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DraconPyrothayan

"The" most survivable ship.

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So, I was a bit surprised when I saw Major Juggler throw out the numbers for the IG-2000.

 

More to the point, how its 8 hp behind 3 agility takes the most shots to kill out of any non-upgraded ship.

 

Now, how can we crank this to 11?

 

Give A: PTL, an HLC and i dunno...a shield upgrade?

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I was playing Mu0n on Vassal exploring the Duel Aggressor build this morning. After an hour of combat only 2 hits were able to get through on the IG-200's. Autothrusters absurd at least 10 hits during this time.I ultimately lost the match but had we been playing a timed match it would have ended in a tie. Me and Mu0n both came away with the realization that everything will change with the release of the scum. Matches will last much longer then they ever have before.

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So, I was a bit surprised when I saw Major Juggler throw out the numbers for the IG-2000.

More to the point, how its 8 hp behind 3 agility takes the most shots to kill out of any non-upgraded ship.

Now, how can we crank this to 11?

Hmm. I'll have to look into this because my numbers show it as the same durability as the other mainstream large base ships ( not the lambda, not the decimator) Edited by channellockjon

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2 IGs with

Autothrusters, Elusiveness and Sensor Jammer ...

+ Mango and Seismic ...

= 100

 

I don't know why one would use elusiveness these days (or at any time).  You're going to use it once for a 50% chance (or more likely, 25%) to remove 1 damage... and then you're stressed.  LW on the other hand, for the same point, allows you a 37.5% of avoiding an extra damage, but you can use it each time you get shot at.

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2 IGs with

Autothrusters, Elusiveness and Sensor Jammer ...

+ Mango and Seismic ...

= 100

 

I don't know why one would use elusiveness these days (or at any time).  You're going to use it once for a 50% chance (or more likely, 25%) to remove 1 damage... and then you're stressed.  LW on the other hand, for the same point, allows you a 37.5% of avoiding an extra damage, but you can use it each time you get shot at.

 

 

You can't have Lone Wolf for both of your IG's ...

Maybe you want use Expert Handling instead of Elusiveness - thats fine for me, too.

 

Elusiveness on Howlrunner or Vessery, together with Yorr can work wonders.

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2 IGs with

Autothrusters, Elusiveness and Sensor Jammer ...

+ Mango and Seismic ...

= 100

 

I don't know why one would use elusiveness these days (or at any time).  You're going to use it once for a 50% chance (or more likely, 25%) to remove 1 damage... and then you're stressed.  LW on the other hand, for the same point, allows you a 37.5% of avoiding an extra damage, but you can use it each time you get shot at.

 

 

You can't have Lone Wolf for both of your IG's ...

Maybe you want use Expert Handling instead of Elusiveness - thats fine for me, too.

 

Elusiveness on Howlrunner or Vessery, together with Yorr can work wonders.

 

 

But we're also discussing "THE" (quotation marks for emphasis!) most survivable ship.  As in singular.  

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2 IGs with

Autothrusters, Elusiveness and Sensor Jammer ...

+ Mango and Seismic ...

= 100

 

I don't know why one would use elusiveness these days (or at any time).  You're going to use it once for a 50% chance (or more likely, 25%) to remove 1 damage... and then you're stressed.  LW on the other hand, for the same point, allows you a 37.5% of avoiding an extra damage, but you can use it each time you get shot at.

 

 

You can't have Lone Wolf for both of your IG's ...

Maybe you want use Expert Handling instead of Elusiveness - thats fine for me, too.

 

Elusiveness on Howlrunner or Vessery, together with Yorr can work wonders.

 

 

But we're also discussing "THE" (quotation marks for emphasis!) most survivable ship.  As in singular.  

 

 

IG-2000 is as many as 4.

You might pick 2 of the steel brothers...

OK then its IG-88C and IG-88D

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So, I was a bit surprised when I saw Major Juggler throw out the numbers for the IG-2000.

 

More to the point, how its 8 hp behind 3 agility takes the most shots to kill out of any non-upgraded ship.

 

Now, how can we crank this to 11?

Where are these thrown out MJ numbers you speak of?

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hmm, mentioning Soontir.

 

I just thought up he can have the Royal Guard Interceptor tittle and then have a Stealth-Device AND these new all conquering Autothrusters everybody keeps mentioning...

 

sounds pretty fun together with PTL on him :D

 

But not THE most survivable ofc, unless your dice are on fire! :D

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Where are these thrown out MJ numbers you speak of?

 

 

The numbers have been buried in the details post under "Calculating Expected Durability" of my MathWing thread for a while now. 

 

Durability, defined as shots required to kill a ship (and then applying a small weighting to crits that aren't double damage), normalized to a TIE Fighter, copied directly from that thread:

 

Calculating Expected Durability

Durability was previously being calculated based on the ship's overall hit points, divided by its average damage intake. This was a good first-order approximation, but I am now using a more accurate method. Durability is now being based on the actual number of shots required to kill a given statline.

 

The net effect is that high hit point ships see an overall decrease to their durability compared to calculating it only based on average damage numbers. This is because the final "kill shot" never reflects the average damage number, since a ship with 1 hit point doesn't care if it takes 1 damage or 5. Lower hit point ships have more kill shots relative to their health, giving them an effective boost to overall durability. For example, a TIE Defender is slightly less durable than a pair of TIE Fighters, even though the Defender's has 3 shields + 3 hull vs 6 hull on the TIE Fighters.

 

The probability density function for the likelihood of exactly N number of shots killing the target is computed, so you get the entire curve, and then take the mean. Critical hits that do double damage are explicitly considered in the number of shots required to kill a target. Critical hits that do not do extra damage are weighted as one-third of a hit, resulting in the following two different critical hit weightings:

 

weighting #1: 2x damage only:    1 + 7/33 + (3/8)*2/33

weighting #2: All critical hits: 1 + 7/33 + (3/8)*2/33 + (1/3)*(33-7-2)/33

 

The average damage intake using each weighting is then calculated, and the ship's net durability is calculated as:

 

(mean rounds to destroy) * (avg damage intake w/ weighting #2) / (avg damage intake w/ weighting #1) 

 

All results are then normalized to a x/3/3/0 statline (standard TIE Fighter).

 

The following action economy and meta assumptions were used:

  • The attacker has no action 1/3 of the time, and focus 2/3 of the time.
  • The defender has focus 1/2 the time.
  • The range bins probabilities are [30% 45% 20% 5%] for [R1  R2  R3  R3+obstacle].
  • The attacker base attack dice is meta dependent, see below.

The number of attack dice was evaluated in three different "meta" environments:

[{2 attack dice} {3 attack dice} {4 attack dice} {Heavy Laser Cannon}]:

  • low attack meta:        [45%  45%   5%   5%]
  • "standard" attack meta: [35%  45%  10%  10%]
  • high attack meta:       [30%  40%  15%  15%]

These numbers are based on the current wave 4 meta and extrapolating into the anticipated wave 5 meta. The Heavy Laser Cannon shot will exclude all range effects except for range 3 through an obstacle, which still adds one die. It is assumed that the HLC will still have an alternative shot while in the range 1 bin.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Ship Durability
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   | normalized durability |    normalized std dev |
                   |    vs attack meta     |      vs attack meta   |
ship               |  low  |  std  | high  |  low  |  std  | high  |
IG-2000            | 2.506 | 2.482 | 2.464 | 0.384 | 0.382 | 0.381 |
YT-2400 (Hi D)     | 2.408 | 2.411 | 2.412 | 0.323 | 0.322 | 0.32  |
YT-2400            | 2.257 | 2.271 | 2.279 | 0.319 | 0.317 | 0.315 |
Firespray          | 2.232 | 2.248 | 2.258 | 0.32  | 0.318 | 0.316 |
Named YT-1300      | 2.141 | 2.192 | 2.226 | 0.252 | 0.251 | 0.25  |
VT-49              | 2.006 | 2.085 | 2.139 | 0.197 | 0.197 | 0.197 |
TIE Defender       | 1.925 | 1.91  | 1.898 | 0.437 | 0.435 | 0.433 |
ACD TIE Phantom    | 1.855 | 1.817 | 1.791 | 0.553 | 0.552 | 0.55  |
Lambda Shuttle     | 1.693 | 1.734 | 1.761 | 0.283 | 0.282 | 0.281 |
TIE Advanced (Hi D)| 1.796 | 1.772 | 1.754 | 0.482 | 0.479 | 0.477 |
ORS YT-1300        | 1.677 | 1.718 | 1.746 | 0.284 | 0.283 | 0.281 |
E-wing             | 1.652 | 1.639 | 1.629 | 0.472 | 0.47  | 0.467 |
TIE Advanced       | 1.617 | 1.607 | 1.6   | 0.475 | 0.472 | 0.469 |
StarViper          | 1.581 | 1.573 | 1.568 | 0.478 | 0.475 | 0.471 |
B-wing             | 1.395 | 1.429 | 1.452 | 0.311 | 0.31  | 0.309 |
Y-wing             | 1.362 | 1.397 | 1.422 | 0.314 | 0.313 | 0.311 |
TIE Bomber         | 1.34  | 1.357 | 1.369 | 0.407 | 0.403 | 0.401 |
A-wing             | 1.343 | 1.336 | 1.33  | 0.522 | 0.519 | 0.516 |
X-wing             | 1.188 | 1.202 | 1.21  | 0.435 | 0.431 | 0.428 |
HWK-290            | 1.164 | 1.178 | 1.189 | 0.438 | 0.434 | 0.43  |
Scyk               | 1.033 | 1.031 | 1.028 | 0.593 | 0.589 | 0.585 |
TIE Fighter        | 1     | 1     | 1     | 0.595 | 0.59  | 0.586 |
Z-95               | 0.988 | 1     | 1.008 | 0.478 | 0.475 | 0.472 |

 

Comments:

  • Ships with the "(Hi D)" flag are assumed to have a better defensive action economy, which is simulated by increasing the chance for defensive focus from 50% to 67%.
  • The normalized standard deviation is calculated as: (the standard deviation of probability density function of the shots required to kill the ship), divided by (the mean of the shots required to kill the ship).

 

 

For the meta assumptions you'll have to see the post.

 

Edited by FTS Gecko

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Fly defensively, don't joust with it. Utilize pincers and bait&switch strategies. Usually if a ship is already durable, you want to upgrade it to increase its offense. Defense should be used as a means of attack, not just for the sake of being defensive. "Cleverness has never been associated with long delays".

Edited by Tvboy

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