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Biggs against torpedoes

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I realised recently that I'm not sure how Biggs interacts with missiles. The text on Biggs' card is:

"Other friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted by attacks if the attacker could target you instead."

In a recent game the situation arose that a TIE Bomber had a target lock on my YT-2400 and wanted to fire Proton Torpedoes at the YT-2400. Biggs was sat behind the freighter.

My opponent's interpretation was that his Bomber could shoot the YT-2400 because the attack couldn't be aimed at Biggs. My interpretation was that the Bomber could fire his primary weapon at Biggs and was obliged to do so.

In the opinion of this forum, which of us was correct?

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The official ruling is that Biggs' ability trumps the ability to choose which attack you're declaring.

 

If you have an attack that can target Biggs, you must target Biggs. 

  • If he's at Range 1 and you have Proton Torpedoes, you can't fire your Torps
  • If he's out of arc and you have a Turret, you must fire the Turret.

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The official ruling is that Biggs' ability trumps the ability to choose which attack you're declaring.

 

If you have an attack that can target Biggs, you must target Biggs. 

  • If he's at Range 1 and you have Proton Torpedoes, you can't fire your Torps
  • If he's out of arc and you have a Turret, you must fire the Turret.

 

 

Beat me to it, but it's page 10 of the FAQ for the official reference.

 

To be more clear though, if there is another target you can shoot with one weapon that isn't with Range 1 of Biggs, you can choose to attack that other ship. Biggs still only takes target priority if you wanted to attack someone in range 1 of him.

Edited by Otacon

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I realised recently that I'm not sure how Biggs interacts with missiles. The text on Biggs' card is:

"Other friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted by attacks if the attacker could target you instead."

In a recent game the situation arose that a TIE Bomber had a target lock on my YT-2400 and wanted to fire Proton Torpedoes at the YT-2400. Biggs was sat behind the freighter.

My opponent's interpretation was that his Bomber could shoot the YT-2400 because the attack couldn't be aimed at Biggs. My interpretation was that the Bomber could fire his primary weapon at Biggs and was obliged to do so.

In the opinion of this forum, which of us was correct?

As mentioned above you would have to target Biggs. To explain why this is, Step 1 of performing an attack is "choose a target". So the first thing you need to do is pick the ship you're firing at, and you can't select a ship as a target if it is within range 1 of Biggs, so whether you have a secondary weapon or not is irrelevant. Hope that helps! Edited by Cptnhalfbeard

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I realised recently that I'm not sure how Biggs interacts with missiles. The text on Biggs' card is:

"Other friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted by attacks if the attacker could target you instead."

In a recent game the situation arose that a TIE Bomber had a target lock on my YT-2400 and wanted to fire Proton Torpedoes at the YT-2400. Biggs was sat behind the freighter.

My opponent's interpretation was that his Bomber could shoot the YT-2400 because the attack couldn't be aimed at Biggs. My interpretation was that the Bomber could fire his primary weapon at Biggs and was obliged to do so.

In the opinion of this forum, which of us was correct?

As mentioned above you would have to target Biggs. To explain why this is, Step 1 of performing an attack is "choose a target". So the first thing you need to do is pick the ship you're firing at, and you can't select a ship as a target if it is within range 1 of Biggs, so whether you have a secondary weapon or not is irrelevant. Hope that helps!

 

 

Unless Biggs is simultaneously outside of range 3 of you, just to be clear again.

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As mentioned above you would have to target Biggs. To explain why this is, Step 1 of performing an attack is "choose a target". So the first thing you need to do is pick the ship you're firing at, and you can't select a ship as a target if it is within range 1 of Biggs, so whether you have a secondary weapon or not is irrelevant. Hope that helps!

 

This isn't really correct.  If you have a turret which can target Biggs, you must use that weapon.  So having a secondary is very relevant.

 

Biggs doesn't actually fit well into the standard rule/ability structure, because it takes effect at different times and phases, and interacts with the strangeness surrounding secondary weapons.  The best way to think about his ability is a nearly-meta "If an attacker could take any series of choices which would allow him to target Biggs, he cannot target anyone at Range 1 of Biggs."

 

Those choices include weapon selection, so if you can select a weapon which could hit Biggs, you must.

 

Edit: Interestingly, I just realized that Biggs can force you to use a Hot Shot Blaster whether you want to or not.  I think I'll have to add that to Draconan's "Unexpected Interactions" list.

Edited by Buhallin

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Edit: Interestingly, I just realized that Biggs can force you to use a Hot Shot Blaster whether you want to or not.  I think I'll have to add that to Draconan's "Unexpected Interactions" list.

 

Forcing the use of a "discard-the-card" weapon would be a nasty surprise, but you'd have to get Biggs in just the right spot to pull it off.

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Edit: Interestingly, I just realized that Biggs can force you to use a Hot Shot Blaster whether you want to or not.  I think I'll have to add that to Draconan's "Unexpected Interactions" list.

 

Forcing the use of a "discard-the-card" weapon would be a nasty surprise, but you'd have to get Biggs in just the right spot to pull it off.

 

Range 1, and Outside the Arc, isn't exactly a difficult spot to find.

 

However, you can always choose to Not Attack

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Edit: Interestingly, I just realized that Biggs can force you to use a Hot Shot Blaster whether you want to or not.  I think I'll have to add that to Draconan's "Unexpected Interactions" list.

 

Forcing the use of a "discard-the-card" weapon would be a nasty surprise, but you'd have to get Biggs in just the right spot to pull it off.

 

Range 1, and Outside the Arc, isn't exactly a difficult spot to find.

 

However, you can always choose to Not Attack

 

Exactly.  And if you manage to force your opponent into not attacking, Biggs has accomplished his goal in spades.

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Edit: Interestingly, I just realized that Biggs can force you to use a Hot Shot Blaster whether you want to or not.  I think I'll have to add that to Draconan's "Unexpected Interactions" list.

 

Forcing the use of a "discard-the-card" weapon would be a nasty surprise, but you'd have to get Biggs in just the right spot to pull it off.

 

 

Managed that last night  - although I wasn't really trying - managed to turn an Aggressor's R1 primary shot with TL and focus on a shieldless B-Wing into a 3 Dice HSB attack on Biggs - which ended up whiffing - my opponent had the worst dice in the world last night - barn doors all over the galaxy were breathing collective sighs of relief 

 

It was my opponent that spotted the interaction though not me - so Kudos to him for spotting it and forcing the less-optimal attack.

We weren't 100% sure it was the right call - so glad this thread was here to confirm we did it right

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So the old ruling still stands? In the new core rule set you choose your weapon before you declare your target, so if you choose a weapon that can't target Biggs, you don't have to shoot Biggs.

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So the old ruling still stands? In the new core rule set you choose your weapon before you declare your target, so if you choose a weapon that can't target Biggs, you don't have to shoot Biggs.

 

The old ruling still work. This has been explained more thoroughly and eloquently elsewhere, but it is Friday afternoon, and I am too lazy to look up those forum posts or the specific rules text.

 

The biggest change to the process of declaring an attack is that you now have the opportunity to start over if you find yourself trying take an illegal shot (this has always existed in practice, but the old rules technically did not permit it). 

 

Biggs's ability is absolute. There is no particular timing at which you must declare Biggs to be the target. If his card conditions are met (legal target, within range 1 of the ship you want to shoot), you must shoot Biggs.

 

Under the new rules, you may, for example, choose to attack with your Proton Torpedoes, and then attempt to attack a B-wing on which you have a target lock. If Biggs is at range 1 of the B-wing and could be a legal target of your attack, you must back up and choose a different weapon (one that can target Biggs).

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...

 

It was my opponent that spotted the interaction though not me - so Kudos to him for spotting it and forcing the less-optimal attack.

We weren't 100% sure it was the right call - so glad this thread was here to confirm we did it right

 

 

So nice of your opponent to notice the mandatory effect and not just choose to ignore it because you "forgot" about it and didn't remind him.

 

Why does everyone need to shoot at Biggs?  Maybe he's just the ultimate annoyance and if he's in your sights (ie can be targeted while you are considering someone near him to shoot at) you just decide to shoot him instead.  If this game covered the prequel trilogy there would be a ship with Jar-Jar flying it that has the same ability.

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...

 

It was my opponent that spotted the interaction though not me - so Kudos to him for spotting it and forcing the less-optimal attack.

We weren't 100% sure it was the right call - so glad this thread was here to confirm we did it right

 

 

So nice of your opponent to notice the mandatory effect and not just choose to ignore it because you "forgot" about it and didn't remind him.

 

Why does everyone need to shoot at Biggs?  Maybe he's just the ultimate annoyance and if he's in your sights (ie can be targeted while you are considering someone near him to shoot at) you just decide to shoot him instead.  If this game covered the prequel trilogy there would be a ship with Jar-Jar flying it that has the same ability.

 

 

well that's the way we roll at our LGS

 

The choice to shoot Biggs wasn't a bad one for him as he was down to 1 hull so had it worked out he would have been able to take a ship off the board

He would have preferred to take out the B-Wing as it had TL and focus on him at R1, and all Biggs had was an R2 shot with focus

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...

well that's the way we roll at our LGS

...

 

 

Bless you for that.  That's the way I believe things should be played but I'll stop here to keep from derailing the thread.

 

You do bring up a mildly interesting point about Biggs.  Opponent may have to shoot at him instead of other targets but unless those other targets are actually a bigger threat then maybe your opponent would have wanted to shoot at Biggs all along.  I see this situation most when people actually have Biggs as a squadron's "ace" who happens to be providing protection for ships that are weaker than he is; I'm thinking Bandits and Rookies but other examples can be found.

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Also, if for some reason you would prefer to not shoot at biggs you would, not so simply, have to create an arc of fire so that he is outside range 3 from you while your target is at range 3. therefore biggs cannot be a legal target even if he is within range 1 of your actual target. that being said hull 3 shields 2 with possibly a R2-D2 droid slot would generally make biggs primary target number 1 the rest either being to tough to deal with imediately or to weak and much more vulnerable without him.

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