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Phillyraidrer215

Confusion over Deployment Card restrictions in Skirmish

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The book says that you may build up to 40 points with the following restrictions:

 

1 unique Deployment

2 Elite (red card) Deployment

4 grey card deployment 

 

So, in the case of AT-ST(red), if I were to field 2 AT-ST (red and Elite), could I also field General Weiss(red and Unique) as a 3rd AT-ST? All three cards are red, but Weiss is also unique...

 

And this is provided we are playing at 50 points.

Edited by Phillyraidrer215

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If you are not worried about points, I think you could play 2 AT-ST AND General Weiss.  General Weiss just also happens to be in an AT-ST, but that is not the name of the deployment card so they are different figures entirely. 

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The book says that you may build up to 40 points with the following restrictions:

 

1 unique Deployment

2 Elite (red card) Deployment

4 grey card deployment 

 

So, in the case of AT-ST(red), if I were to field 2 AT-ST (red and Elite), could I also field General Weiss(red and Unique) as a 3rd AT-ST? All three cards are red, but Weiss is also unique...

 

And this is provided we are playing at 50 points.

 

 

It's a max 1 of each unique Deployment

 

But even (as you mention yourself) ignoring the exceeding point total I would say that the fact that Weiss is also Elite along being uniques would make 2 x Elite AT-ST plus Weiss illegal

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The book says that you may build up to 40 points with the following restrictions:

 

1 unique Deployment

2 Elite (red card) Deployment

4 grey card deployment 

 

So, in the case of AT-ST(red), if I were to field 2 AT-ST (red and Elite), could I also field General Weiss(red and Unique) as a 3rd AT-ST? All three cards are red, but Weiss is also unique...

 

And this is provided we are playing at 50 points.

 

 

It's a max 1 of each unique Deployment

 

But even (as you mention yourself) ignoring the exceeding point total I would say that the fact that Weiss is also Elite along being uniques would make 2 x Elite AT-ST plus Weiss illegal

 

Why would it be illegal?

 

On p. 6 of the skirmish guide it says...

 

max of 1 of EACH unique deployment card.

max of 2 of EACH elite (red) deployment card.

max of 4 of EACH regular (gray) deployment card.

 

So, if you are not worried about poits, 1 Weiss and 2 AT-ST = 1 of EACH unique deployment card and 2 of EACH elite (red) deployment card.

 

You can have more than 2 elite/red cards in your squad, just not more than 2 of the SAME elite/red card in your squad.

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Guess never mind, in the campaign on pg 8 on component limitation its limited, but says nothing about skirmish. except

 

In a skirmish, a player can have a maximum of one of each unique deployment card in his army, two of each elite deployment card, and four of each regular deployment card.

 

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The book says that you may build up to 40 points with the following restrictions:

 

1 unique Deployment

2 Elite (red card) Deployment

4 grey card deployment 

 

So, in the case of AT-ST(red), if I were to field 2 AT-ST (red and Elite), could I also field General Weiss(red and Unique) as a 3rd AT-ST? All three cards are red, but Weiss is also unique...

 

And this is provided we are playing at 50 points.

 

 

It's a max 1 of each unique Deployment

 

But even (as you mention yourself) ignoring the exceeding point total I would say that the fact that Weiss is also Elite along being uniques would make 2 x Elite AT-ST plus Weiss illegal

 

by your  thinking you couldnt have Fenn and a Elite Trooper x2 in the same squad and we know thats not true.

Edited by Jonnyb815

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The book says that you may build up to 40 points with the following restrictions:

 

1 unique Deployment

2 Elite (red card) Deployment

4 grey card deployment 

 

So, in the case of AT-ST(red), if I were to field 2 AT-ST (red and Elite), could I also field General Weiss(red and Unique) as a 3rd AT-ST? All three cards are red, but Weiss is also unique...

 

And this is provided we are playing at 50 points.

 

 

It's a max 1 of each unique Deployment

 

But even (as you mention yourself) ignoring the exceeding point total I would say that the fact that Weiss is also Elite along being uniques would make 2 x Elite AT-ST plus Weiss illegal

by your  thinking you couldnt have Fenn and a Elite Trooper x2 in the same squad and we know thats not true.

Say what? I know you must be referring to or implying that I am "opposing " the notion of more than 2 Elites in a skirmish. I am not saying that at all. The reason I felt it might be wrong (besides severely violating the 40 points limit) was that it was 3 Elite AT-ST (of course with one of them actually commandeered by Gen. Weiss)

Anyways, I am in no way, shape or form and nor would I say that you're not allowed what you suggested

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well Weiss doesnt count as a Elite AT-ST. He is his own deployment card. AT-ST is not a key term so am not even sure why this is even a question.

 

I think - most importantly - the OP is simply wanting to play whatever they want.  If they're bending the 40 pt restriction, then I see no reason why (even if Weiss + 2 AT-ST were illegal) they wouldn't just do it, anyway.

 

Most importantly, if you're playing by the actual Skirmish restrictions then the square is illegal by point cost before anything else is even considered.  The type of deployment card doesn't matter because the point total is over.  If you're cool with upping the point total, I see no reason to not be cool with an all AT-ST squad.

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Well let's put this another way. Can you play a Royal Guard Champion and 2x elite Royal Guard? That's basically the same question and that one doesn't violate the points. To me, the answer is a straightforward "yes." Royal Guard Champion is a different name from Royal Guard. Similarly, General Weiss is a different name than AT-ST. The current squad building rules only restrict cards with the same names.

 

Also, I think adjusting point levels in games like this is different than ignoring restrictions like numbers of figures. Just because they want to play at 50 points instead of 40 doesn't mean they're wanting to play an anything-goes game. It's like playing at variable squad point levels in X-Wing. Just cause I want to play a 150 point game, does that mean I get to (or want to) ignore the restriction of one mod per ship? No. So I don't think the OP is trying to play "whatever they want."

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well Weiss doesnt count as a Elite AT-ST. He is his own deployment card. AT-ST is not a key term so am not even sure why this is even a question.

 

I think - most importantly - the OP is simply wanting to play whatever they want.  If they're bending the 40 pt restriction, then I see no reason why (even if Weiss + 2 AT-ST were illegal) they wouldn't just do it, anyway.

 

Most importantly, if you're playing by the actual Skirmish restrictions then the square is illegal by point cost before anything else is even considered.  The type of deployment card doesn't matter because the point total is over.  If you're cool with upping the point total, I see no reason to not be cool with an all AT-ST squad.

That is a very illogical argument.

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Well let's put this another way. Can you play a Royal Guard Champion and 2x elite Royal Guard? That's basically the same question and that one doesn't violate the points. To me, the answer is a straightforward "yes." Royal Guard Champion is a different name from Royal Guard. Similarly, General Weiss is a different name than AT-ST. The current squad building rules only restrict cards with the same names.

 

Also, I think adjusting point levels in games like this is different than ignoring restrictions like numbers of figures. Just because they want to play at 50 points instead of 40 doesn't mean they're wanting to play an anything-goes game. It's like playing at variable squad point levels in X-Wing. Just cause I want to play a 150 point game, does that mean I get to (or want to) ignore the restriction of one mod per ship? No. So I don't think the OP is trying to play "whatever they want."

 

 

Never mind. I realize I was wrong.

 

But in relation to the whole "Bending (as in severely ignoring) the point limit" I will say this:

 

In the example you put out with X-Wing I think most will/would agree that something VERY different happens as soon as you go past the 100 points limit. There MUST be a very good, tested and solid reason for the developers to choose this limit. And every ship, upgrade and ability is very much linked up to this limit as long as you're playing straight Dogfight. So pretending/saying that it doesn't change much in Skirmish is (IMO) flat out wrong.

 

But let me repent for having made such horrendous error as to think/write that Weiss might be considered aan Elite AT-ST. 

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Okay, I can see how you think that. You're right that the dynamics do change at different point limits. Still there is a difference between this game and X-Wing in that the X-Wing rules clear say that you and your opponent should agree upon a squad point limit before building squads ("players are welcome to choose any total"), whereas Imperial Assault just flat-out says 40 points. So while it is perfectly fine for X-Wing, I suppose I'm wrong about it being applicable to Imperial Assault.

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In pretty sure that the phrase about agreeing on a point limit between players in X-Wing is meant purely for a friendly casual home game while you're learning the game and just having fun. but either way: as soon as you go above any point cap with just 10-20 points in a low point squad building game such as X-Wing or IA you will see combos that won't happen normally.

Bottom line: once you've decided that you'll be playing let's say with 55 points then it's no longer "normal" skirmish

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In pretty sure that the phrase about agreeing on a point limit between players in X-Wing is meant purely for a friendly casual home game while you're learning the game and just having fun. but either way: as soon as you go above any point cap with just 10-20 points in a low point squad building game such as X-Wing or IA you will see combos that won't happen normally.

Bottom line: once you've decided that you'll be playing let's say with 55 points then it's no longer "normal" skirmish

Except that x-wing has multiple tournament rules in the tournament PDF for game sizes over 100points. The only thing significant about 100 points is that it is considered to be a "dog fight" tournament.

None of the tournament size options were listed in the core book for x-wing outside of 100 points. This does not mean the game is not a "normal" variant. Escalation games are very popular in the uk and furball games are all the rage in NZ right now.

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In pretty sure that the phrase about agreeing on a point limit between players in X-Wing is meant purely for a friendly casual home game while you're learning the game and just having fun. but either way: as soon as you go above any point cap with just 10-20 points in a low point squad building game such as X-Wing or IA you will see combos that won't happen normally.

Bottom line: once you've decided that you'll be playing let's say with 55 points then it's no longer "normal" skirmish

Except that x-wing has multiple tournament rules in the tournament PDF for game sizes over 100points. The only thing significant about 100 points is that it is considered to be a "dog fight" tournament.

None of the tournament size options were listed in the core book for x-wing outside of 100 points. This does not mean the game is not a "normal" variant. Escalation games are very popular in the uk and furball games are all the rage in NZ right now.

Never mind. Basically I believe that we aren't really disagreeing per se

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