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Orius

High level game issues

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If you think pressure point can only do 17 damage and most likely 9, then you have no idea. Combine it with different talents and you're easily looking at trwice that. And then compare to NPC strain thresholds - which is also a factor in determing how much one point of unsoaked strain damage is worth ;)

to one NPC in engaged range. that the Player can actually make a brawl attack. Still not scary at double the damage. Oh and since it is strain a stim pack can pop nemesis back up.

Edited by Daeglan

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If you think pressure point can only do 17 damage and most likely 9, then you have no idea. Combine it with different talents and you're easily looking at trwice that. And then compare to NPC strain thresholds - which is also a factor in determing how much one point of unsoaked strain damage is worth ;)

to one NPC in engaged range. that the Player can actually make a brawl attack. Still not scary at double the damage. Oh and since it is strain a stim pack can pop nemesis back up.

 

 

I'm sorry? Pop the nemesis back up? Go through the NPCs and tell me the nemesis with 30+ strain threshold.... he's out cold and will not pop anything but his brain. It's like you're just writing stuff without any ties to reality. The issue is that he can simply one shot them and then they're not comming back up unless you house rule what happends when passing the strain threshold.

 

And that's a nemesis. Then take a non nemesis... how is it the rules handle strain for non nemesis? Yeah, those rivals and regulars will simply die.

 

A nemesis rancor... 40 wounds and 15 strain, soak value of 12. One shooted even by a low level doc.

 

The highest strain threshold in the core book is 22. A well made docs one shots everything easily. Rivals and less die straight away and nemesis are incapacitated.

Edited by Gallows

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I've read this entire thread, but I don't think pressure point by itself is broken.  To really one shot, pressure point a Rancor, a player must decide to do the following steps:

 

1. Create a Wookie or other Brawn 3 character and spend all starting experience on Brawn (can get to 5 with starting XP)

2. Choose Hired Gun Marauder and starts with Brawl 2.

3. Through play picks up the following:

  • The Doctor Specialization [30 XP]
  • 5 ranks of Medicine [75 XP]
  • Marauder Talents: Feral Strength 3 (Cheapest Way is to get the 5 XP Toughened or Frenzied Attack, but let's go with Frenzied Attack since it would be more ridiculous) [100 XP to include all talents in between]
  • Doctor Talents: Pressure Point [40 XP for the shortest path]

This does not include any increases to Brawl (still at 2), but already at 245 XP.  The PC can deal 8 damage + 5 pressure point + successes [needing at least 3 on the Easy (silhouette difference) Brawl check  with a pool of 2Y3G to exceed the 15 Strain Threshold].  This character still only has a ST of 10, a Willpower of 1, and would probably crap his pants if the GM made him take a fear check for facing a rancor.  I hope he misses so the rancor uses its massive rending claws to cut him in half down to his munchkin size.

 

But in the end, where was the GM and the rest of the players before this point? If a player really wants to play this character, let him, but I don't find it fun to try to break talents that aren't that bad.  A regular doctor with Pressure Point just has an ace in his sleeve in case he gets cornered.  To nerf it takes that away from PCs that won't abuse the system.

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For me the big issue with players getting too powerful Is the min maxing and characters over gearing themselves. I keep encountering players where even the diplomat is trying to heavily armor to the point of walking around in a mech suit. Also they focus almost 100% on combat and don't well round. Rather than having balanced characters that are more like real heroic people like the characters from the movies. If players will start looking at their character as a character a person rather than a stat block they will go much further and much longer in a campaign before becoming too powerful. If you are in one of my games please try to play a character. Characters go beyond a stat block. They have a personality motivations emotions. Not just a stat block where I need to get the highest attribute and skill ranks. When leveling try only spending xp on the skill you used in today's adventure not what ever skill maxes you out. Ok rant over.

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For me the big issue with players getting too powerful Is the min maxing and characters over gearing themselves. I keep encountering players where even the diplomat is trying to heavily armor to the point of walking around in a mech suit.

Gear can be taken away. Gear should be taken away, at least on occasion. If it’s not actually taken away, then it should at least be prohibited by the local laws and you get your ass quickly thrown in jail if you violate that law.

You gotta make the players think outside the box, at least on occasion. And gear becomes a crutch that is far too easily leaned on.

You don’t have to take gear away all the time, just on occasion.

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I blow up gear and vehicles from time to time when there's a valid, storyline related reason to do so- rather than a malicious 'need' to do so. It basically stops PC's getting a bum-groove on their chairs with preferred, go to first, problem solving solutions and becoming too comfortable with their surroundings.

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For me the big issue with players getting too powerful Is the min maxing and characters over gearing themselves. I keep encountering players where even the diplomat is trying to heavily armor to the point of walking around in a mech suit. Also they focus almost 100% on combat and don't well round. Rather than having balanced characters that are more like real heroic people like the characters from the movies. If players will start looking at their character as a character a person rather than a stat block they will go much further and much longer in a campaign before becoming too powerful. If you are in one of my games please try to play a character. Characters go beyond a stat block. They have a personality motivations emotions. Not just a stat block where I need to get the highest attribute and skill ranks. When leveling try only spending xp on the skill you used in today's adventure not what ever skill maxes you out. Ok rant over.

Diplomat wearing heavy armor?? I foresee difficulty upgrades and setbacks and increases on their core competency since a diplomat showing up in heavy armor to negotiate tends to go over poorly.

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This does not include any increases to Brawl (still at 2), but already at 245 XP.  The PC can deal 8 damage + 5 pressure point + successes [needing at least 3 on the Easy (silhouette difference) Brawl check  with a pool of 2Y3G to exceed the 15 Strain Threshold].  This character still only has a ST of 10, a Willpower of 1, and would probably crap his pants if the GM made him take a fear check for facing a rancor.  I hope he misses so the rancor uses its massive rending claws to cut him in half down to his munchkin size.

 

Of course for 245 points, I could easily build a politico that will destroy an encounter as bad as someone one-shorting a Rancor.

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Diplomat wearing heavy armor?? I foresee difficulty upgrades and setbacks and increases on their core competency since a diplomat showing up in heavy armor to negotiate tends to go over poorly.

 

 

Not if you're a graduate of the Korben Dallas School of Negotiations.

 

 

Having just read the new Star Wars Comics by Marvel Comics...there is another negotiator in heavy armor that arrives.  ;)

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Being new to this game and excited to experience more of it, this thread makes me a little sad. There is so much awesome in this game besides combat that someone munchkining their character to break the game is just a travesty. But, even though it makes me a little sad, it does provide a lot of insight for me when I do, one day, GM my own games. I've GMed other games before and I've always tried to curtail this at the beginning by letting the players know that it's not going to be a combat focused only game and that they should be able to contribute in other areas of the game.

In regards to comments by a previous poster, I agree that non-combatants should be non-combatants and that they shouldn't be required train in defense or have access to some defensive pool that doesn't make sense for their character in-game. If you are a technician, why is it that you just happen to have balanced defense that makes you even near comparable to the combat veteran that's spent years bleeding on battlefields? If you're a technician and you want to contribute, you should stay clear of the hotspots in battle or do something outside the battle that can contribute. Like effect the environment or whatnot. In Firefly, Kaylee rarely ever gets into combat. I can think of only a couple times she actually grabs a gun to try and fight. If your a non-combatant and you have the ungodly bad luck of being a target of a super sniper assassin...uhm...you should be dead. The bigger problem is why is the technician being targeted at all and why is he/she even in combat to be targeted to begin with. It would be the same as allowing the combat munchkin to lead the delicate peace treaty negotiation with no ability in social skills. It shouldn't happen.

Lastly, in regards to high level play and the maxed out skills that causes some of these balance problems, perhaps there should be some roleplay aspect/great efforts/expenditures/downtime to get to the highest levels of a skill. From what I gather, a skill level of 3 is superior, 4 is elite and 5 is mastery and very few attain this level. I would think to attain this level it would be very difficult to find training or a master, perhaps costly and should take an extreme amount of downtime to attain. Perhaps it should take a significant amount of time and money to locate the resources or training to get there. Maybe a GM allows a player to spend the points but it has to be roleplayed out and require a few sessions before the skill points are attained. Perhaps varying degrees of this occurs at the higher levels of skill training. It's worth it but if it takes a lot to acquire it, perhaps players will put off trying for it right away to spend their points elsewhere for more immediate satisfaction/impact which would help round out their characters more. Maybe going from skill levels 3 to 4 and 4 to 5 should be a bigger deal. I don't know. If I ever ran a game, I might take that approach. Players can spend their points wherever they want, it'll just take longer I realize the benefit.

Anyhow, enough of my rambling. I am very interested in this thread having read all 6 pages already so big thanks to everyone for the insights!

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I've never really had power game issues in any game.  I have had min/maxers and power gamers that I GM'd for, but they were never any trouble because it usually means that character is a one-trick pony.  And challenging one-trick ponies is crazy easy: just avoid what they are really good at!

Also, as a GM, when you are telling a story over just running combat encounters, those one-trick ponies start to seem real lack-luster.

Also, as a GM I've always been of the mindset that the heroes are meant to win 99% of the time.  That doesn't mean things have to be easy or that they should know they are going to win, but ultimately they should win.  So power gamers and min/maxed characters just help them along in that regard.  As long as I feel they were sufficiently challenged, then I am a happy GM.

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