Corran's Fat Friends

[Red Winter 381]

I've started a month of practicing for an upcoming tournament. There are two lists that I have been very keen to try out. One is Tango and Cash (Dash, Roark and 2 Z's). This is probably the "stronger" of the two on paper. However, the one I am more excited about because it is less in line with what is popular is this:

 

Corran (PtL, AdvS, R7-T1)

Porkins (Lone Wolf, R5-D8)

Mison (R7)

 

I played my initial "laboratory" game last night against a friend who is still relatively new to the game. Wanting to go up against a more common list, I built him a Phantom and mini-swarm:

 

Whisper (VI, FCS, ACD, Mara Jade) I would have provided him with a Rebel Captive, but I do not yet have one.

Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)

BSP

Academy

Academy

 

He made a single big mistake that I capitalized on, but I achieved what I wanted to in the test environment. That is, seeing exactly how these ships would fly, their cards interactions and what first turn deployment should look like.

 

My initial conclusions are the following:

 

1. Porkins is a great pilot. The ability to ignore stress and take actions after a K-turn is powerful. Paired with Lone Wolf, R5-D8 means that he can repair with some reliability and still have a pseudo action from the rerolls. He also gets a nice little defensive buff from the EPT.

 

2. Corran is also a great pilot. The key to flying him well is remembering that you don't have to use his ability every turn to get the most from him. The same goes for PtL. A lot of times the threat itself is a scary proposition and if you save it for that clutch moment, you won't be disappointed. R7-T1 was used a couple of times, both offensively, and allowed him to destroy two TIEs with range 1 shots.

 

3. Mison is good and paired with Corran helped to give the opposing player a difficult choice because neither ship is necessarily weaker on the defensive side. Mison's action economy is another added feature. In the aftermath of the game, I have been thinking about the utility in replacing him with two bandits and gaining a 1 point initiative bid with this list.

 

4. Deployment is another powerful tool toward helping with victory. Offsetting your ships slightly or pointing them in other directions can really fool an opponent into guessing what your intentions are. I have found that those first 3-4 turns of a game are crucial to winning. Gaining an advantage during deployment can be the difference between victory or defeat.

 

5. Initiative. In a meta that is dominated by high pilot skill ships, VI Whisper, it is not a big deal for me to strive for the bid. All the ships in this list are 8 or lower, which I know is probably going to be lower than my opponents. The great thing is, that is ok!

 

Overall, understanding how this list flies is going to be crucial to beating veteran Phantom players. I definitely don't think it is an impossible feat, although it will be a challenge. Adding a pair of Z's will probably help with the staying power and provide good cover for Corran as he leads the attack. I'm really happy with the surprise offered by pairing Porkins with Corran. I think they have the potential to be a great duo.

[Paulochromis 17]

I like the Corran list - will definitely try it out.

But I'm intrigued by the Tango & Cash list. Can you elaborate?

[Red Winter 381]

Tango and Cash is pretty simple.

Dash (PtL, title, HLC, Nien Nunb)

Roark (Ion)

Bandit

Bandit

My strategy behind this list involves and unorthodox deployment. Dash is deployed facing left or right of the table and will start the game by flying in a huge circle. Roark follows in the bubble providing coverage from the ion and giving Dash the first shot. The two bandits trail and pounce on ships aiming for the donut hole. By flying in a route around the asteroid and deploying non traditionally, I want to draw enemy formations out over the rocks or out of position. Nien I think is key because Dash is completely unpredictable with him. He doesn't need to rely on Roark to be effective, so nien is clutch for giving him room to move.

I think it has legs. We will see.

[Red Winter 381]

Last night I played the second "laboratory" game with the Corran's Fat Friends list. Since the previous game, I had decided to tweak the list to add a little more survivability and flexibility. This meant getting rid of Tarn. Last night, I played with the following version of my list:

 

Corran (PtL, R7T1, Sensor Jammer)

Porkins (Lone Wolf, R5D8)

Bandit

Bandit

 

Despite my friend's newness to the game, he is growing by leaps and bounds. Flying "Whisper" is actually helping in this regard, because he has to quickly understand a lot about maneuver to get the most out of the Phantom. His flying was good enough that I was on my toes through much of the game as I chose maneuvers. It's good preparation for when I face the combination of experience and the Phantom mini-swarm.

 

I continue to believe that first turn deployment is key to gaining a psychological and tactical edge. Most people will deploy their ships to fly right at each other for the first joust. It's simple and human nature. I think there is a lot to be gained by deploying in an unorthodox way. It definitely helps to obscure what your opening intent is.

 

Conclusions from the second math:

 

1. This four ship list is strong and will require attention to fly well. It does lack in PS, but I'm ok with that since I'll probably lose the initiative bid and my maneuvers are meant to set up key shots. Coordinating Corran and the Z's is a better combo than having Tarn on the field.

 

2. R5D8 is very useful. Even more so with an EPT that provides pseudo focus like Lone Wolf. He kept Porkins in the fight.

 

3. Lone Wolf is another great part of Porkins. It encourages me to use him as a flanker, but also encourages the enemy to deploy an element of his forces to answer Porkins. That provides an opening that my Corran element can capitalize on.

 

4. Timing is key. It is good to be picky with "may" abilities. Corran's ability and PtL are examples of this. By carefully choosing when to use them, a player can really get great mileage and use the natural flow of the game as an asset.

 

5. The Phantom is a difficult opponent, but practice makes the Phantom predictable, just like any other ship in this game.

 

The tournament that is coming up is not an official championship. It affords a perfect opportunity to use this list in it without losing out on a potential qualifier for this year. Besides, I'm loving it.

[shifty33 3]

I like the idea but I don't think lone wolf works with r5-d8 since lone wold says when attacking or defending re roll a blank. And since r5 is an action and your not attacking or defending I don't think u would get the re roll.

Edited January 14, 2015 by shifty33

[Red Winter 381]

You're correct, Shifty. I don't use it for that reason though. Porkins can operate pretty well on his own and since that's a part of my plan, Lone Wolf is the better EPT over Predator.

[Khyros 4,236]

I've gone up against Luke w/ LW, R5P9, SU several times recently, and it's a deadly ship.  Well, it's hard to kill at least.  If you drop the SU from him, he's only 2 points more than your Porkins and will give you a lot more mileage.  If he rolls a blank on defense, he rerolls from LW.  If he rolls a focus, he changes it to an evade from Luke's ability.  So he frequently ends with 2 evades on every attack without spending his focus, which he uses to regen a shield in case something did get through.  

I don't particularly like your Porkins' build because the only way to use his ability is either via your opponent, or a 4K.  But that's just my opinion.  Also, R2D2 > Sensor Jammer imo on Corran, especially if you're putting PTL on him and doing greens anyways.  Now you PTL to take an evade action, and a green to regen a shield, and you've prevented 2 damage every turn.  Not to mention you still have 3 agility to avoid quite a bit more.  

 

If you made those changes, you're left with 1 point, that could either be an init bid, a switch to Tarn w/ R7, or upgrading a bandit to a tala (I would not recommend this).  I would probably go with either Tarn or the init bid.  Tarn gives you 3 ships that your opponent doesn't want hanging around in the end game.  But the init bid gives you two pawns that can do over all more damage (and if you present them as easy shots, they'll help bring Corran and Luke into the end game).  

[shifty33 3]

Aaaa ic your point. I would still take pred with him tho yea lone wolf if a little more defensive but I'm gunna guess most of the time his actions with be r5 to heal up which mean you won't have a focus. And basicly with lone wolf u can only re roll blanks so if an eye come's up pretty much a blank lol. Not saying lone is bad I love that card use it all the time. But if u are having good success with lone wolf keep on going with it.

[Red Winter 381]

Khyros, I'm intrigued by the Skywalker idea. I'll test it out in my next "lab" game. I go R7T1 because he gives me great defensive and offensive maneuver options on Corran. With Skywalker in, I removed Jammer in favor of FCS for the second shot.

[Red Winter 381]

I played a game last night with Luke Skywalker instead of Porkins. It was against a modified Fat Han. Overall, not a difficult matchup for me. Turn three, four and five, the Falcon got shot up pretty badly and destroyed. I didn't get much out of Luke in this setup though, but that has more to do with him not being a real target for my opponent for most of the game. Aesthetically I am still leaning toward Porkins with a couple of different upgrades. The difference between PS 7 and 8 in this meta isn't that significant and I like the fact that Porkins is a less popular pilot on a less popular ship. Plus, he has a lot of flexibility.

The next iteration of this list is going to be:

Corran (PtL, FCS, R2D2)

Porkins (PtL, R5D8)

Bandit

Bandit

This offers two good aces who both have good regenerative qualities. Porkins is no longer constrained by Lone Wolf's limitations either. In setup, depending on the opponent, I will be able to deploy to handle a variety of enemy formations. I found tht FCS in my previous game did a lot to enhance Corran's incredible pilot ability.

After this test, I'll probably switch out Porkins for Wedge (Predator).

More to come.

[Red Winter 381]

I have yet to test the latest iteration, but using Skywalker made me start thinking about my old favorite pilot: Wedge Antilles. I can adapt the list to run the following:

 

Corran (PtL, FCS, R5P9 or R2F2)

Wedge (VI, R7T1)

Bandit

Bandit

 

The list ups the damage output and offers good defensive bonuses to both Corran, my centerpiece, and Wedge with an option to boost. More importantly, at PS11, Wedge will have the chance to target the elusive Phantom. With a target lock and a potential boost into range one, this is a decent option for either destroying or crippling a Phantom (even a Z can hit a cloaked Phantom). Conversely, a Phantom that outmaneuvers me will find that Wedge isn't always where he should be with a defensive boost.

 

I'm quite confident that once a list loses a Phantom, Corran will be able to handle the rest.

 

Admittedly, this list is not as resilient as the one with Porkins. There are not as many good options for regeneration. Though It does have a better answer for the high PS meta.

[Red Winter 381]

This weekend I got a solid 1v1 in against a veteran "Whisper" flier at the LGS. It gave me a chance to bring out the big guns and try the Wedge tweak for my Corran's Fat Friends list. I opted to fly:

 

Corran (PtL, FCS, R5P9)

Wedge (VI, R7T1)

Bandit

Bandit

 

My opponent flew:

 

"Whisper" (VI, FCS, Gunner)

Rexlar (Predator)

Dark Curse

 

I knew that victory here depended on me being able to take out Whisper. Nothing else really mattered. After a couple of turns of very careful maneuvering and no shooting, Wedge had his first range 3 shot on a decloake Whisper. Two hits and a crit later, Whisper rolled two evades and escaped relatively unscathed while the return round of shooting disabled Wedge's pilot ability and made his hard turns red! Poor exchange, but I know this will balance out over games.

 

Corran was able to down Whisper in the following turn, but had to burn his second shot to do so. After that I made a few knuckle head mistakes that nearly cost me the game until, by dumb luck, I blocked Rexlar off the table. It was sheer, dumb luck! I can't really feel good about the game because of it, but I still learned quite a bit more about Corran's effectiveness and a further tweak to Wedge.

 

Conclusions:

 

1. I believe R5P9 is a superior choice on Corran versus R2D2. With PtL, Corran can focus and evade on his down turns and still use the full capability of his dial. This can help to ensure that he has a focus to regenerate. The evade really helps here. FCS is almost an auto-include for me since that last shot really needs a multiplier to make the most of it.

2. PtL is another auto-include for me in this list. Corran has so many actions that you really want to be able to take advantage of them. PtL lets you do this and stress is not that big of a deal for Corran (IMO).

3. Wedge is going to lose R7T1 in favor of R3A2. In the event of a poor trade like the one I had above, putting a stress on Whisper is going to enable the rest of my squad to finish him off. If not, I know where he is going to end up next turn. All in all, that will probably be the last iteration of Wedge for the test environment.

4. After the glory of not having to worry about initiative or pilot skill (Wedge), using Porkins is becoming a tougher choice. I still want to try my regenerative list, but that may wait for a few more games.

[gambit1977 69]

Heres one ive been wanting to run

Wes vi r3a2 hull

Horn r2d2 fcs

Bandit X2

100 points

Wes shoots early clearimg tokens freeing horn and bandits to clean up. Wes also give stress to limit movement options.

[Khyros 4,236]

@Red Winter - If you're using PTL + R5-P9, you're spending 6 points on the combo to regen a shield (via the focus token as one action) and evade a damage (via the evade action).  However, the next turn you're doing a green maneuver to clear the stress you just received, so you don't have full access to your dial.  Furthermore, you're susceptible to rebel captive and Flechettes to double stress you.

 

On the contary, if you're just equipping R2D2, you're spending 4 points to regen a shield (via a green), and evade a damage (via the evade action).  The next turn you're doing a green to activate R2D2 to regen the shield, so you dont' have full access to your dial.  HOWEVER, you're not actively stressed at this point, and you can choose to do something besides a green if it would be more advantageous to have your full dial instead of a shield.

 

But when R2D2 is COUPLED with PTL, each time you PTL, you have to do a green afterwards to clear the stress.  At this point, you activate R2D2, for really no additional cost.  As such, you can F+E, use both tokens for defense, and then STILL regen a shield.  For 1 extra point, this is a much better combination.

 

Also, I totally agree that FCS is awesome.  Especially in this day and age of big. fat. ships.  Who needs predator for 3 points when you have a perma TL for 2 points =P.

[Red Winter 381]

Alright, the saga continues.

I played two matches against a friend last night. Both times we fielded the same list. Both times I came away with a win, the second game was much tougher than the first but I still finished with Corran and a Bandit.

 

My list:

Wedge (VI, R3A2)

Corran (PtL, FCS, R2D2)

Bandit

Bandit

 

Opponent:

Whisper (VI, FCS, ACD, Mara Jade)

Carnor Jax (HU, TC, PtL, RGT)

Academy

Academy

 

Conclusions:

1. Carnor can be a real ball buster and has the potential to significantly up the Phantom's offensive game. The added hull is a good boon to his surviveability.

 

2. Wedge absolutely needs a good alpha on Whisper to stay in the game. Unfortunately, that is a little to closely tied to dice. The new setup will have him rocking Predator and R3A2.

 

3. I'm going to try Corran next without PtL. With VI, this will allow both him and Wedge to have the potential first shots on a decloaked whisper. Depending on the context, withstanding a double tap from Corran and an attack from Wedge is a risky proposition for the Phantom.

 

4. Beyond that, I like the Bandits. They always seem to come through in one way or another. I Just wish I had the points to spare to include Dutch w/ an ion turret.

[Red Winter 381]

After many rounds of testing, I've found myself back where I started. For the tournament this weekend, it looks like Corran, Wedge and the Bandits are going to make a showing. I've flown this list in several iterations, but also a four Xwing list and Ywing. I just can't bring myself to give up the firepower and Pilot Skill that Corran's Buddies have to offer.

 

The biggest risk with this list is that it will, in large part, depend on the first pass against a Phantom to hit its stride. Wedge needs to land some hits, deal the stress, but I also need Corran or the two Bandits to be in position to followup. Best case scenario, we wipe the Phantom. Worst case, it's left on one HP.

[Red Winter 381]

Corran's Buddies performed admirably today. They helped me walk away with the win at a smallish 10 person, 3 swiss round tournament. The funny thing was I didn't even cross a Phantom. There were two players who brought a Whisper and Echo, but as it would have it, I played against fellow Rebels until the final round.

 

For the most part I was pitted against large ships. One list featured a Fat Han and HLC Fringer, another was Super Dash and Corran. The final opponent flew a Kenkirk and TIE escort list. The thing that impressed me about the list was the ability to reduce large vessels fairly quickly. As long as VIP targets were eliminated early, Corran could press the advantage to the end.

 

Next up is the store championship in two weeks, but I don't know if I'll keep using this list or let Dash sweep me off my feet. If any of you are interested in running something that is not quite in keeping with the meta, I highly recommend this one. Be warned though, it requires good flying and I would rate it as a "hard" but rewarding list.

 

Wedge (R3A2, VI)

Corran (PtL, R2D2, FCS)

Bandit

Bandit

[jberrysf 2]

This is really the kind of list I like to run. I'm excited to hear that you had so much success with it. I sadly dont have a stressbot and I am looking to replicate your list.

 

My 2 thoughts are to replace the R3a2 with Flechette Torps  or to give up 2 points for the initiative bid. The problem with the torpedoes is that it's a one time thing AND it doesn't translate to any large ships. I basically HAVE to wait until I've reduced Dash, Han or the Decimator to 5 hull to shoot it off.

 

Or I can go 98 points for initiative.

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 9, 2015 by jberrysf

[Red Winter 381]

Well if you don't have R3A2, there are a couple of options. In some ways, it may be a benefit for you since any of these options will leave Wedge (or his stand in) free from Stress. I don't think R3A2 is a necessity by all means, but he is incredibly useful in a Phantom rich environment. At the end of the day, your flying is what will win you the game against ships with cloak.

 

Alright, enough of that. If you are going to fly Wedge without R3A2, I would recommend dropping Veteran Instincts as well. VI is on him to give him the ability to stress trap a Phantom, hoping that Corran or the two Bandits can finish off what he started. Without the stress trap, it would be better to fit him with an upgrade that is going to up his offense, defense or both.

 

With that in mind, there are several options. Always a standby, Push the Limit is excellent for doing all of the above for Wedge. It makes him hit hard and gives a soft defensive bonus. Predator gives him solid offense even when stressed. Swarm Tactics and a 99 initiative bid can help land two attacks before a Phantom can cloak. Decoy can be a fun alternative (especially considering Corran's effectiveness at burst damage).

 

The only thing that prevents me from recommending Flechettes in this example is that they are firing naked against the Phantom. The stress will get through, but it comes down to a roll of the dice for damage. That's not necessarily terrible, but I like to have my rerolls reserved for it.

 

Of course, you can play around with Corran too. I'm too in love with PtL on him though. It really makes a difference, especially for closing the game.

[jberrysf 2]

Well I'[m not doing anything to Corran. The synergy with R2D2 and PtL is too terrific, as is FCS. 

 

Swarm Tactics was not something I had thought about. It is definitely a useful one to have, being able to bring Corran up to PS 9, but even at 99, I'm worried to lose that initiative bid. VI Whisper, while easier to block and predict than Echo, will still potentially be recloaking before I get to shoot.

 

Here's a different take I was playing with, that gets at a similar regen ability with light Biggs-ishness, 3 action Corran and still nets up on PS.

Corran - VI, EI, R7T1 - 42

Wedge - Draw their Fire, R2D2 - 34

2x Bandits

 

I've yet to decide what I'm playing at the LGS tonight...

[jberrysf 2]

Ran the alternative list (Corran with EI and VI) last night and had great success! 

 

Round 1 was against a 2 sigma squadron, Echo list and I managed to get Echo on the very first pass. I then gave up the bandits and ended up knocking out the first sigma right before time was called. This list felt good.

 

Round 2 I faced a 5 A wing w/ PTL miniswarm. I drew first blood and lost a bandit in return. I then managed to get a second a wing really quickly and still had full shields on the Aces with a 3 on 3. Time ran out and we called it, but the list still performed uber well. I think I would like to have the stressbot on Wedge or FCS on Corran, but this was still quite saucy.

[Red Winter 381]

Your iteration of the list is going to play slightly differently, but if you have a strategy that works and fly well, no problem! Wedge and Corran are some of the hardest hitting ships out there. Stressbot isn't really necessary against Echo, but it could throw some wretches into the 5 Awing list. I'd hazard a guess that you would have quickly cleaned that up if you had more time.

[chrisrivers 122]

I wonder how Wes would work in place of Wedge. His token stripping might be useful.

[Red Winter 381]

Wes is also a good option. While he doesn't pack as much of a punch, he has a great ability that helps the rest of his squad. I'd counter with, "his token stripping is ALWAYS useful!"

[chrisrivers 122]

Wes is also a good option. While he doesn't pack as much of a punch, he has a great ability that helps the rest of his squad. I'd counter with, "his token stripping is ALWAYS useful!"

True, and his ability is useful against Decimators also, while Wedge's is wasted (something I think needs errata).