all either expired or Q1.

 

so yup, that updated i think would be amazing.

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It is disappointing, I agree. I've been hearing from many new players that they can't find ships to buy. If people are going to buy 3 of everything, they will have to accept that there are fewer players in the community. Unfortunately, I get the sense they don't care.

Your solution is for people to buy less ships........not make more ships? Fantasy Flight has had a hard time keeping up with the demand. I understand we all want the game to grow and want to invite newer players into the game. Often this happens because people own multiple copies of ships so they can field both sides and introduce people to the game.
I'm just a girl in Canada. We have the free market here but we don't worship it.

I'm not attempting to suggest any solutions. I've been clear about that. If you buy a lot of ships, you have fewer players in the community. Period.

I'm sure it will all get figured out soon. FFG was probably surprised by the boom of attention. I heard wave 2 was a very different community size than it is now, at wave 6. That is difficult to predict.

I believe FFG has it well in hand. In our local area, proxy has become an increasingly popular thing. People who don't have engine upgrade can proxy it, people who want to test scum or tie advanced cards may. It works out.

I don't have to approve of your frivolous spending habits. Your wife does. ^___^

 

Not true.  The game is great because there are so many ways to make 100 point lists- anyone do the permutation?  No one is saying you MUST fly a fat han... I dont even own a falcon.  So, it is folly to say you wont play without the 1 or 2 ships that are unavailable or their will be fewer players.  Obviously, if you REALLY REALLY want one NOW they are available at a higher price (And lower prices too) anyways.  So these arguments make no sense.      

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And that is actually my concern.

 

This game is not going to stay healthy if players cant get ahold of the stuff that is defining the meta, or at a very least a huge part of it, more powerful than the stuff that is out now, or at least on equal terms with it, and still relevant and playable.

....

So your complaint is the game is selling too well?   Especially when comparing to attack wing?  Yeah, that premise doesn't really fly very convincingly.  

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It is amazing how quickly forget the history of this game. Or those that are newer. Does anyone remember the great A-wing and Interceptor shortage of 2013? Heck, by the middle of the summer, I think only the core and X-wings and TIE Fighters were available. And even then, the expansions were beginning to get thin. At Gencon, people were more interested in Interceptors than they were for any of the Wave 3 stuff. They ran out of Interceptors and other Wave 2 stuff before they ran out of Wave 3 stuff. 

 

I think if the game could survive the Wave 2 shortages, which was followed up with the game itself getting a bit difficult to find, I think we will be able to survive this. Yes, things seem to be getting scarce. But, we have about 6 ships that are fairly easy to get. Which is a heck of a lot better when people were being forced to get Cores for additional ships. We have reprints on the way. And when they get here, we can forget this problem for some time. Patience can be hard. I know, I went a summer with 1/3 A-wings and 2/4 Interceptors that I wanted at the time. 

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I have one Falcon I bought when I got into game a year ago. I think I've used it once as I play Imperials usually. If I was ambitious, I might get another to do a double Falcon list but I also have an Outrider so that's probably never going to happen. Only real reason I can see for buying another is the EU cards; silly that FFG has not put them in another expansion yet.

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On the topic of popular upgrade cards, FFG has now set a hopeful precedent by including an alt art copy of Push the Limit as the participation prize in their upcoming game night kit. One could speculate that they will already have considered giving out copies of Engine Upgrade in a future kit. They started the trend of including doubles of some upgrades in boxes back in wave two, but are now also packing triples and even quadruples in the case of the Raider's TIE Advanced cards. They are also including hard to get cards like Advanced Sensors and Heavy Laser Cannon in multiple expansions now as well. I think they're addressing this issue sufficiently.

 

The stock issues are tougher though. This is the second time that the wave 2 stuff has been in an extended state of shortage. I would have hoped that they learned from the first time, but I don't know what else they had to take into consideration in deciding when to do another print run of their products. It sucks that it's leading newer players to give up on the game. What some veteran players in my area have been doing though, is selling used expansion packs to newer players (well below MSRP naturally) or loaning them expansion packs or cards until new stock arrives. Not being able to buy the ships you want is not the ideal situation especially for a non-collectible game, but at the very least, the community can help out there too.

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4 Falcons gives you 8 Engine Upgrades. Do you need 8?

Perhaps... 4 per side is hardly unreasonable. Not to mention epic. Also there's other upgrades in the Falcon that you may want 4 of.Point is, that you seemed to have missed, is that there's more in that box then just the model itself, there's upgrades that you may want for other stuff. For example the Advanced Sensors that come with the Shuttle, at 1 per shuttle. Or the Heavy Laser Cannon that comes with the Firespray pack.There is nothing even remotely self indulgent in wanting to have enough of a given upgrade to field a tournament legal list.You asked why anyone would want 4 Falcons, I answered the question.

For one group I game with, when we play X wing.. I provide all the ships for 2, 2 player games.. so I have 4 falcons.. I have 4 firesprays.. I have 5 shuttles... 4 imp aces.. 5 advanced.. and 4 of each ship except HWKs.. just 2, and 2 each of 2400 and VT49. Overall, I have 80 some odd ships, to provide for multiple players..

Go ahead be mad at me.. not gonna bother me really..

The kicker is you dont have to justify your purchasing actions or decisions to anyone, thats the thing.

 

While i personally dont understand why people can be made at scalpers but not mad at someone who buys 10 of everything is something i dont understand fully (although i do get mad at scalpers, there is a connotation of victimization there that rings with me, i have to adjust myself to remember that its no worse than hoarding, with or without a purpose) understand, i honestly think that FFG has some inventory issues that need to be cleared out.

 

I think, in my mind, if FFG could give the gaming populace more information to work on, like what their anticipated allocation is, i think it would help a lot and go a long way.  I also think if FFG could give us a date, even a rough estimate, however something more accurate than Fiscal Q1 2015 i also think that would help, but when they arent saying anything other than "they're on their way" doesnt help much and feeds into the problem with players getting frustrated that there is no end in sight to their gaming woes.

 

I also agree with Brigon in that i think they have inventory issues, and the "cool factor" fading, or as i refer to it, shelving, games like attack wing are just getting bigger and bigger because they can meet the demand.

I know I dont have to justify myself, but I think some people don't consider the situations out there. I game in 2 different groups.. 3 actually if you count the days I spend at he game store. And I provide for one group, another friend provids for other games for us, and in the other group someone else provides all the games so far.. but he has dozens, and just recently spent a couple hundred on more..

You dont always know he situation, so here is just an insight, and I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation.

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And that is actually my concern.

 

This game is not going to stay healthy if players cant get ahold of the stuff that is defining the meta, or at a very least a huge part of it, more powerful than the stuff that is out now, or at least on equal terms with it, and still relevant and playable.

....

So your complaint is the game is selling too well?   Especially when comparing to attack wing?  Yeah, that premise doesn't really fly very convincingly.  

 

It may not be a wonderful premise when simplified, but i do think there are layers to this.  When two of the most played upgrades come from ships that are unavailable, and one of those ships has become a significant archetype in the meta that is played very often, I'm concerned that without sufficient availability for players to get ahold of the stuff they want/need (need is a fairly strong word) that players are less inclined to play, especially in organized events.

 

As someone who has a some stuff (I have a falcon, slave 1, one of most stuff, but not all) I couldn't imagine attempting to go to an organized event without at least having access to Veteran Instincts, let alone Engine upgrade, and both of those cards have remained as tournament staples for quite some time.  In terms of the Falcon alone, that thing has been a staple for rebel forces for quite some time (although certainly not their only build) and not only is one of the most sought after ships because of just being what it is (i mean, who doesn't love the falcon) but its also very strong and can be built into a powerhouse that asks the question "can you kill me before the clock".

 

So if these ships are so prevalent in the meta (obviously the Falcon, but one maybe could argue the Firespray because of what it comes with, specifically the upgrade Veteran Instincts, but stealth device has seen some play, Expose is seeing more play than it did with the VT-49, Draw their Fire has been played in a few different competitive lists from the Falcon, but by no means a staple), and they are unavailable, and people cant play competitively without these cards (or at least have a significantly reduced chance of winning, i mean, image running Dash without engine upgrade, or so many other ships that see play with that one upgrade, or whisper without VI, or really, many builds without VI) and people cant get them, they just wont play because they feel they have a reduced chance of winning.  Going into a game where you do not have parity in chance because your opponent has access to better upgrades than you from a completely arbitrary force that has nothing to do with the game play is frustrating, and i'm sure its probably made a few people more than a little frustrated at the experience.

 

I mean, honestly, Whisper or Echo without VI i'm sure is quite playable, but if i was going to play in a tournament, i don't know if i would want to try it.  It seems like it wouldn't take too many shots from super dash or fat Han to bring him down, but of course i can always be wrong.

 

And while i know there will be plenty of anecdotal evidence as to why you don't need these cards to play competitively, i feel like there is a good reason why Engine Upgrade or Veteran Instincts shows up in every list that isn't tie swarm.  So in that regard, i truly feel that a game can outsell itself, especially when there is disparity in how powerful some of the upgrades are vs the others. If there were truly alternates that would replace these cards with good effect, or create as powerful synergies it wouldn't be an issue, but movement is one of the most powerful abilities in the game, and a 2 point boost in piloting skill for a point is pretty insane.

 

I know I dont have to justify myself, but I think some people don't consider the situations out there. I game in 2 different groups.. 3 actually if you count the days I spend at he game store. And I provide for one group, another friend provids for other games for us, and in the other group someone else provides all the games so far.. but he has dozens, and just recently spent a couple hundred on more..

You dont always know he situation, so here is just an insight, and I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation.

 

 

No, your fine, being the central gamer in the group is fine, i have done it plenty of times, i just wanted to call out that while you weren't really justifying your decisions, and more pointing to a new perspective, i just wanted to make sure that the people stating how frustrated they are at inventory levels, while it is understood, cant really blame the players or the scalpers, because ultimately, i feel like the leading contributor to the current frustration isn't player controlled. (sorry for the run on sentence)

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Sc077y,

I think you are making a far bigger deal out of this than it deserves. The truths are that this is a very well balanced game and there will be more Falcons, Firesprays and others soon. If someone is so impatient that they will forever quit a game because they can't have engine upgrade, or veteran's instinct right this minute they probably would be a greater source of frustration to the community at large, not a boon.

In the meantime there are lots of available ships, cards and competitive lists that need neither. I get your concern, but you have been repeating it for days now and each repetition gets more hyperbolic than the last. It will be ok.

Edited by Stelar 7

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The problem isn't that some people want more ships. THe problem is that these people are, inadvertently, dictating my game experience. I could choose not to buy S/V but if I do (and if i Don't i don't get the new cards) I would have had to preorder months ago and queue up with all the people who insist on having 3x everything within. The whole lot is also too expensive for me really. So I'm looking to get out of the game if the price is right (it won't be I doubt).

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