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DraconPyrothayan

A potential update to L-B-W

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Most of this is cribbed from my post in Ennomial's "Triple X" post in the Squad Building sub-forum.

 

 

The classic Luke-Biggs-Wedge worked with the following roles:


The Tank-Biggs

The SupportLuke + DTF + R2-D2. He peels Crits off of Biggs, regenerates the damage away, and will eventually move into the role of Tank when Biggs dies.

The AceWedge. His job is to deal lots of damage, protected by this aforementioned wall of insanity.

 

If I were to re-examine this, I'd consider the following:

  1. Is there a better Tank than Biggs?
  2. Is there a better Support than Luke + DTF + R2-D2?
    1. Is there a better pilot for DTF + R2D2?
    2. Is there a better form of support than DTF + R2D2?
  3. Is there a better Ace than Wedge?

 

Answers:

  1. No
  2. Possibly.
    1. Etahn A'baht or Corran Horn, possibly.
    2. R5-P9 looks interesting. Luke doesn't really need to spend Focii defensively, and this allows you to regen on non-green maneuvers as well. 
      ​The Jan Ors crew card also looks particularly tasty. Evade tokens would help fellow ships a lot, but it is still action-dependent.
  3. Corran. Horn.

Interestingly, CH shows up in two spots, as a Wedge replacement and as a Luke replacement. That means that instead of Tank+Support+Carry, we can have Tank+Support/Carry+Support, or Tank+Support/Carry+Carry

 

 

 

That is to say:

Option 1: Corran Horn replaces Wedge as the primary damage dealer, but can still take R2-D2 and DTF, alongside Luke with the R5-P9 +DTF. 

In this fleet, Biggs has two different people protecting him from Crits, so if an opponent is playing a Crits-fleet (Advanced Targeting Computers and Mangler Cannons say hello), the damage negation is doubled.
After Biggs inevitably bites the Death Star, you'll have 2 regenerating pilots capable of pulling damage off of the other, meaning that your remaining burst-fire needs to be that much higher to actually kill them.
Also, they'll be Luke Skywalker and Corran-Freakin-Horn, so neither's a ship you want to face in the end-game.

Option 2: Corran Horn replaces Luke as the primary support, but can still deal death as well as he could in the former example.

In this fleet, Biggs stays alive as long as he does in the original, but Corran and Wedge will completely melt the enemy during this time.
After Biggs invariably dances with the sparklies, you're left with a substantially less tanky fleet than Option 1, but you're left with two ships capable of floor-mopping.

 

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If you want a super survival Luke, I'm partial to: Luke + R5P9 + Predator. Think about:

Luke Skywalker — X-Wing 28

Predator 3

R5-P9 3

Garven Dreis — X-Wing 26

R2-D6 1

Predator 3

Hull Upgrade 3

Wes Janson — X-Wing 29

Push the Limit (or Predator) 3

R2 Astromech 1

It doesn't fit neatly into your tank/support/ace idea (which I quite like), but Wes is an offensive support and Garvin is a defensive support, with Luke performing the Ace and tank roles.

The strength of this list is that it doesn't require tight formation, and there's no obvious first target- Luke and Wes will pick someone apart with fair ease.

The downside of this list (and any XXX list) is that a Phantom can get behind it and pick it apart. It can't really respond.

Would be fun against a cloud of ties, though!

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man, i'm not sure how people keep letting phantoms behind their x wings. 

 

the biggest lie a phantom player will ever tell you is that they have options. that they are unpredictable. 

 

that decloak is directly tied to the manuever the phantom player has locked in. every phantom is handcuffed to the one move they HAVE to make. all you have to do is block the best decloak option. hell, you dont even have to block it if you sufficiently cover that area with firing arcs.

 

worst case scenario, the phantom stays cloaked and moves to a spot you cant shoot at it. 

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I don't know on Biggs.  I love Biggs, I have his Sexy alt card, I built a list for Sexy Biggs - (Biggs and the Mustache Riders)

 

BUT Tarn+R7 is a pain in the exhaust port to deal with most of the time, and for the same price as Biggs, can deal more damage.  GRANTED Biggs does shield the other pilots for a couple rounds but you are basically giving up 2 ships worth of points (if you figure each side has 12 point ships currently)

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I flew

100pts

Wedge +Predator +R2-D2

Luke + VI+ R5-P9

Wes +VI +R3-A2

to fourth place in a casual tournament (3-0 got 4th from MoV ) and third place in a store championship (3-1 in Swiss, 1-1 in top 8).

Wes and Luke are interchangeable in movement and firing order to maximize action economy and spread stress in the event a Rebel Captive is on board the targeted ship. While I did suffer my first loss to a named Phantom since October, it was simply because the Wes and Luke took crits that made them 100% useless (Luke had blinded pilot and Wes had injured pilot.) the Phantom essentially ran away until Wedge caught him on a turn. Whisper is really easy to figure out. My first match, I wiped an Echo build (Echo was not even facing my ships because he had no idea where he was going and I saw his best decloak option sucked for position) he gambled but ultimately Echo never had a chance.

Edited by InstantAequitas

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While there's no rival to Biggs in the Tank department. The number of Support or DPS options are good ways to create the "Biggs-Effect" it's easiest done with a Damage Dealer. The Empire has the Phantom, S&V has IG88A, Rebels have Corran.

 

Biggs is the Autothrusters for the Rebels, his ability is Anti-Turret because it forces all Turrets to attack him. Even Nera if she's using Deadeye's effect rather than TL.

 

For 2-3 ship builds it's all about Tank, Off-Tank, DPS and if you want to achieve that level of synergy you need high threat elements in your list that makes your opponent see that as the strongest threat. 

Or build a list that gives you're opponent a hard choice of "top threat target"

 

-----

 

Here's an example for the latter:

 

Jek Porkins — X-Wing 26
Opportunist 4
R5-D8 3
 
Luke Skywalker — X-Wing 28
Draw Their Fire 1
R5-P9 3
 
Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 29
Draw Their Fire 1
R2-D2 4

 

Of these 3 who's the biggest threat? 

Luke a proven Late-Game monster. 

Wedge with his anti-agility and Higher PS.

Porkins with + Attack and lowest PS. 

All have Regeneration capabilities. 

And Luke and Wedge can deflect Crits away from Porkins or each other.  

 

----

 

Another is Outmaneuver Wedge + Stress Wes w/ filler. 

Who's you're main threat Wes or Wedge? One takes away Actions, the other Takes away 2Ag.

 

----

 

Tanking is about splitting attention by getting your opponent to "Aggro" towards the pilot you want them to and allow your DPS / Damage Dealers to do their job.  

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man, i'm not sure how people keep letting phantoms behind their x wings. 

 

the biggest lie a phantom player will ever tell you is that they have options. that they are unpredictable. 

 

that decloak is directly tied to the manuever the phantom player has locked in. every phantom is handcuffed to the one move they HAVE to make. all you have to do is block the best decloak option. hell, you dont even have to block it if you sufficiently cover that area with firing arcs.

 

worst case scenario, the phantom stays cloaked and moves to a spot you cant shoot at it.

Shh.....

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While there's no rival to Biggs in the Tank department. The number of Support or DPS options are good ways to create the "Biggs-Effect" it's easiest done with a Damage Dealer. The Empire has the Phantom, S&V has IG88A, Rebels have Corran.

 

Biggs is the Autothrusters for the Rebels, his ability is Anti-Turret because it forces all Turrets to attack him. Even Nera if she's using Deadeye's effect rather than TL.

 

For 2-3 ship builds it's all about Tank, Off-Tank, DPS and if you want to achieve that level of synergy you need high threat elements in your list that makes your opponent see that as the strongest threat. 

Or build a list that gives you're opponent a hard choice of "top threat target"

 

-----

 

Here's an example for the latter:

 

Jek Porkins — X-Wing 26

Opportunist 4

R5-D8 3

 

Luke Skywalker — X-Wing 28

Draw Their Fire 1

R5-P9 3

 

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 29

Draw Their Fire 1

R2-D2 4

 

Of these 3 who's the biggest threat? 

Luke a proven Late-Game monster. 

Wedge with his anti-agility and Higher PS.

Porkins with + Attack and lowest PS. 

All have Regeneration capabilities. 

And Luke and Wedge can deflect Crits away from Porkins or each other.  

 

----

 

Another is Outmaneuver Wedge + Stress Wes w/ filler. 

Who's you're main threat Wes or Wedge? One takes away Actions, the other Takes away 2Ag.

 

----

 

Tanking is about splitting attention by getting your opponent to "Aggro" towards the pilot you want them to and allow your DPS / Damage Dealers to do their job.

Wedge really does not need DTF, trust me, when he is on the field without Biggs, it's as if he has Biggs ability already built in. If you want a good 1 point EPT for Wedge + R2-D2, I would suggest Determination. The X-wings are typically going to be focused down individually anyways, so making the most out of your first two attacks will be the most important regardless of who you choose to fly.

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I guess to answer the actual questions regarding the new version of the Trench Run Trio;

1: No, but within the current meta, is there really a need for a Biggs to Tank if he can be focused down quickly by certain builds before he can even shoot? If he is not protecting a low PS ordinance carrier from being shot he may become more of a hindrance because he shoots so much later than the meta in combat. In my opinion, Wedge draws a perfect amount of aggro that the rest of the team should feed off of it and work this into their strategy. Strike Hard, Strike First, No Mercy should be what XXX is all about.

2. No. But again I have a caveat that is basically, why would you need to worry about that if you are not explicitly trying to protect Biggs? As the focus drifts away from the attack, Luke ( who as a natural PS8) shoots relatively in the lower half of the high firing order and just after some of the most dangerous shots. In this instance Luke is in peril, as Biggs was, to being destroyed without a second shot.

3.This is fairly subjective. In terms of XXX, no. If updating XXX means including a B or an E, then he certainly has stiff competition from Corran+FCS+R2-D2 and Keyan with Expose (especially if paired with Wes+VI and the Stressbot). Wedge is still the scariest of the X-wing Pilots to everyone except the Decimators. If you have a lot of Fat Hans/Falcons in your local area, introduce this guy and watch everyone migrate to builds that are not totally cheesy un-imaginative Internet clones. Take it a step further and run Wedge with a group of PtL/Outmaneuver A-wings for the additional thumbing of the nose to that fat smug smuggler. Lol.

I have been figuring out how to reintroduce XXX as a contender by showing examples of how I have fared in the past few months using XXXZ or the current XXX I run but any success is normally met with a critique of the opponent as opposed to how well the XXX or XXXZ fares vs the meta. Right now with all of the turrets and two ship lists, the meta is in a wonderful state of flux (at least here near ATL) and the boldest lists are defeating the net-decks much more often.

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DTF Wedge is to add fluidity to the list. Wedge and Luke are relatively Crit-Immune thanks to their Shield regeneration. Porkins however is not. Both with DTF means I can have Luke or Wedge setup as a flanker while the other stays by Porkins. Or I can setup Porkins as a flanker and see how the opponent reacts to having the squishiest component of the list unprotected. 

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They will more than likely use the astromechs for themselves before DTF helps anyone. While spreading the damage is smart, the amount of HLCs basically negates both of those making some dead upgrades. Focusing on combat power>focusing on additional defensive measures with XXX.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, building a defensive list centered around pulling crits off of friendly ships, especially Biggs is a proven strategy, but the entire list should not be anchored around it, especially if all of the high end X-wings are already big targets. Biggs works best shepherding either a single heavy hitter or multiple low PS guys who would normally not have a shot because they would be dead or left without anything to modify attacks because their actions are spent on defense.

Edited by InstantAequitas

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If you're area has a high number of HLCs then double DTF isn't as strong a defensive combination in the current Meta. On the other hand once Mangler Cannons become official the number of Criticals should increase, furthermore with the Raider and ATC. 

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If you're area has a high number of HLCs then double DTF isn't as strong a defensive combination in the current Meta. On the other hand once Mangler Cannons become official the number of Criticals should increase, furthermore with the Raider and ATC. 

Mangler Cannons, Greedo, Advanced Targeting Computers, Chiraneau.... Yeah, the Mercenary Co-Pilot has a lot of friends now.

 

Moreover, Crits have a higher chance of being un-canceled than Hits do, as they're canceled last.

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If you're area has a high number of HLCs then double DTF isn't as strong a defensive combination in the current Meta. On the other hand once Mangler Cannons become official the number of Criticals should increase, furthermore with the Raider and ATC. 

Mangler Cannons, Greedo, Advanced Targeting Computers, Chiraneau.... Yeah, the Mercenary Co-Pilot has a lot of friends now.

 

Moreover, Crits have a higher chance of being un-canceled than Hits do, as they're canceled last.

 

 

I think Greedo is exempt from the DTF list. His effect is a card effect not adding Critical Results. 

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If you're area has a high number of HLCs then double DTF isn't as strong a defensive combination in the current Meta. On the other hand once Mangler Cannons become official the number of Criticals should increase, furthermore with the Raider and ATC. 

Mangler Cannons, Greedo, Advanced Targeting Computers, Chiraneau.... Yeah, the Mercenary Co-Pilot has a lot of friends now.

 

Moreover, Crits have a higher chance of being un-canceled than Hits do, as they're canceled last.

 

 

I think Greedo is exempt from the DTF list. His effect is a card effect not adding Critical Results. 

 

Sorry, I just mentally re-posted my list of what Leebo + Determination is great against.

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Ya Determination is an awesome card. Toss in an R5- Astromech and and you're pretty much Critical Immune, too bad the 2 ships that can naturally take both are X's and E's their Hull value is rather low to make good use of both.

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Here's an alternate take on the 3X List. 

 

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 29
Veteran Instincts 1
R7 Astromech 2
Engine Upgrade 4
 
Wes Janson — X-Wing 29
Veteran Instincts 1
R3-A2 2
Engine Upgrade 4
 
Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 25
R5-P9 3
 

It has the option for flying the traditional 3X with everyone inside the Biggs Bubble.

 

Or with Wedge on the outside Flank. And Wes within the Biggsphere.

With this setup depending where you place Wedge at PS11 should put some hindrance on your opponent's battle plan. Wedge clearly is the 'Ace' in the list he's also the Decoy. 

He should be moving last against most Builds, which means you have 2 defensive options at your disposal R7 + TL or Boosting out of arc. 

 

Wedge being Wedge as pointed out is naturally a high threat target. If you can get your opponent to chase him around the more 'free' shots Biggs and Wes can throw against Wedge's Tails.

 

I know there's a few people who think 'flying evasive' for an extended time is 'unsportsmanlike' but if you using it as a measure to setup other shots 1-3 turns later how is it considered a Bad Mannered strategy? 

 

Anyways, just a list and some tactics behind placing your Ace outside the pocket.  

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Here's an alternate take on the 3X List. 

 

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 29

Veteran Instincts 1

R7 Astromech 2

Engine Upgrade 4

 

Wes Janson — X-Wing 29

Veteran Instincts 1

R3-A2 2

Engine Upgrade 4

 

Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 25

R5-P9 3

 

It has the option for flying the traditional 3X with everyone inside the Biggs Bubble.

 

Or with Wedge on the outside Flank. And Wes within the Biggsphere.

With this setup depending where you place Wedge at PS11 should put some hindrance on your opponent's battle plan. Wedge clearly is the 'Ace' in the list he's also the Decoy. 

He should be moving last against most Builds, which means you have 2 defensive options at your disposal R7 + TL or Boosting out of arc. 

 

Wedge being Wedge as pointed out is naturally a high threat target. If you can get your opponent to chase him around the more 'free' shots Biggs and Wes can throw against Wedge's Tails.

 

I know there's a few people who think 'flying evasive' for an extended time is 'unsportsmanlike' but if you using it as a measure to setup other shots 1-3 turns later how is it considered a Bad Mannered strategy? 

 

Anyways, just a list and some tactics behind placing your Ace outside the pocket.

I love the Idea behind this, but I would suggest an R2 astromech instead of R7 and cutting R5-P9 for PtL on Wedge. The extra 1 point can be an R2 astro on Biggs, but more often than not it is really better to just run him naked.

Biggs may have problems keeping up with everyone who has EU, but if he is just going to travel with Wes anyway, why not convert Wes's EU into an R2-D2 for good ol Biggs and let them slow roll all the way up.

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