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KennedyHawk2

Rules Question - Movement Points and Contraband Speed Penalty

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Rules question that came up in Skirmish last night.

 

When a figure activates they gain movement points up to their speed. They can then spend these points whenever they like during their activation. So if you want you can gain your speed in movement points, say 4, move two spaces open a door and then continue moving two inside the door.

 

In the Smuggling Goods skirmish scenario players are tasked with smuggling crates containing contraband to their deployment zone. When carrying a crate a figure has a -2 Speed penalty that is applied to their speed stat.

 

How does this work with movement points already gained this activation. If a character is two spaces from picking up the crate can they gain 4 movement points through a move action, move two, and then still move two after (sort of getting a little bonus neglecting the -2 penalty since the move was taken before?). Likewise, can a unit adjacent to a crate take a move action to gain movement points, then pick up the crate and move their full speed.

 

It doesn't seem very thematic that the penalty wouldn't be applied after you pick up the crate but by the rules this seems to be the only way we can get this to work. We submitted a rules question on this but I thought I'd ask on the boards in case anyone else has come into this situation.

Edited by KennedyHawk

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As far as I understand it you're right if the action is used to gain the movement points and there is no penalty I can see to movement points gained prior to picking up the crate.

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Just want to point out that a figure DOES NOT receive movement points up to their speed when they first activate as you said.

 

They have to use one of their actions to receive the movement points.

 

But I agree with the previous response in regards to how it would work picking up the contraband.

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KennedyHawk, I am glad you posted this since I have had the same question.  This is especially problematic on models which are already fast and then use the Urgency command card.  

 

As an example, I had a Royal Guard Champion (RGC) next to a crate.  I got initiative on the subsequent turn.  I used Urgency to make the RGC get 8 (!) movement points. He then picked up the crate and ran all the way back to my deployment zone, basically sealing me the game.  Now granted, that same deal would have been pretty bad even at 6 movement points, but you can imagine Luke/Saboteurs doing a move, grabbing a crate and running super fast before the speed penalty kicked in.

 

To be safe, we have been just playing it that as soon as you pick up the crate you lose 2 movement points if you had any remaining.

 

I hope this gets FAQ'ed.  Otherwise I think this mission favors the person who gets initiative turn 2 pretty heavily. Since its entirely possible to get Sabotuers to two different crates turn 1, then get/take the initiative turn 2 and run away in a single activation.

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As far as I understand it you're right if the action is used to gain the movement points and there is no penalty I can see to movement points gained prior to picking up the crate.

This is correct. Only the move action after you have the crate has the speed penalty.

I hope this gets FAQ'ed.  Otherwise I think this mission favors the person who gets initiative turn 2 pretty heavily. Since its entirely possible to get Sabotuers to two different crates turn 1, then get/take the initiative turn 2 and run away in a single activation.

There is a few things to do to help yourself win. Firstly you could try and take initiative. Make sure you have troops to take out anyone carring the crate. And even if you lose one crate defend and take the other two.

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As far as I understand it you're right if the action is used to gain the movement points and there is no penalty I can see to movement points gained prior to picking up the crate.

This is correct. Only the move action after you have the crate has the speed penalty.

I hope this gets FAQ'ed.  Otherwise I think this mission favors the person who gets initiative turn 2 pretty heavily. Since its entirely possible to get Sabotuers to two different crates turn 1, then get/take the initiative turn 2 and run away in a single activation.

There is a few things to do to help yourself win. Firstly you could try and take initiative. Make sure you have troops to take out anyone carring the crate. And even if you lose one crate defend and take the other two.

 

The point is you hold the Sabotuers in your Deployment Zone.  They activate last if at all possible so they cannot be attacked the first round and also allows you to switch to a different crate if needed.  When they activate, they both high-tail it to two different crates (10 move points should be more than sufficient).  When you get initiative (either by normal transfer or by stealing it) you immediately activate BOTH Saboteurs. You move and pick up the crate then high-tail it 5 spaces back toward your deploy zone with BOTH (maybe more if you have appropriate command cards).  Obviously the remainder of your list does its best to screen this action and kill any challengers to it.  Even if they manage to kill them, the crates are now very near your DZ, and you have more figs to pick it up.  I actually think you just accelerate the strategy by killing them since figs like Luke/whatever can just do a move, grab the crate and daisy chain it home.

 

Also worth noting if you steal the initiative, your opponent (by RAW unless a FAQ changes it) cannot take it back. See the other rules question about this.

 

This has the potential to basically guarantee you 30 VPs early in the game.  Even better, the Saboteurs have 4 health and the elite versions, when they come out, will likely have 6+ each.  Good luck killing that when literally the other 35 pts of the Rebel list are going to try and prevent it/punish you.

 

In short, you need to immediately lose the movement points or its wayyyy too easy to just play grab and drop all the way to the bank. If they decide to not kill you, then great, run like the wind for your 30 VPs.

 

I'm not saying its perfect, but I do think that even if you only get one easily but setup the other for a later grab, it is very hard to lose this mission.  Obviously the worst thing that can happen is that your opponent starts with init and then steals/keeps it turn 2, but then at least your Saboteurs are now in position to be able to stun the likely crate grabbers from the opposing side (who will most certainly be trying to do the same thing).

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Rules question that came up in Skirmish last night.

 

When a figure activates they gain movement points up to their speed. They can then spend these points whenever they like during their activation. So if you want you can gain your speed in movement points, say 4, move two spaces open a door and then continue moving two inside the door.

 

In the Smuggling Goods skirmish scenario players are tasked with smuggling crates containing contraband to their deployment zone. When carrying a crate a figure has a -2 Speed penalty that is applied to their speed stat.

 

How does this work with movement points already gained this activation. If a character is two spaces from picking up the crate can they gain 4 movement points through a move action, move two, and then still move two after (sort of getting a little bonus neglecting the -2 penalty since the move was taken before?). Likewise, can a unit adjacent to a crate take a move action to gain movement points, then pick up the crate and move their full speed.

 

It doesn't seem very thematic that the penalty wouldn't be applied after you pick up the crate but by the rules this seems to be the only way we can get this to work. We submitted a rules question on this but I thought I'd ask on the boards in case anyone else has come into this situation.

I'd disagree. Referring to the Rules Reference page 20 "Movement Points" first paragraph:

• Any time a figure gains movement points, they are added to the remaining total of movement points that figure possesses.

It's been a loooong time since I've studied math but I recoll that when you subtract Y from X you're actually adding negative Y.

So turning back to our example: when you pick up a crate you gain -2 movement points and so in reference to the section quoted above you now have 2 less. So in your example the guy is stuck at and with the crate.

My math Kung Fu is weaker than in high school but I believe this is correct and it certainly makes sense, maybe even common sense.

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Forensicus, I do believe that FFG will say you lose the movement points when you pick up the crate (if you have any remaining), but I am going to quibble with you.

 

 

 

Any time a figure gains movement points...

 

Means to me that you have to actually gain for this to come into play.  In this case you would not be "gaining" you would be losing.  The language doesn't support "well from a certain point of view you gain a negative".  I honestly think RAW is you keep any movement you have.

 

That all being said, I think it make the mission more interesting if you lose the points, and that's how my group has been playing it.  I expect FFG will either FAQ or errata this to make it such, otherwise its entirely possible to trivialize the mission a bit too much.  I think its pretty obvious the speed debuff is there so that the opponent has more time to kill your guy, and if you play by RAW, it really doesn't do much there.

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Forensicus, I do believe that FFG will say you lose the movement points when you pick up the crate (if you have any remaining), but I am going to quibble with you.

 

 

 

Any time a figure gains movement points...

 

Means to me that you have to actually gain for this to come into play.  In this case you would not be "gaining" you would be losing.  The language doesn't support "well from a certain point of view you gain a negative".  I honestly think RAW is you keep any movement you have.

 

That all being said, I think it make the mission more interesting if you lose the points, and that's how my group has been playing it.  I expect FFG will either FAQ or errata this to make it such, otherwise its entirely possible to trivialize the mission a bit too much.  I think its pretty obvious the speed debuff is there so that the opponent has more time to kill your guy, and if you play by RAW, it really doesn't do much there.

 

Yup and the mission applied a -2 penalty to your speed not movement points. I encourage everyone to submit this as a question. I got the generic "We are gathering rules questions to come up with an FAQ with the most commonly asked ones we will get back to you after that" response.

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