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Urmel69

H&M Collection, Missing Heroes, Leutnants etc...

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Hey there and greetings from the far Germany (so sorry if my english is not the best)

 

First of all i've got to say i love the H&M Collections, even if i have everything from D1E. We just use both of the minis, it's pretty cool to put different razorwings etc on the board and not just the same looking ones. So i dont get it why some people who have the old stuff are unhappy about the HMC.

In our campaigns the hero players choose there heroes in the beginning by the picture. So i use the old heroes AND the new ones. For example in our last campaign we had the old version of Shiver and the new version of Laurel. We played the three original campaigns (Base Game, LoR and SoN) each 3 times and till now i wrote 5 campaigns (with maps, story etc) and we played them all. So we nearly had all chars and classes in the game and still hope that there will be much more new stuff.

But what we all hope very much is that FFG brings us ALL of the old monsters and heroes from D1E. But i am really not sure if they bring monsters like ferrox, kobolds (do they have this name in english?) ore all the other small minis like skelly archers etc. I really fear that there are not all monsters and heroes in new versions.

 

And the thing about the heroes what makes me a bit angry is that we have many many human ones but some of the really cool ones like Varikas the Dead, Karnon (the Yeti), Okulak and Rakash, Steelhorns etc are missing.

And what we all could not have enough (would be interessting what you in US think about it) are leutnants. Our wishes would be that FFG brings us Leutnant packs with the D1E leutnants. There are so much really cool ones and i want to bring them back in the 2E Game but with new models and not metal ones but fitting to the others in grey resin, new cards etc. FFG gave us the upgrade kit (what was cool), they give us now (hopefully all) heroes and monsters from 1E in HMC (what is even better than the Upgrade Kit) so WHY FFG you dont give us the old leutnants to bring them back into play. With the leutnant cards you could perfectly bring them into the campaigns...

The next we wish for would be one single NPCC (Non Player Character Collection) with figures for familiars, guards etc to kick out the paper markers of the game. For important persons like the one you have to rescue etc we use hero figures that are not in play. But all the familiars should have own figures and just 4 figures for guards and 4 for pawns etc would be cool. So they would fit better into the game and wouldnt have to use warhammer minis or minis from other games that dont fit to the others.

And last i wanted to say i dont get it why so much people argue about the knock down instead of kill rules. In our self-made campaigns every hero gets full life and 3 of the D1E skull markers. Every time he is knocked down he looses one of them. When he gets back up he has full life (if he wouldnt have full life after getting up the 3 markers would be away to soon) but no stamina. Between the missions when the heroes come back to town they can spend 100 Gold to regenerate one of them. If a hero is knocked down and has no life marker left he is dead and the player has to choose a new one with and has to start without any skills (but can use the weapons etc from the killed one if he wants to). In our campaigns the players get the XP in common and can spend it like they want to. For example all 4XP just for one player instead of 1 for every one of the 4. So the killed players could be skilled up after 2 games again.

I didnt want to write so much but i was in the mood to... So i would be happy to read what some of you think about my 2 Cents.

Greetings again. CU again USA for the next Wrestlemania or Super Bowl trip ;-)
Urmel

 

Edited by Urmel69

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First of all i've got to say i love the H&M Collections, even if i have everything from D1E. We just use both of the minis, it's pretty cool to put different razorwings etc on the board and not just the same looking ones. So i dont get it why some people who have the old stuff are unhappy about the HMC.

I don't know anyone who owns D1E stuff who actively dislikes the HMCs concept. . I know some don't get them because they don't feel they need them, and some don't like the art or miniature quality. That seems like a reasonable position to me, as there are definitely issues with some of them.

 

But what we all hope very much is that FFG brings us ALL of the old monsters and heroes from D1E. But i am really not sure if they bring monsters like ferrox, kobolds (do they have this name in english?) ore all the other small minis like skelly archers etc. I really fear that there are not all monsters and heroes in new versions.

I hope they bring back Kobolds, because I use them in my campaigns regularly and would definitely buy the HMC for it. I think there are plans for at least 3 more unannounced HMCs, so it is quite possible they will come back eventually, but probably in a nerfed form with no Split ability. (i.e. useless)

 

And the thing about the heroes what makes me a bit angry is that we have many many human ones but some of the really cool ones like Varikas the Dead, Karnon (the Yeti), Okulak and Rakash, Steelhorns etc are missing.

I second this. I would love the non-human heroes to be emphasized since we have so many darn humans already. I'm pysched that Ispher was put in the latest pack and actually made decent.

 

WHY FFG you dont give us the old leutnants to bring them back into play. With the leutnant cards you could perfectly bring them into the campaigns...

Only way I could see them bringing them back is as Lieutenant Packs, and I think they had plenty of releases with just the D2E lieutenants and the catalog probably couldn't support more.

 

The next we wish for would be one single NPCC (Non Player Character Collection) with figures for familiars, guards etc to kick out the paper markers of the game. For important persons like the one you have to rescue etc we use hero figures that are not in play.

Problem is that the familiars are scattered throughout the different expansions and FFG doesn't release Descent content that requires anything but the base set, so I don't see this happening. Its not difficult to simply use proxy minis from other games if you don't want to use any tokens.

 

In our self-made campaigns every hero gets full life and 3 of the D1E skull markers

Interesting mechanic, but I think it would be pretty frustrating for the Overlord for the heroes to stand up with full life every time they're knocked down. It makes knocking down the heroes to buy time to complete objectives a less viable strategy, as the heroes don't need any time to heal or play more cautiously while they are hurt. This also reduces the value of healer characters.

 

As Overlord my strategy would shift to simply trying to one-shot weaker heroes here and there to make them lose skulls (and thus, money). Either this will result in the party having no money to buy equipment because they have to keep buying skulls, or once they are down to one skull, I would then kill them off at the start of Act II (where it is easiest to do so) to make them lose all their skills, hugely shifting the game in my favor. I think this would damage game balance significantly.

 

I honestly don't think any changes are needed to the existing knockdown mechanics. I know they aren't like D1E, but they make sense for this game.

Edited by Charmy

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Hey there

 

thanks for your answers.

 

To Charmys post: Me and my Players dont Play Descent all the time, most of the time we play pen and paper roleplaying games so i see my role as overlord more like my role as master in the pen and paper games. I dont try to "win" the game, i just make a fantastic story and quests for the players and try to make a good game night where the quests (in the best case) are decided in the last view moments who wins. So for us its quiet cool with our 3 life per hero rules. We have some more rules for our epic campaigns. After the quest, when the Heros come back to town there are not just the Options to spend there experience and go to the market. We have also a alchemist (buy different potions, we use the D1E markers), a mystic (sells trinkets (we use D1E Training markers) that give one time benefits in the next quests, a priest (buy new life Points, gives holy blessings (also old d1e markers for Special benefits) and we have the Pet Master where the Players can buy pets. Therefore we use all the old pet markers from D1E. As example the shadow Soul marker is a pet that the Player can move and Switch positions with the marker one time per quest.

to Zaltyre and OneOgre: Sorry i didnt do my campaigns with Quest Vault, i even dont know what this is. Like in my pen and paper sessions i drawed (mmh wright word?) the maps and graphics myself on papyrus (medival paper rolls) with pencils and wrote down the rules and storys on them two. The things the Heros get told from NPCs is writen on old letter paper and handed out to the Players the time they get to know it.

So sorry i think i cant put that stuff into quest vault, because i am some kind of old fashioned  ;-) I have to say in summer we play outdoor in the garden. We have a small ... ähm... (dont know the word for a small small river) there and some trees. We make a fire and have some gaming tables there and a cd-player for the role playing Music etc. So you see i am a really role playing game romantic ;-)  

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Quest vault is very easy to learn.

If you try it out you might fall in love with it.

When you finish a quest it will look very similar to the quests in the quest book that came with the game.

and you can print them out and they look professional. 

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In case you're interested, here's a link to the quest vault. If you browse with "zaltyre" in the author field, you'll see some of the quests I've made. There is a map editor where you can arrange the map pieces, and text input where you add story, special rules, etc. When you "publish" the quest (under preview while editing) it makes the quest searchable and downloadable as a pdf, looking exactly like the quest guides that FFG prints.

Edited by Zaltyre

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First of all i've got to say i love the H&M Collections, even if i have everything from D1E. We just use both of the minis, it's pretty cool to put different razorwings etc on the board and not just the same looking ones. So i dont get it why some people who have the old stuff are unhappy about the HMC.

Speaking as somebody who has the all the old minis, I'm not at all unhappy about the HMCs. I'm not buying them, but that's just my personal choice. I have the CK and the original minis and that's good enough for me, but for others who want both, more power to them.

The new sculpts do look amazing, particularly the Razorwings, and you mention.

But what we all hope very much is that FFG brings us ALL of the old monsters and heroes from D1E. But i am really not sure if they bring monsters like ferrox, kobolds (do they have this name in english?) ore all the other small minis like skelly archers etc. I really fear that there are not all monsters and heroes in new versions.

Time will tell, I suppose. I expect that they will continue releasing HMCs until they've re-released everything from D1E though, as long as sales of the current HMCs justify continued support of the line, of course.

 

And what we all could not have enough (would be interessting what you in US think about it) are leutnants. Our wishes would be that FFG brings us Leutnant packs with the D1E leutnants.

I agree that it would be perfectly possible to release the old D1E LTs in LT packs that follow the same pattern as the existing ones. It would be neat to see, although I'm not sure I would buy them. As awesome as the metal minis were in D1E, I never got around to buying them then, so I'm not sure I would this time around either.

I'm not even buying all the D2E LTs, to be honest. I've got the Farrows since they're iconic characters in the Terrinoth setting, but I don't have any others, nor plans to buy them in the near future.

The next we wish for would be one single NPCC (Non Player Character Collection) with figures for familiars, guards etc to kick out the paper markers of the game. For important persons like the one you have to rescue etc we use hero figures that are not in play. But all the familiars should have own figures and just 4 figures for guards and 4 for pawns etc would be cool. So they would fit better into the game and wouldnt have to use warhammer minis or minis from other games that dont fit to the others.

Cool idea, but the thing about familiars and NPCs is that they aren't always treated as figures in the rules. Some of them are, some of them aren't. Having minis for the ones that are always figures might be cool, but having figures for the ones that aren't actually figures (or only sometimes are figures) could make things really confusing. Not to mention making it hard to co-occupy the space with the non-figure in cases where that is allowed.

And last i wanted to say i dont get it why so much people argue about the knock down instead of kill rules. In our self-made campaigns every hero gets full life and 3 of the D1E skull markers. Every time he is knocked down he looses one of them. When he gets back up he has full life (if he wouldnt have full life after getting up the 3 markers would be away to soon) but no stamina. Between the missions when the heroes come back to town they can spend 100 Gold to regenerate one of them. If a hero is knocked down and has no life marker left he is dead and the player has to choose a new one with and has to start without any skills (but can use the weapons etc from the killed one if he wants to). In our campaigns the players get the XP in common and can spend it like they want to. For example all 4XP just for one player instead of 1 for every one of the 4. So the killed players could be skilled up after 2 games again.

Interesting variant. If it works for you, that's great.

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