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Bard Class Skills?

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I have a question about interaction between bard's skill "Song of Mending" and Tristayne Olliven plot card "Soul Ensnare". Plot card reads as "Exhaust this card at the end of your turn. While this card is exhausted, each time a knocked-out hero recovers 1 or more hp, each hero within 3 spaces of that hero suffers 1 hp".

So f.e. we had 3 heroes including bard that are defeated and close enough (within 3 spaces from any other hero). Bard has song of mending in restore hp mode. He performs a stand up action. All other heroes can't take damage from "Soul Ensnare" so skip it. But then his song activates and everyone else stand up with 1 hp. Would they die immediately?

Edited by Letanir

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Soul Ensnare takes place at the end of the OL turn.

 

Nope, the card takes effect "while it is exausted". I think all heroes would be defeated, as they recover health simoultaneosly, and is after that when Soul Snare would deal the damage. That said, what would happen with the bard then? Would he suffer only 1 damge, or 1 per hero revived?

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Soul Ensnare takes place at the end of the OL turn. If a hero is knocked out, it can't suffer any wound. There would be no bearing on the Bards later use of song of mending at the end of HIS turn.

Well Soul ensnare works all heroes turn, right? It says "while this card is exhausted...". So it's still works on bard's turn. If not then I'm just don't understand how it works.

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Soul Ensnare takes place at the end of the OL turn. If a hero is knocked out, it can't suffer any wound. There would be no bearing on the Bards later use of song of mending at the end of HIS turn.

Well Soul ensnare works all heroes turn, right? It says "while this card is exhausted...". So it's still works on bard's turn. If not then I'm just don't understand how it works.

Whoops. My bad on the "while exhausted..."

1) stand up. This triggers soul ensnare, but there are no heroes within 3 spaces of him (except for himself)- he would suffer 1 wound.

2) Then, his turn ends. He recovers 1 wound. He then chooses 1 hero to recover 1 wound. That hero (and the Bard) would suffer 1 wound.

3) Then, he picks another hero. That hero recovers 1 wound, and then he and each hero within 3 of him suffers 1 wound.

4)Then, the last hero, same thing happens.

Each time a hero stands up, that hero would then suffer a wound, and so would the bard (since the bard was close enough to stand him up.)

I believe this is the case because the card remains exhausted and says "each time". The only way this would not work is if all heroes being revived is "one time" but I don't think so.

Edited by Zaltyre

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I don't agree with Tristayne being a good choice against the Bard. I rarely find that I can actually knock down all the party no matter how hard I try with a competent bard player. I can get one or maybe two with focused fire, but that card isn't going to do the trick.

 

Tristayne has a really fun plot deck, and in terms of interest, is probably my favorite overall (not as powerful as Baron Z but nobody is really). It's really solid and has a lot of options and use, but I wouldn't describe it as a counter to the Bard.

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The bards class skill forgot name says

When he places a song token on a skill he may move 1 space.

It doesn't say gain 1 movement point therefore can the bard move into a water space with this "move one space" skill?

Also does the bard only pay the fatigue cost when placing the song token? And then until removed the ability happens everytime without he fatigue cost?

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The skill is "Wayfarer." Yes, 1 space is one space, water or not.

 

The fatigue cost is to place the token- the abilities generally activate whenever that token is on the card, unless the bard is knocked out. Check the Nerekhall rulebook for instructions on when to leave, and when to remove the tokens.

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No. Heroes cannot use their abilities while they are knocled out unless the ability says "while KO..." Other heroes might be able to benefit from a KO hero's abilities. However, in the case of of most of the bard's other skills, they won't work because the bard is not on the map.

Even though Concentration doesn't have a range requirement, the bard cannot use it while KO because of the rules about being KO.

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Even about  "At the start of your turn, ....  you recover 1 heart and  1 fatigue"  ?  

Because it doesn't say "use" or "exhaust". 

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Even about "At the start of your turn, .... you recover 1 heart and 1 fatigue" ?

Because it doesn't say "use" or "exhaust".

Correct. "A hero cannot use skills or abilities while knocked out" includes "use," "exhaust," and passives. For example, Ispher does NOT automatically recover 2 health at the start of a turn when he is KO (never needing a standup or revive.) Edited by Zaltyre

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When  Song of Mending , Understudy and Concentration  to heal a hero , 

Will Understudy be active twice ? 

 

Edcy, you have one harmony token (fa clef) and one melody token (treble clef). You can't put a single token in two different cards at the same time. So, when intending to heal a hero, you must choose the melody effect on "song of mending" or the melody effect on "understudy".

 

That said, let's try to rephrase your doubt. Concentration states that you need to have your song tokens allocated in different class cards to get the passive bonus of +1 hearth, +1 fatigue per turn. Also says you can exhaust the "concentration" class card to add +2 hearths to any hero within 3 spaces (including yourself) that receive +1 hearth or more.

 

We have then two ways to heal up heroes:

 

a) Keeping your melody token on understudy will not work as intended, because you need to have at least +1 hearth healed, and with this set up on "understudy", you wont be able to start the chain healing. However, if you use Avric as a bard for instance, when a hero trade one surge for one hearth (Avric Hero Ability), the melody effect on "understudy" will trigger - having in mind you must be within 3 spaces of the target to meet the requirements. On the same turn, as a second attack action, that hero can spend another surge to recover 1 more hearth, actually triggering one more time the melody effect on "understudy". So, you can have understudy to trigger twice or even more times on a giving turn. You can, on this opportunity, exhaust "concentration" to add +2 hearths to the hero.

 

b) Let's say you want instead to put your melody token of song of mending, and your harmony token on understudy. So, at the end of your turn, you and all heroes within 3 spaces of you will get +1 hearth. When this occurs, you can also exhaust concentration to add up +2 hearths to any hero you wish within 3 spaces of you (including yourself).

 

You have to be in mind that once the song tokens are allocated, the Bard class will passively work with the related card effects choosen. These effects on the class cards can trigger one or more times per turn, and in the case of "song of mending" and "understudy", at no further fatigue cost to the Bard.

Edited by Dommus

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Sorry,I forgot to say this : one of both songs is activate by cacophony ,another one is activate by song token

And I just want to confirm the hero will receive 4 or 5 heart at this condition .

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Sorry,I forgot to say this : one of both songs is activate by cacophony ,another one is activate by song token

And I just want to confirm the hero will receive 4 or 5 heart at this condition .

 

Interesting example. We are talking about a Bard with a total of 6 experience points (1xp -"understudy", 2xp - "concentration", 3xp - "Cacophony"). Ok, thats the deal (That's only possible because of "cacophony" being exhausted at the start of turn):

 

a) If you have your song tokens allocated on different cards, you can at this point heal self passively by +1 hearth at the start of your turn. Then, if you have all heroes within 3 spaces, they will be healed by +1 hearth each (melody effect on "song of mending") at the end of turn, and an extra +1 hearth (melody effect on "understudy"). So, if all heroes are on reach, two of them will get +2 hearths, Bard gets +4 hearths (+1 passive from "concentration", plus +1 "understudy", +1 "song of mending", plus +1 "understudy" )  and the 4th hero will get + 5 on this given turn (+1 "song of mending", plus +1 "understudy" and +2 from exhausting "concentration", plus +1 "understudy").

 

  • Bard: +4
  • Hero 1: +2
  • Hero 2: +2
  • Hero 3: +5 (target of "concentration")

►Total of +13 hearths overall.

 

b) However, the Bard can choose instead to heal himself with "concentration". In this case, we have at the start of turn the bard to heal himself for +1 hearth from "concentration" passive effect, plus +1 from "understudy", at the end of turn +1 hearth each hero in reach plus +1 from "understudy", and then the bard trigger "concentration" effect healing +2 hearths from himself, plus +1 "understudy", making a self heal total of +7 hearths in a single turn!

 

  • Bard: +7 (target of "concentration")
  • Hero 1: +2
  • Hero 2: +2
  • Hero 3: +2

►Total of +13 hearths overall.

 

Just for the record, this is one example of "understudy" triggering three times in a single turn, and be aware that the bard STILL have his two actions in the turn :mellow:.

Edited by Dommus

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The exhaustion of concentration (2 additional) does NOT trigger understudy again. Let's say the bard has understudy active.

-He heals 1 from some arbitrary source.

-This allows 2 things to trigger: understudy (heal 1 additional) and concentration (heal 2 additional). Both of these effects add to the original healing- they are not separate instances.

The result is he heals (1+1+2) = 4. He does NOT heal (1+1) +(2+1) = 5.

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Zaltyre is right. Since "concentration" is a triggered effect, it does not cause "understudy" to trigger again, if so, we would have an infinite loop. Ty Zalt. Let's make amends on the example above:

 

  • Bard: +4 (1+1) + (1+1)
  • Hero 1: +2 (1+1)
  • Hero 2: +2 (1+1)
  • Hero 3: +4 (1+1+2), (target of "concentration")

►Total of +12 hearths overall.

 

  • Bard: +6 (1+1+2) + (1+1), (target of "concentration")
  • Hero 1: +2 (1+1)
  • Hero 2: +2 (1+1)
  • Hero 3: +2 (1+1)

►Total of +12 hearths overall.

 

I think it's correct now.

Edited by Dommus

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