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Cogniczar

Editable Calixis Sector Map

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I see Sleef on both the Calixis Sector and Scarus Sector maps... but coreward rimward spinward and trailing seem to be pointing in skewed directions.

 

Do you know if you could match up where the two maps point in relation to each other?

 

I'm trying to fit two other sectors, then Ixanid, Medusa, Caliban and the Kronus Reach around here somewhere... but I'm getting all scrambled.

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That Rocks! It also makes a lot more sense because I was getting all twisted around.

So Abidel's trailing, coreward, corner would clip Scarus's spinward, rimward corner. Got it.

BTW, what's that tiny little map centered on Sleef?

Edit: Hmm, Only War has its conflict near the periphery doesn't it? Probably OW's campaign map then?

Edited by SirRunOn

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BTW, what's that tiny little map centered on Sleef?

Edit: Hmm, Only War has its conflict near the periphery doesn't it? Probably OW's campaign map then?

 

It's the Spinward Front map, otherwise known as the Periphery of the Calixis Sector and the sessionist state of the Severan Dominate. ^^.

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It is still somewhat confusing because I know under the description for Prol IX it mentions that it has a stable warp route leading into the Scarus Sector.  Judging by the sector locations, it seems possibly incorrect?

 

~ alemander

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It is still somewhat confusing because I know under the description for Prol IX it mentions that it has a stable warp route leading into the Scarus Sector.  Judging by the sector locations, it seems possibly incorrect?

 

~ alemander

 

I wouldn't use warp routes to judge 2d map positioning. My quick ditto is a rough guide lacking accurate measurements. The nature of warp space is likewise not translatable to conventional logic. To quote older material on the subject:

 

Warp space
Warp space is the medium through which faster-than-light spacecraft travel between the stars. It is, in a sense, an alternate reality or parallel dimension in which the laws of time and space are different from those of our own universe. Movement within warp space are different from those of our own universe. Movement within warp space bears a distinct relationship to distance travelled in normal space, and this relationship can be manipulated to make faster-than-light travel possible. It is not strictly true to say that distances in warp space are 'shrunk' compared to those of normal space. A more accurate analogy would be to think of warp space as a dense fluid medium which is subject to constant movement, currents, undertows, etc. This is not perceptible in warp space itself of course, because the fluidity is only relative to our own reality. A spacecraft can exploit this phenomenon  by entering warp space, allowing itself to be shifted along by its natural flow, and then re-entering normal space a distance away from the starting point. A metaphor commonly used to explain how warping works is that of the fast flowing stream. The stream represents warp space, moving rapidly along its motionless banks, representing real space. A leaf dropped into the water upstream will move along, floating on the surface of the water. The leaf does not move relative to the water, but is merely carried by it until it lodges at some point downstream from its original location. This is a useful metaphor as far as it goes, but it must be remembered warp space is far more complex in its movements than the linear stream, for it can move in all sorts of convoluted and bewildering patterns. Spacecraft are also able to make corrective movements in warp space and can enter or leave warp space at a chosen moment. Even so, warp travel is never totally predictable, either in its duration or eventual destination.
Warp space is closely linked to psychic phenomena. There is a school of thought which believes psychic powers to be an ability to tap energy from warp space. According to this theory, a psyker has a mental or spiritual ink with a point or points in warp space. If this is true, then it explains how many psychically aware creatures are able to 'home-in' to psychic vibrations, or even to traverse warp space itself in some cases. Certainly the relationship between the two kinds of space is a complex one, and is not fully understood.

 

 

To summarize, while Prol IX does have a stable warp route leading into the Scarus Sector, it has no bearing on the fact that it's not the nearest location in the materium towards it. 
 
=D
 
Either way, the warp route might look something like if represented on a conventional map
 
segmentum_obscurus_positioning_map___sta
Edited by Cogniczar

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I've looked it over, with some background maps of the 40k galaxy from different time periods and I figure I've got the idea what the confusion is.

 

If you notice in the Only War map, things we think of as being east-west compared to each other, like Sleef and Sinophia are suddenly north-south in that map compared to spinward coreward, etc.  Why would that be possible? Also why would Prol, with should be on the border of Calixis-Scarus be far away from the border?  The entire Only War map is turned on its side, with none of the directions matching the calixis map.  How can that be?

 

It's actually simple.  GW, between 5th(when DH1 and RT came out) and 6th(OW, DH2) edition came out, MOVED Scarus sector.

 

In the original fluff, Scarus sector was a bulwark right on the edge of the Eye of Terror, abutting it's Western side.  Ophidia sub was all but on top of the Eye(which was why it had to be retaken, and why so many titans were stationed there they LOST TRACK of some of them).  Calixis, which was positioned in relation to Scarus, by that regard should have it's coreward area to the galactic East, and so should Scarus.  The Skar-us sector uprising, a 4th edition happening, along with the Eye of Terror campaign(might have been late 3rd), also made far more sense.  A huge waagh right on the edge of the eye, pulling away forces from the cadian gate was a major problem.

 

Then came 6th edition, and locationally speaking everything went to hell in a handbasket.  Scarus, which was always galactic south-west of Caliban, almost bordering it, got hurled thousands of light years northward by GW's arbitrary and mind-boggling rewrite of the galactic map.  Now Scarus is almost due north of Caliban, and the core is very much south of it.  That puts coreward, which was at the right side of the map, at the bottom of the map, and flips everything helter skelter.

 

Along comes FFG, and they probably lost their lunch.  Their old book, which had the core to the right/east of Calixis is now out the window by a useless retcon, they can't go back and change it, and they have to write their new books with the core to the south, totally invalidating their old maps.

 

That's why Scarus and OW Periphery are at right angles to Calixis and Kronos.  GW went and moved the galaxy.

 

Compare a 3rd/4th edition map:

 

http://hatzcampaign.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/eye_of_terror_map.jpg

 

Hopefully that shrinks o_O,

 

to a 6th edition map... I think it's in french I'll admit but...

 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/7/70/Galaxy_black_reach.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/587?cb=20100902064513

 

Or this great one, that puts us WAY out in the middle of east bumble nowhere and turns the screaming vortex into the gamma quadrant portal from star trek!

 

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/23/Screaming_Vortex_Location_Map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130405173016

 

At least it puts Vraks in the right place... too bad somehow Calixis got galactic north of Scarus...

 

P.S. if this **** site doesn't let this my @#$%ing 4th try through I'm going to SCREAM.  I had to replace ALL the images with links.

Edited by SirRunOn

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40k cartography has always been rather mind-boggling, as if there is another Great chaos power pulling the strings...Cathos, Lord of Confusion and Misdirection.

 

I think the relative positioning is good (discounting the Scarus relocation thing). As for absolute size and distance between sectors, not so much perhaps.

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Well, second time I'm writing this. Browser crashed and I can't access the save on tablet... Horrible luck.

Yeah Cogniczar, at least the modern locations are somewhat consistent. Though they don't quite agree to the orientation of the three sectors.

http://redelf.narod.ru/pi/w40k/eot_campaign.jpg

Is a great map, if you can see it, that shows the original positions relative to the eye and gives BFG sector battlemaps.

Ooh I found the older campaign map.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/20045674/images/1343464012464.jpg

I'm only harping on the difference between old and new because I believe ffg changed the sector orientations and all the maps save Finial should be oriented in the same way as Calixis.

No one's wrong if that's what your worried about. It's just the alteration of fluff.

Edited by SirRunOn

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Further complicating (but in many ways actually simplifying) the problem is the fact that the Warp is under absolutely no obligation to have anything to do with the Materium at all. That's how Warp travel works in the first place, areas which are a thousand light years from one another in the Materium are about 10,000 times closer together in the Warp, so you pop into the Warp, fire up to near-light speed for a month or so until you reach the part of the Warp that connects to your destination, and then pop back out. Typically it's assume that the Warp is laid out basically the same as the Materium but much smaller in scale, but it really doesn't have to be. It would be entirely sensible to be in Segmentum Solar, enter the warp, start heading west, and then exit the Warp and find yourself in Segmentum Ultima, which is east of Segmentum Solar in the Materium. For the sake of not being abominably complicated it's usually assumed that directions in the Warp map loosely to directions in realspace so that, for example, you don't get two planets that are in the same system in the Materium but on opposite ends of the Warp from each other, or planets that are on opposite ends of the Materium but right next to each other in the Warp. But just because the Warp is loosely aligned with the Materium doesn't mean the directions can't go wonky on a smaller scale (after all, the distances totally do go wonky). So it seriously isn't weird that you head east into the Warp and end up in a sector to the south, and the reason for maps getting juggled around can seriously be as simple as "the Warp changed its mind."

 

It would be nice if Games Workshop would have some consistent astrography, though. Maps aren't like fluff, you can't mix and match the stuff you like while ignoring the stuff you don't. It's a lot of work revising different maps to fit with each other.

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Well, second time I'm writing this. Browser crashed and I can't access the save on tablet... Horrible luck.

 

I couldn't type earlier. I was simply adding my references I had been using. I don't disagree with your views - Scarus has moved a bit, but it can be reconciled. I'm going to try to do so later.

 

 

I'm only harping on the difference between old and new because I believe ffg changed the sector orientations and all the maps save Finial should be oriented in the same way as Calixis.

 

My feelings for six and seventh edition could be relatable to this:

 

no.gif

 

Tasteless joke aside, it does have to to be taken into account that in older materials, the Scarus Sector stretched from bordering the Eye of Terror all the way to the Halo Stars, with the Helican Sub-Sector being placed where the Calixis Sector now resides. With the addition of new material, it is to be expected for shuffling around to occur. 

 

I'm going to endeavor to get a good, roughly correspondant positioning map done by layering these maps on my document and seeing how it works out. ^^. Your input is helpful. I originally through this together using the images I posted earlier as my only references. 

 

Edit: 

 

It should be noted, that the Scarus map is roughly in the right spot for it's own internal coordinates. Thracis Primaris is coreward from Eustis Majoris, with Ophidia facing spinward. 

Edited by Cogniczar

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Yeah, here's the very first Scarus sector map if you don't have a copy of it.

 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/d/df/Scarus_Sector.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100828005448

 

And most everything I've been using:

 

http://battlefleet.forum-actif.net/t1128-cartographie-salle-des-cartes

 

Oh when I said I'd had to reload twice, it's because I can't paste or put pictures here in internet explorer or my tablet.  I've had crashes when I tried so I've been having to recompose entire messages three or four times.

 

The orientation of Scarus has always been odd compared to Calixis.  It would have been fine for them, and not made any difference, if they hadn't made the Only War map the way they had, at a right angle to the previous material..

 

The real kick in the teeth is that spinward/trailing are directions on the spiral arm, which as it name suggests is a spiral and points in a different direction depending upon where you are on it.  In the north that spiral arm aligns right/left east/west, but by the eye of terror the arm aligns up/down north/south.  That means spinward and trailing only have a meaning in relation to their exact location in the arm.  Hell they could be @#$%ing diagonal @_@...

 

*Bangs his head on the desk*  This suuuuucccckkkssss...  I started like "hey where is this so I can fit this other thing in here?" and I'm ending up "where the @#$% is ANYTHING?!"

Edited by SirRunOn

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They're the same thing.

 

Spinward is left at the top, down at the right, right at the bottom and up at the left.

 

Think about it as a circular track.  If you're going in the nascar direction the center/core is always off to your left no matter what direction you're going, and the rim is always off to the right.  Trailing however is always straight ahead if you follow the track.

 

It's not a spiral, but this is the best I can do at short notice.

 

88UT7p.png

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segmentum_obscurus_positioning_map_by_so

 

 

Conclusions based on this arrangement:

 

- The Sleef Outward (Scarus Sector) would fall into the Mergent Worlds subsector. Im going to update my Scarus Sector Map with the removal of the Periphery reference. 

- Spinward front map most definitely needs to have it's facings changed. I'm going to make my own version eventually. 

Edited by Cogniczar

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From left to right:

 

Kronos

The Black Crusade Map(the little red box in the kronos map)

Calixis

The Only War Map(the small one next to calixis)

Ixanid(under calixis)

Scarus(Large map right of Calixis)

No idea on the little one between Scarus and The DH2 Map

Finial(one closest to the eye)

DH2 map(below and right of Scarus) can't remember the name of that sector yet

Not sure what the top middle map is

Gothic Sector(waaaaaay to the right)

 

I'm sure Cognic will have a bit more detail.

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If that one on the right is supposed to be the Gothic Sector, it doesn't line up with the underlying map at all. Port Maw is in the Gothic Sector and is positioned closer to the Eye of Terror than to that map on the far right. Is this a problem with retcons or a typo or something?

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From left to right:

 

Kronos

The Black Crusade Map(the little red box in the kronos map)

Calixis

The Only War Map(the small one next to calixis)

Ixanid(under calixis)

Scarus(Large map right of Calixis)

No idea on the little one between Scarus and The DH2 Map

Finial(one closest to the eye)

DH2 map(below and right of Scarus) can't remember the name of that sector yet

Not sure what the top middle map is

Gothic Sector(waaaaaay to the right)

 

I'm sure Cognic will have a bit more detail.

 

The map between Scarus and the Askellon sector is my fanmade Lileathean Cascades map. 

The top middle map is my Laurentiis Scarification map I made. 

 

I did not make the underlying map, but the Port Maw thing is definitely a misplacement. Otherwise, most of the map is generally spot-on. 

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It's funny, because Battlefleet Gothic is pretty clear about the Gothic Sector being near the Segmentum Ultima border. That was the only way they could justify getting the Tau involved (even then it was a stretch). But every single galactic map I've found puts Port Maw right in the middle of Segmentum Obscurus. I'd thought there was probably a retcon sometime between when BFG stopped being a thing and now.

Edited by Lupa

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Good morning!

 

I've been experimenting with sector maps (Askellon complete map), and now it's Calixis turn. I've been reading the Encyclopaedia Calixia topic and added some Lathe Worlds stations to a more complete Calixis sector map.

 

The map is in pdf format, in spanish and with notes (in english) indicating the presumably ubication of the different planets, systems and stations appeared in DH first edition books. I'm looking for an expertised look to analyse the right or mostly possible situation of these add-ons before add them ultimately.

 

Thanks for your time and help.  ;)

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http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a6/Map_of_the_Spinward_Front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130216060914

 

The spinward Front is detailed more in Only War, and is the source for many of the planets your noting in the Periphery.

 

Terimiv I path would probably be on the lefthand border since that is the general direction of Koronus.

 

Great work Meriba!

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