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daddystabz

Thoughts about the system

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We played the initial rising so there wasn't many zombies to gang up. Situational dice for the zombies never really came up because the players were very cautious. Even with one or two extra dice needing 1's made it extremely difficult to hurt anyone.

Edited by The_Big_Show

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So, we gave this game a try tonight to test it out. Made a few small mistakes but that's par for the course when learning a new system. Couple of things though...

 

1. Everyone hated the character creation system. We tried it out and then just decided that 16 points spent as the player wants and then agree with one another about accuracy. Same with features. I think everyone would have prefered a skills based system but it was ok.

 

2. Zombies seem to have a hell of a hard time hurting anyone. We are playing No More Room in Hell and and pretty much zombies rolled 2 dice and need 1's to do anything. It felt like you needed a horde of them to add more dice. I didn't feel, as GM, that zombies were threatening enough.

Wouldn't raising everyone's stats be the reason it was hard to hurt anyone?

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I've seen this pop up on a few topics - people saying that character creation sucks and 10 points isn't enough. 

 

From what I've read so far it seemed that 10 points might not be great but with the voting system characters are likely to end up spending more points than that - just getting a few negative features in the process. Also we're all playing ourselves here right? Not superheroes or warriors so we're not meant to be that strong.

 

What's the general problem people are having with character creation so far? 

Edited by Gaiduku

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You get 1 point by default in each, then you can increase by 10 points. So, you can have 4 out of the 6 stats at 2(33% chance) and the remaining 2 at 3(50% chance), if evenly distributed.  These don't seem unreasonable.

 

Correction it's more complicated than that simple math because positive and negative cancel each other out, and you roll multiple dice. 

But still seems reasonable. 

Edited by rustedghost

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Wouldn't raising everyone's stats be the reason it was hard to hurt anyone?

 

 

Actually no. Everyone gave themselves 2 Vitality because they see themselves as unfit. It was more the social and metal stats where everyone felt that they didn't have enough points. I had to agree.

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I've seen this pop up on a few topics - people saying that character creation sucks and 10 points isn't enough. 

 

From what I've read so far it seemed that 10 points might not be great but with the voting system characters are likely to end up spending more points than that - just getting a few negative features in the process. Also we're all playing ourselves here right? Not superheroes or warriors so we're not meant to be that strong.

 

What's the general problem people are having with character creation so far? 

 

We spent a good while on character creation to make sure we understood as a group how it worked. I think my players did themselves quite accurately but everyone seemed to need a couple more points to be truly accurate. They didn't come out as superheroes or anything.

 

The other element that everyone hated was the voting. If we had used that everyone would have been superheroic. By the rules it says if you agree on the stat or think it should be higher you put a positive dice dice in. The players all agreed that they had been accurate so but a positive in which would have increased stats across the board.

 

We are going to keep trying it when the time becomes available but while everyone enjoyed the game, we found the system lacking in general. Although more tongue in cheek, All Flesh has a better system.

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Wouldn't raising everyone's stats be the reason it was hard to hurt anyone?

 

 

Actually no. Everyone gave themselves 2 Vitality because they see themselves as unfit. It was more the social and metal stats where everyone felt that they didn't have enough points. I had to agree.

 

uhhh... so..

Using your 16 point house rule.  

Vit had 2/2

Mental had 5/4

Socail had 5/4

 

wtf lawl

 

To be more accurate,

Vit 2/2

Mental and Social had 4/4/5/5

Edited by rustedghost

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I should rephrase that looking back over the sheets to double check.  :)

 

This what they finally agreed on as their accurate stats. They did take negative traits where higher.

 

Player #1 (IT for an aeronautics firm).

Phys 3/3. Ment 4/3. Soc 3/2. 

 

Player #2 (Teaches politics at university).

Phys 2/2. Ment 4/2. Soc 3/3.

 

Player #3 (Trainee teacher).

Phys 3/2. Ment 3/3. Soc 3/3.

 

Player #4 (Mechanic).

Phys 2/2. Ment 3/3. Soc 3/2.

 

Player 5 (Office manager / Keep fit nut).

Phys 4 / 3. Ment 3/2. Soc 3/3.

 

And that is them as accurately as we could do. These guys are all normal non-survivour type guys. We went by 3 as an average stat since it doesn't actually list a rating in the book.

Edited by The_Big_Show

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By the rules it says if you agree on the stat or think it should be higher you put a positive dice dice in.

 

I thought that if you agree the stats are the way they should be, you put in both a positive AND negative die during voting. That way, they would cancel each other out when revealed to see whether the character needed to be adjusted.

Edited by Evil Genius Prime

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No stats can stay put. You put in both a positive and a negative dice in the bag. If there are an equal number of positive and negative dices in the bag at the end of voting it stays put. 

 

EDIT - Admittedly I imagine this is quite rare. 

Edited by Gaiduku

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He's right, you put both dice in for stats to stay put.

I'm nervous about this sytem. I've ran an AFMBE campaign for the last year or so and we closed that game in readiness for this. I've read through the rules, have a reasonably clear idea of the setting and I still really want to start a full campaign again, rather than a one shot, however, There's alot left to poetic interpretation. I have already started hashing some rules across, smashing down doors, explosives, single fire vs rapid fire on automatic weapons. I've made an inventory tetris system (to accommodate weight,encomberment) of equipment. Also I'm still not really clear When to give negative or positive dice, it leaves alot for the ZM (Gm) to rule and the first question my players ask is, so how do we earn xp. That features list is going to get real long after a month or so of play. Even with this worry I am real looking forward to getting stuck in. I'll be playing a take on the parasitic scenario however, putting the fungus spin and zombie arsenal from the Last of us to it.

Edited by Psychosis

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I think the features thing is going to take a while to grasp at first especially for the zombies. As I (and others) have said in other topics the book mentions a lot of NPC features and doesn't really clarify them at all. It's a clever idea and it's really loose but it's going to take some time to know when and where to add dice.

 

The rules basically say that the PCs will be asking for as many positive dice as possible, mentioning all sorts of things in their favour. I've experienced this first hand with the Star Wars system and it does get the players right in the thick of the narrative flow. They say they deserve a positive dice because the zombie is climbing stairs or because the man we're arguing with has already said he quite likes one of us. I reckon by leaving the "responsibility" of positive dice with the players it makes sure they stay engaged and offer up cool and interesting suggestions. 

 

Also remember when "levelling up" you can also increase a characteristic. The rules are super vague about this and just say you can do this when you would receive the same feature again. Again I can see the players pushing for this more than the GM which has to be great for engagement and the narrative. If the player already got Crack Shot in a previous session due to being a bad ass with a gun and then spends the a subsequent session being even more awesome with guns then the players could present the case for levelling up his Dexterity.

Edited by Gaiduku

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The system works great.

 

The character creation is simple and fun, The combat is simple for anyone to grasp, Less number crunching (For DND or other RPG players).

 

Though being a DND veteran, it did seem kinda boring at first, but then I realized as a GM, how significantly easier it was to keep things moving, anything from damage in a fight to making tests. Plus they are playing themselves so it's much more fun and can get much more intense from time to time. In DND when you face a encounter, the group, 90% of the time will be able to defeat a encounter, however in "The End of The World" RPG, even a group of 3 Zombies can kill a survivor with ease, all it takes is one bite.

 

It may be a more simplified version of other RPG's But it's simple rules for everything all work really great with each other. But like any other RPG, you will have a couple times when you question the rules.

 

As Gaiduku Says, The players will have to convince the GM why they deserve additional dice. Now as a GM it is your Job to Make up the negative dice outside the characters negative features.

 

Also when your lowering or raising your stats, remember that when you raise them you have to either Take an additional Negative feature or Lose your positive feature, and vice versa for lowering.

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So I was right? You put in a positive die AND a negative to vote that a stat stays put. I don't have my book yet, but they were doing it that way at my gaming store and assumed they were correct. Nice to know I got it right, while everyone else who actually has the book was getting it wrong. LOL! :P

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So I was right? You put in a positive die AND a negative to vote that a stat stays put. I don't have my book yet, but they were doing it that way at my gaming store and assumed they were correct. Nice to know I got it right, while everyone else who actually has the book was getting it wrong. LOL! :P

No, a couple of people had it wrong, but whether or not they actually have the book remains to be seen. I knew they had it wrong but didn't reply because...

 

No stats can stay put. You put in both a positive and a negative dice in the bag. If there are an equal number of positive and negative dices in the bag at the end of voting it stays put. 

 

EDIT - Admittedly I imagine this is quite rare. 

This poster corrected them quick enough.

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I'll but running a game next Wed. but I gotta say I love what I've read so far.

 

For those mentioning skill based systems, I suggest you think of Features like skills.

 

For those mentioning not enough build points, I would consider thinking of a 3 as average, so it makes sense that you'll have several 2s and maybe one 4, as very few people in the world are truly average. Also, if people are having trouble with succeeding, I would warrant that they are not getting enough adds from Features, equipment, assistance, and the environment. That is where things really start to add up.

 

I'm intrigued at the idea of a GM screen. What would go on it? More art on the inside? I don't see myself ever using a screen with this game...

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I'd love a screen that had a thousand Features listed in small print. That sort of thing is valuable for making an NPC on the fly.

 

Caul, I like your advice about Features essentially being skills. I'll handle it this way. One of them should definitely be an occupation, something that encompasses a whole host of smaller skill sets. And maybe a hobby feature, for the same reason. Rather than getting too cutesy with FATE-like Aspects ("Fashionably late to parties," etc.), I'd probably just look at a list of any RPG game and choose the skills that are most important to the character, "Perceptive," "Astronomer," "Rugby Player," "Charming," etc.

 

I also have a feeling that people tend to have a sweet spot for how many interests and faults they have, they sort of normalize, and some fall away as others take precedence, and some are combined and strengthened. The six Feature slots for each category feel like a good cap for a person. Trying to add a seventh will just replace one of them.

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