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Gibarian

Have you ever seen a converted shup actually get banned from competitive play?

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Something else I noticed at the tourney.. each of my opponents, either, handed me a sheet with their list, or told me what they were using... my list was easy, 3 ships no upgrades.

Edited by oneway

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My scenario so far has been the most likely to happen.  Using a RGI mini to represent FEL or anyother named 181st OR using a 181st Interceptor to represent ALPHAS, AVENGERS, or RGI.  Non-IMP player sees the minis with special paint jobs, turns and looks at IMP player and asks "Standard RGI?"  IMP player just nods while not directly looking.  Player asking the question will ether roll with the answer they got or look closer at the minis.

 

It's not likely at all. Even if you do assume that interceptor paint jobs match their cards (they don't necessarily) a red could be RGP, Carnor or Kir. A 181st could be Saber, Fel, Phennir, Cowall, Lorrir or even Wrath. Generics could be anything. They'll then notice the activation order is off, or the giant pilot skill letter on the base doesn't match up with what they think it is. Everyone looks at the bases at some point. You can also see their cards opposite from you at a glance. I find it hard to believe that you don't look at your opponent's squad to see what pilots and upgrades they've got before the game.

 

If you somehow manage to lose from deciding that that interceptor had to be an Alpha because there was no red on it and managed to go the whole game without bothering to glance at the base then you deserve to lose.

 

Plus the example doesn't work anyway because you can repaint ships however you like. All three official interceptor repaints are legal for any TIE interceptor as are all the infinite possible unofficial repaints.  There's nothing deceptive about running Fel in a red interceptor.

 

 

But in my scenario the person is asking what the mini is supossed to be ether because their view of the base is blocked OR to far away for them too see. 

 

I also pointed out for the most part the deception would only work for turn 0 and or 1 and thats all that it needs to effect to have caused damage.

 

One rule that needs to be added is that ships from a named squadron that have a mini that was created for them with their squadron colors can only use that mini or a custom.  That custom is not allowed to look like anyother named squadron that exists.

 

It shouldnt be allowed for 181st to use RG nor alpha and avenger allowed to use 181st minis .  Same with B-Wing Dagger squadron.

 

It doesnt matter if for now swaping the minis are legal.  If you see some pull out RGI out of their case and you dont see the bases and you ask what they are and you are told they are just RGI when they really are FEL and others it will effect the game till at the least turn 1.  Even during turn Zero if you find out what it really is the damage has been done.  Fel may be in a less guarded spot than normal.  If you knew it was Fel you might have put more forces in that area to kill him faster.

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If it's the only ships you have.. then you have to use what you have.. like I said earlier, one guy only had 2 imp aces and flew a 4 RGI list.. he used both ships from the pack.. no one had issues, and the games went off with out anyone being bothered or giving him grief.. had I had my other ships with, I would have offered him 2 of my RGP ships to use, but it wouldn't have mattered.. he showed everyone what he had and we had a great tourney...

Maybe I just game in a more tolerant area but all these issues people seem to have with mod'd ships... I find .... petty.. not everyone can afford the expansions to have 4 or 5 of everything, nor might they want that many.. how many people are going to repaint a Y wing to use in their S&V lists.. (big shocked face) that could be a rebel Y wing.. how dare you!!!!

Some people have a knack, or talent for repaints and mods.. instead if whining.. "TO.. he has a mod'd ship with a cool paint job and I'm jealous.. so DQ him..." and appreciate the work some one has done.. and if you arent there to have fun... winning is just part of it.. then stay home, I dont wanna see your unsportsmanlike behind in my game store..

In my worse game yesterday, I still had fun.. even though I ended up on asteroids more times that I care to mention.. it sucks having no shot, and getting shot at.

And I'll reiterate.. the TO told me specifically, the only thing that matters is the base, and that he would give a warning to the person that complained about a ships mod or paint job... works for me.

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If it's the only ships you have.. then you have to use what you have.. like I said earlier, one guy only had 2 imp aces and flew a 4 RGI list.. he used both ships from the pack.. no one had issues, and the games went off with out anyone being bothered or giving him grief.. had I had my other ships with, I would have offered him 2 of my RGP ships to use, but it wouldn't have mattered.. he showed everyone what he had and we had a great tourney..

Yes but the player your talikng about wasn't trying to be sneeky. If they had done what I wrote in my last two posts they could havegotten away with illegal actions during turn zero and maybe turn 1. They could get away with longer depending on what the are fighting, whatelse makes up their forces and when the enemy does get a good look at the base.

After that it comes down to a diffrent type of deception. Lying to the judge, ether making it look like what has transpired is a misunderstanding OR that the guy that called over the judge is a sore loser trying to win on a technica issue.

I can't agree with the mixing of named squadron pieces using diffrent named squadron minis. If they need more to rep a named squadron but they don't have enough they should repaint the other minis to match that namedsquadron or repaint all of them with a custom paint job that doesn't look like a diffrent named squadron that is used by the same craft type. Or buy more of that type.

Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

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If it's the only ships you have.. then you have to use what you have.. like I said earlier, one guy only had 2 imp aces and flew a 4 RGI list.. he used both ships from the pack.. no one had issues, and the games went off with out anyone being bothered or giving him grief..

 

As far as FFG are concerned, the 181st Interceptor and the Royal Guard Interceptor are all TIE interceptor repaints. They're legally the same model and any can be used for any TIE interceptor. Modelwise they're all TIE interceptors, not different ships. To rule them different is to throw the entirety of repainting into confusion and would just be cash gouging in the worst degree.

 

 

But in my scenario the person is asking what the mini is supossed to be ether because their view of the base is blocked OR to far away for them too see.

 

You're suggesting someone would play a tournament game without looking at the opponent's squad. That's just plain silly.

 

If you knew it was Fel you might have put more forces in that area to kill him faster.

 

You know it's Fel because you know what your opponent is flying because you looked at their list. How else are you to know which pilots they're using and which upgrade cards they're using?

 

 

It shouldnt be allowed for 181st to use RG nor alpha and avenger allowed to use 181st minis .  Same with B-Wing Dagger squadron.

 

So I can fly Fel in a bright pink sloppy repaint done by a five year old but I can't fly him in an official miniature of his ship I paid for?

 

So if I want to fly the four Dagger Squadron Pilots I got from B-wing blisters I have to buy four copies of Rebel Aces now?

And if I just have a TIE interceptor blister four out of the six pilots are illegal unless I buy Imperial Aces?

 

Will my copies of Cracken and Lieutenant Blount become illegal if FFG ever releases a red striped Z-95?

 

Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

That's the single most daft thing I've heard in the last three years, to the point where I'm not sure it's true (at least on a wide scale). Your opponent is legally allowed to vandalise your miniatures? Does he get to chew them too? D:

Edited by TIE Pilot

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Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

 

 

... :huh: This is either a bald-faced lie or you play with some seriously strange houserules, I've played both games (battletech for a long time) and have NEVER seen/read/heard of any rule like that.

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If it's the only ships you have.. then you have to use what you have.. like I said earlier, one guy only had 2 imp aces and flew a 4 RGI list.. he used both ships from the pack.. no one had issues, and the games went off with out anyone being bothered or giving him grief..

 

As far as FFG are concerned, the 181st Interceptor and the Royal Guard Interceptor are all TIE interceptor repaints. They're legally the same model and any can be used for any TIE interceptor. Modelwise they're all TIE interceptors, not different ships. To rule them different is to throw the entirety of repainting into confusion and would just be cash gouging in the worst degree.

 

 

But in my scenario the person is asking what the mini is supossed to be ether because their view of the base is blocked OR to far away for them too see.

 

You're suggesting someone would play a tournament game without looking at the opponent's squad. That's just plain silly.

 

If you knew it was Fel you might have put more forces in that area to kill him faster.

 

You know it's Fel because you know what your opponent is flying because you looked at their list. How else are you to know which pilots they're using and which upgrade cards they're using?

 

 

It shouldnt be allowed for 181st to use RG nor alpha and avenger allowed to use 181st minis .  Same with B-Wing Dagger squadron.

 

So I can fly Fel in a bright pink sloppy repaint done by a five year old but I can't fly him in an official miniature of his ship I paid for?

 

So if I want to fly the four Dagger Squadron Pilots I got from B-wing blisters I have to buy four copies of Rebel Aces now?

And if I just have a TIE interceptor blister four out of the six pilots are illegal unless I buy Imperial Aces?

 

Will my copies of Cracken and Lieutenant Blount become illegal if FFG ever releases a red striped Z-95?

 

Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

That's the single most daft thing I've heard in the last three years, to the point where I'm not sure it's true (at least on a wide scale). Your opponent is legally allowed to vandalise your miniatures? Does he get to chew them too? D:

 

 

 

 

Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

 

 

... :huh: This is either a bald-faced lie or you play with some seriously strange houserules, I've played both games (battletech for a long time) and have NEVER seen/read/heard of any rule like that.

 

@TIEPILOT

 

@:First responce: Yes and?

 

@:Seconed responce: Whats so silly about it?  If their goal is to decive the other player they will make sure you dont get a look see at their cards or bases, esp their more important ones, as long as they can.  They would also give a verbal responce that is deceptive over letting you see the plates or cards as long as they can.  Hence why at best the victim wont know something is wrong till turn 1 when the damage has already been done.

 

Unless the victim plans to just rip open the liars mini case right as they come too the table and look at their minis they wont know something is wrong till possible turn zero at best.

 

@:Third  Oops I missplaced my written list as I was packing my gear up.  IM using 4 Royal Guard Interceptors btw  = )

 

@4A: Yes thats how I see it.  Avenger, Alpha, 181st, RG have a exact look and it should never be mismatched between each other. 

 

@4B: Yes you must buy 4 Reb Aces or just paint 4 blues the best you can to llok like daggers.

 

@4C: Yes you can buy as many as you like and just paint them too be 181st or buy 3-6 IMP aces.

 

@4D: Yes same solution above I wrote would fix the problem OR you can just make a custom fleet and not bother buying more of that same type of mini unless you just need more.

 

@5:  Its not your ship anymore if they catch that hulk on table (page 66).  And yes they can mod it if they end up getting upgrades during a campaign.  Depending on the rules you may never have too worry about that though.  Humans can only use human ships, orks can only use ork ships and humanship if they equal the points or less of ships orks already have.  Eldar can only have eldar craft except craftworlds, nercons can only have nercon ships, Tau r just like Orks,  nids can have everyone ship.  Even then on page 148 as well as page 12 of another book the above can be made moot even nids can be taken over, just not in a normal way. 

 

on page 54 it suggests how to paint your sep squd to keep them uniform.

 

 

@corsair117: Ok...  Ether you havent played BT, or you play that Darkage clix stuff, or you only play with cardboard minis, or you never been in a situation were you needed a new mech/mechs but you TRULY KILLED every enemy mech, or you didnt have techs trained well enough for major salvage, or your a I.S. force fighting claners when at a time all you could do is salvage parts not repair a whole omnimech, or your a claner fighting I.S. and dont waste your time rebuilding trash since you got omnimechs which are very easy to keep fighting in any campaign, or your only using level 1 rules (IVE only ever used level 3 rules), you dont have the money to capture and repair a new mech, or you flat out never lost your mech and you never needed to take your enemies mech.

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Funny thing is.. I like to run an all red squad.. so I have used my red (royal guard repaint) Advanced.. and 3 alphas which were three royal guard ties.. but.. casual game and I made sure my opponent knew what I was flying..

So maybe we are talking intent then.. I thonk most of the dishonest folks would be well known, unless they are new to an area.. just make sure you double check their sheet.. and if they forgot it.. take a look at what they have on the table, and if anything deviates from that.. Question them... it seems simple to me..

Seems someone in my tourney didn't realize when you placed ships on the table during the set up phase, that you set them withIN a range one placimg.. when I asked him about it, I just assumed it was an oversight.. he seemed taken back by my question, and when I explained he should be setting up within range one of the edge he seemed still a little confused because, I guess, his friends always set up range one, into the 2 range.. so right on the line, it just looked odd to me.. the TO happened to be standing right next to us and gave his agreement to my comments so far.. I wasn't irate or a jerk, just correcting a slight difference in set up than he was used to..

I'd had someone do that before too and found itnodd.. is it a casual ruling? I haven't heard of it, and typically use tourney rules for all games.. that's just what we do here, others may not, and that's fine...

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Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

 

 

... :huh: This is either a bald-faced lie or you play with some seriously strange houserules, I've played both games (battletech for a long time) and have NEVER seen/read/heard of any rule like that.

 

Then how do you do battelfield salvaging? A mech gets destroyed and then you smash the mini with a hammer and the winner gets all the bits that are stil ok so he can modify his other mechs? :)

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This situation boggles my mind.. if someone took my miniatures, I'd smack em up side the head.. so I think for my solution I'd just buy new ships, or piecemeal a miniature together to represent my salvaged craft/parts.. and I'd never sign up to a game where I could lose my entire force due to a total loss of the game.. I'd be out money for the models, and someone would be feeling my ire... so I guess this one makes me wonder.. who does that.. to me it's idiotic..

I used to play Battleteck years ago, actually played Battledroids first. Lol. Then helped write rules for battletech as well.. I dont remember letting anyone take my models at the end of a game...

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Well... that base looks a little to big, so, no it won't work... also.. not an official model from FFG ... all mine are official models from them, even the YT 1300 in my basement getting seriously overhauled, when I'm not neglecting it.. I should just offer money to someone to fix my mess with it.. lol

Why would you assume that would be ok... a red TIE squint, is still a squint... and I'll tell you just what I have on it, and will show you my list if asked, or I might just hand you it and let you read it. I know not everyone is honest, but if someone tried to pull a fast one, I'm sure they'd get banned from future events.. I'm not one to risk losing friends over a game..

Now... if I was teaching young kids (6-8 or 9) then I just might use that lego ship, because I'd have spent a few minutes before the game helping them build their ships and hopefully get them really involved in the game, and when they are a little more responsible, I might then shift to official models and see what they think..

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Guys, specifically @TIE Pilot, you seem to be talking as though the only issue is people being unable to tell ships apart when they study each one carefully.  That's not the issue.  The issue is the the mental map of the game in your head which is adjusted and reinforced every time you see the table, even the bits in the periphery of your vision.  If a ship is similar to another ship this can mess up the map in your head, and anybody who's ever forgotten which ship had which upgrade knows how bad these mistakes can be, so we don't need to be introducing any more of them.

 

Also, you could totally argue that rotating a ship is changing the shape, as you could define the shape as including the base, or argue that the shape is relative.  As an example of the importance of orientation: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3411910/Rothko-art-hung-wrong-way-round-in-exhibition.html. Now, I'm not saying I'd argue this (I've rotated three of my own B-Wings (as well as many turrets, which is definitely changing the shape)), but somebody could.

Edited by mazz0

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@:Seconed responce: Whats so silly about it?  If their goal is to decive the other player they will make sure you dont get a look see at their cards or bases, esp their more important ones, as long as they can.  They would also give a verbal responce that is deceptive over letting you see the plates or cards as long as they can.  Hence why at best the victim wont know something is wrong till turn 1 when the damage has already been done.

 

Unless the victim plans to just rip open the liars mini case right as they come too the table and look at their minis they wont know something is wrong till possible turn zero at best.

 

I don't believe you've played a single game, scenarios possibly aside, without looking at the opponent's ship and upgrade cards before you start. It's laughable to suggest you begin a standard game without knowing what your opponent is flying and what upgrades they have equipped (by looking at cards) and which model is which ship (by looking at bases).

 

Guys, specifically @TIE Pilot, you seem to be talking as though the only issue is people being unable to tell ships apart when they study each one carefully.  That's not the issue.  The issue is the the mental map of the game in your head which is adjusted and reinforced every time you see the table, even the bits in the periphery of your vision.  If a ship is similar to another ship this can mess up the map in your head, and anybody who's ever forgotten which ship had which upgrade knows how bad these mistakes can be, so we don't need to be introducing any more of them.

 

I'm saying it's silly to suggest that people just look at the model to tell what a ship is throughout the entire match. There is not a single ship in the 100pt game where you know what it is just from the model. Not one. Everybody, consciously or not, will look at the bases and the opponent's cards at least once in normal play.

 

You know Soontir's in a red interceptor at the start of the game. You're not going to suddenly assume he's in a bloodstripe after you gain that information. You're not going to mix up a closed s-foil X-wing with a Z-95 unless you have severe eyesight impairments because they look different.

 

 

Also, you could totally argue that rotating a ship is changing the shape, as you could define the shape as including the base , or argue that the shape is relative.  As an example of the importance of orientation: Now, I'm not saying I'd argue this (I've rotated three of my own B-Wings (as well as many turrets, which is definitely changing the shape)), but somebody could.

FFG explicitly allows magnet mounting.

 

@4A: Yes thats how I see it.  Avenger, Alpha, 181st, RG have a exact look and it should never be mismatched between each other. 

 

@4B: Yes you must buy 4 Reb Aces or just paint 4 blues the best you can to llok like daggers.

 

@4C: Yes you can buy as many as you like and just paint them too be 181st or buy 3-6 IMP aces.

 

Seriously?

 

If FFG demanded that after the release of Rebel Aces all Dagger Squadron Pilots became illegal unless you bought that many Rebel Aces, or Soontir Fel became illegal unless you bought Imperial Aces they'd be very unpopular very fast. They'd outright hemmorage players.

 

Incidentally, you do realise Blue Squadron Pilots don't have a released mini? They're blue. The B-wing blister paintjob is the one on the Keyan, Ibitisam and Ten Numb artwork.

 

Maybe in your little world of infinite funds and painting mastery this makes sense but to the rest of us that'd just be severe price gouging from FFG.

Edited by TIE Pilot

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I'm saying it's silly to suggest that people just look at the model to tell what a ship is throughout the entire match. There is not a single ship in the 100pt game where you know what it is just from the model. Not one. Everybody, consciously or not, will look at the bases and the opponent's cards at least once in normal play.

 

You know Soontir's in a red interceptor at the start of the game. You're not going to suddenly assume he's in a bloodstripe after you gain that information. You're not going to mix up a closed s-foil X-wing with a Z-95 unless you have severe eyesight impairments because they look different.

 

And I'm saying that's not the only thing that matters.  I agree, you can tell ships apart by looking at them carefully, I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but that has nothing to do with the problem I described.

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It has everything to do with it.

 

The premise is people confusing one ship with another based on the models and the premise is nonsense.

 

You're not telling ships apart by "careful study", you know which ship is which. You talk of a mental map of the field being screwed up by an unusual model or paintjob assignment, but you know which ship is which from the outset and that mental map will be built around that.

 

If you know which ship is which at the start of the game you'll know if one has an unusual appearance (such as Soontir in a red interceptor) and it's wholly unrealistic to suggest that you wouldn't know which ship is which at the start of the game because you look at the opponent's cards to see what they've got and their bases to see which ship is where.

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@corsair117: Ok...  Ether you havent played BT, or you play that Darkage clix stuff, or you only play with cardboard minis, or you never been in a situation were you needed a new mech/mechs but you TRULY KILLED every enemy mech, or you didnt have techs trained well enough for major salvage, or your a I.S. force fighting claners when at a time all you could do is salvage parts not repair a whole omnimech, or your a claner fighting I.S. and dont waste your time rebuilding trash since you got omnimechs which are very easy to keep fighting in any campaign, or your only using level 1 rules (IVE only ever used level 3 rules), you dont have the money to capture and repair a new mech, or you flat out never lost your mech and you never needed to take your enemies mech.

 

 

 

 

Heck in BFG and Battletech you can lose your minis prema and have thm repainted by the enemy player. You could win them back but you'll have to repaint them again. If anyone here has played those games they will already be used to having to constantly repaint heir mins and captured minis.

 

 

... :huh: This is either a bald-faced lie or you play with some seriously strange houserules, I've played both games (battletech for a long time) and have NEVER seen/read/heard of any rule like that.

 

Then how do you do battelfield salvaging? A mech gets destroyed and then you smash the mini with a hammer and the winner gets all the bits that are stil ok so he can modify his other mechs? :)

 

*edit* you know what rather than argue with you I just decided to see what the official battletech forums thought of your "idea", only a few responses so far but not looking good for your argument.

Edited by corsair117

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@:Seconed responce: Whats so silly about it?  If their goal is to decive the other player they will make sure you dont get a look see at their cards or bases, esp their more important ones, as long as they can.  They would also give a verbal responce that is deceptive over letting you see the plates or cards as long as they can.  Hence why at best the victim wont know something is wrong till turn 1 when the damage has already been done.

 

Unless the victim plans to just rip open the liars mini case right as they come too the table and look at their minis they wont know something is wrong till possible turn zero at best.

 

I don't believe you've played a single game, scenarios possibly aside, without looking at the opponent's ship and upgrade cards before you start. It's laughable to suggest you begin a standard game without knowing what your opponent is flying and what upgrades they have equipped (by looking at cards) and which model is which ship (by looking at bases).

 

Guys, specifically @TIE Pilot, you seem to be talking as though the only issue is people being unable to tell ships apart when they study each one carefully.  That's not the issue.  The issue is the the mental map of the game in your head which is adjusted and reinforced every time you see the table, even the bits in the periphery of your vision.  If a ship is similar to another ship this can mess up the map in your head, and anybody who's ever forgotten which ship had which upgrade knows how bad these mistakes can be, so we don't need to be introducing any more of them.

 

I'm saying it's silly to suggest that people just look at the model to tell what a ship is throughout the entire match. There is not a single ship in the 100pt game where you know what it is just from the model. Not one. Everybody, consciously or not, will look at the bases and the opponent's cards at least once in normal play.

 

You know Soontir's in a red interceptor at the start of the game. You're not going to suddenly assume he's in a bloodstripe after you gain that information. You're not going to mix up a closed s-foil X-wing with a Z-95 unless you have severe eyesight impairments because they look different.

 

 

Also, you could totally argue that rotating a ship is changing the shape, as you could define the shape as including the base , or argue that the shape is relative.  As an example of the importance of orientation: Now, I'm not saying I'd argue this (I've rotated three of my own B-Wings (as well as many turrets, which is definitely changing the shape)), but somebody could.

FFG explicitly allows magnet mounting.

 

@4A: Yes thats how I see it.  Avenger, Alpha, 181st, RG have a exact look and it should never be mismatched between each other. 

 

@4B: Yes you must buy 4 Reb Aces or just paint 4 blues the best you can to llok like daggers.

 

@4C: Yes you can buy as many as you like and just paint them too be 181st or buy 3-6 IMP aces.

 

Seriously?

 

If FFG demanded that after the release of Rebel Aces all Dagger Squadron Pilots became illegal unless you bought that many Rebel Aces, or Soontir Fel became illegal unless you bought Imperial Aces they'd be very unpopular very fast. They'd outright hemmorage players.

 

Incidentally, you do realise Blue Squadron Pilots don't have a released mini? They're blue. The B-wing blister paintjob is the one on the Keyan, Ibitisam and Ten Numb artwork.

 

Maybe in your little world of infinite funds and painting mastery this makes sense but to the rest of us that'd just be severe price gouging from FFG.

 

 

@1st and 2nd post:  But your not taking into account how crafty this person is or how willing they are to make sure you dont know what they have.  They will make sure you only get verbal information, thats incorrect.

 

As for seeing the base clearly thats something a shield token can cover nicley.  That det doesnt matter though because for this to work they have to verbally lie (tell them they are all RGI) too the other player while making sure all they see is the red minis, in this example, and deploy them where they see fit.  Just doing this for turn zero is enough to have a advantage in that game.

 

Not everyperson, I would wager most people wouldnt, is going to assume or feel the need to look at that persons craft cards after they were just told what craft they have while the victim also only sees the Red Interceptors.

 

@3rd: I also said "or paint the best they can the squadron colors."  Depending on the size of game that could be 2 - 8.  I believe you can only have 8 of one type in the large ship battles.  Painting or removing red paint stripes wont cost much and painting a TIE Interceptor red wont be that much more expensive than adding red stripes.

 

Blue has a mini its the one that isnt Dagger, just like how Avenger and Alpha have to make do with a unmarked Interceptor.

 

IM sorry you cant buy small amounts of paint to fix up your squadron exclusive minis or make squadron exclusive minis..

 

Say... when does your preorder for the IMP Raider with the TIE Advanced fix come in off the boat?  I can understand if you couldnt get a copy, they are so cheap everyone was able to preorder it and flooded FFG with preorder tickets  -_-

 

Funny thing is.. I like to run an all red squad.. so I have used my red (royal guard repaint) Advanced.. and 3 alphas which were three royal guard ties.. but.. casual game and I made sure my opponent knew what I was flying..

So maybe we are talking intent then.. I thonk most of the dishonest folks would be well known, unless they are new to an area.. just make sure you double check their sheet.. and if they forgot it.. take a look at what they have on the table, and if anything deviates from that.. Question them... it seems simple to me..

Seems someone in my tourney didn't realize when you placed ships on the table during the set up phase, that you set them withIN a range one placimg.. when I asked him about it, I just assumed it was an oversight.. he seemed taken back by my question, and when I explained he should be setting up within range one of the edge he seemed still a little confused because, I guess, his friends always set up range one, into the 2 range.. so right on the line, it just looked odd to me.. the TO happened to be standing right next to us and gave his agreement to my comments so far.. I wasn't irate or a jerk, just correcting a slight difference in set up than he was used to..

I'd had someone do that before too and found itnodd.. is it a casual ruling? I haven't heard of it, and typically use tourney rules for all games.. that's just what we do here, others may not, and that's fine...

 

@2nd paragraph only: Yes its about intent.  If it got to a point you kept questioning them about what they really had, if their was doubt, it might not be a good idea to touch their minis yourself.  If they are willing to lie about what they have, make sure you dont see what they have till its to late, and have a backup story for the judge if they are called over (one that may be designeed to counter attack / bump off the victim, you dont hhink they might cook up a false story to feed to the judge about messing with their minis?

 

 

 

This situation boggles my mind.. if someone took my miniatures, I'd smack em up side the head.. so I think for my solution I'd just buy new ships, or piecemeal a miniature together to represent my salvaged craft/parts.. and I'd never sign up to a game where I could lose my entire force due to a total loss of the game.. I'd be out money for the models, and someone would be feeling my ire... so I guess this one makes me wonder.. who does that.. to me it's idiotic..

I used to play Battleteck years ago, actually played Battledroids first. Lol. Then helped write rules for battletech as well.. I dont remember letting anyone take my models at the end of a game...

 

You wouldnt smack them in the hea because ods are they are one of your friends.  The odds of you losing your whole force both in BFG and BT are pretty low.  You did see what I wrote too 117?  Its hard kinda to not get a perfect kill on a mech.  If the main body is destroyed you can have that mech.  The only safe way to get a mech and have it be part of your arm is with head shots.  Head shots are one of the hardest thing to do in the BT game except maybe the rpg.

 

As for BFG you actully have to capture the ship during a boarding action, which isnt always going to happen, or the ship you destroy has to be a drifting hulk thats still on the table at the time of victory.  At death a drifting hulk is a 2-6 on a 2d6.  It moves 4d6 forward ever time its its turn till its off the table.

 

I only fought Nercons once soo if I rember correctly when you take out 75% of their forces the fleet warps out, including hulks I believe.  Also drifting daemon ship hulks and nid hulks are next to impossible to capture.  I think daemon ships cant be captured at all actully.

 

 

*edit* you know what rather than argue with you I just decided to see what the official battletech forums thought of your "idea", only a few responses so far but not looking good for your argument.

 

 

 

Thats cute 117.  Reading some of their posts, some dont side with your posts.  I saw your orignal post as can a moderator. 

 

I also find it cute you ignored any BFG refrences I mentioned both on this forum or your w.g. website

 

 

Do you have proof you played BT for 22 years?  I also find it intresting you wrote down in your first post you cant think of anyway a person would use the rules I talked about, YET you wrote down a reason in your 2nd post those rules would be used.

 

Also can you prove you are not a sock puppet?  I find it odd your profile says yove made 6-7 posts but only TWO can bee seen.

 

ALSO 117 I didnt give you permission to quote me and post my posts on other websites.  You will ask for here on out.

Edited by Black Knight Leader

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Lol, and I should care you saw my original post why? I realized after I posted it that arguing with you was pointless and perhaps I was wrong, maybe other groups did play the game that way (though unlike your original point that "any" battletech player would be used to giving up their minis is completely false, it may happen but it's the rare by everything I've seen) and I left out BFG as I only play the game occasionally and haven't played in a campaign for that game nor have I read every one of its books so there might have been something there, as such I decided not to argue that point as I felt I don't have a strong enough grasp on that game to argue that point .

 

 

Proof? what exactly would I show you that could possibly prove how long I've been playing? and in any case how would I know you wouldn't continue making me "prove" whatever I show you?

 

sock-puppet? cute  :rolleyes: .

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@Black Knight Leader, I am not above giving one of my friends a 'Gibbs slap' up side the head.. lol.. obviously gaming with friends is different than gaming with new people, and I'd be less inclined to 'smackem' ..

In that light, gaming with new people that seem shady or seem to be cheating, I'm not afraid to demand either a list, which they should be able to produce, or to let me see their cards, and to know which ship is what. People dont scare me, so some guy at a game or tourney isn't going to pull one over on me because I'm fine calling him on his list. Either show it to me, or show me the cards.. also, he had to clear the list with the TO, and I won't have a problem asking the TO what he has, or have the TO get him to show me a list..

Anyone trying to cheat that hard is gonna get caught by someone eventually. Honestly, if you're too timid to ask someone what they are using, I dont have sympathy for you. (Maybe not you specifically, but you as a general term for someone that is too timid to confront their opponent)

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It has everything to do with it.

 

The premise is people confusing one ship with another based on the models and the premise is nonsense.

 

You're not telling ships apart by "careful study", you know which ship is which. You talk of a mental map of the field being screwed up by an unusual model or paintjob assignment, but you know which ship is which from the outset and that mental map will be built around that.

 

If you know which ship is which at the start of the game you'll know if one has an unusual appearance (such as Soontir in a red interceptor) and it's wholly unrealistic to suggest that you wouldn't know which ship is which at the start of the game because you look at the opponent's cards to see what they've got and their bases to see which ship is where.

 

That's completely true.  If you're an android.

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Any rules regarding giving up miniatures in either Battletech or Battlefleet Gothic is entirely a house rules thing. I know the rules for both systems, and neither has anything like that. OK, BFG never had it, and BT doesn't currently, (I don't know if it might have been decades ago).

 

What both games have is an options in friendly campaigns (not official tournament games, as in those games you used fixed lists you produce before you start the game, so "capturing" things wasn't even a thing) that ships or mechs can be recovered from the battlefield and then fielded by the enemy... however, this does not require you to hand over the models. You might do between friends to facilitate the capture (and I could certainly see letting your friend borrow the model), but that is entirely a private thing, not required by the rules. If you wanted to do it you were expected to buy and build your own model.

 

The only game I can even think of that ever had "the loser has to give their property up to the winner" was Magic the Gathering (you used to randomly draw a card as a stake before the game), and they got rid of that pretty quickly. OK, that and POGS.

Edited by borithan

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