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X-Wing Slang Glossary

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Can someone please explain to me what a "knife fight" or "knife fighter" is and then add it to the glossary? Thanks.

I haven't heard that term in relation to X-Wing, but I have in other tactical space combat games.  In those games, it usually means close-in fighting, with a lot of jockeying for position in an attempt to score a killing blow.  I guess in terms of X-Wing, I might use it to describe two opposing non-turreted ships using lots of one banks and one turns in order to try and get heavier R1 damage on each other.  Other folk should feel free to chime in, if that's not correct.

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Generally, in space ship combat games, knife fighting means combat at extremely close range. IN x-Wings case, I would imagine it being used when ships are all clustered together and everyone is likely bumping into one or more ships.

 

Have to say though, don't know that I have ever heard the term used for X-Wing though.

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Generally, in space ship combat games, knife fighting means combat at extremely close range. IN x-Wings case, I would imagine it being used when ships are all clustered together and everyone is likely bumping into one or more ships.

 

Have to say though, don't know that I have ever heard the term used for X-Wing though.

 

I've come across it a number of times, seemingly always as the phrase, "the B-Wing is good in a knife fight".

 

The connotation in my mind sounds like a reference to the B-Wing's 2-speed K-turn as something useful in close combat. Kind of like a switchblade. Or something.

Edited by PaulTiberius

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Can someone please explain to me what a "knife fight" or "knife fighter" is and then add it to the glossary? Thanks.

I'm the guy who keeps using it for B-Wings.

 

Basically, at extremely close range, the B-Wing is terrifying, 'cause you can't get away fast enough to bring your guns to bear. It's just all up in your grill once it closes the gap.

Thus the knife-fight.

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Can someone please explain to me what a "knife fight" or "knife fighter" is and then add it to the glossary? Thanks.

 

The term knife fight comes from the old fighter pilot slang "Knife fight in a phone booth" implying an extremely close-quarters battle.  It gained currency in the modern era, in the age when it was thought missiles would be dominant.  Since sidewinders could engage opponents at 2-3 nautical miles initially (and farther than that these days) and now modern AIM-120 active radar guided missiles have a 100% PK (probability of kill) at 75 nautical miles, gun kills are considered to be the "knife fight in the phone booth."  The action which characterizes this kind of fight, is a close quarters dogfight at relatively low speeds (300-400 knots), utilizing the types of maneuvers common to earlier kinds of aerial combat like that seen in WW1 and WW2.

 

In terms of Star Wars, I don't have enough experience to figure out which ships are the best knife fighters, but in the computer games, the best dogfighters are always the lightest and most agile, so you'd call the A-wing and the TIE interceptor the best at the "knife fight in the phone booth" the way the F-16 and F-18 are considered superior to the F-15 in this aspect today.  However, the tabletop game of X-wing plays out differently than a simulator does, and it seems to me that the ships that perform best sticking it out at close range are the very ships that would do poorly at it in a simulator environment - B-wings especially, but Y-wings as well (though they lack the great arc-dodging performance).  So, knife-fighting in X-wing miniatures is, I think, a reversal of knife-fighting in real aerial combat, and in the X-wing games, favoring heavy-hitting ships with good shields and hull who can stick it out against enemies at close range.

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I don't claim lots of experience with "knife fighting" tactics (in any context), but it seems to me anything that can basically "fly sideways" by using short distance turns combined with barrel rolls and boosts -- all in one round's activation phase if they have the right upgrades -- and thus keep an enemy in arc for a Range 1 shot and/or stay out of arc of the same, is a knife fighter. Phantom, TIE Interceptor, B-Wing are the obvious ones.

 

Does a 3-Segnor's loop-capable ship "feel" like a knife fighter for doing the same kind of maneuvering across a longer distance? Maybe that's more of a "spear fighter". Heh.

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As applied to X-wing, knife fighters are ships that can deliver close range fire turn after turn, without needing to bug out and reset to come back for another joust.

B-wings are generally the kings of this since they have all 5 one speed maneuvers, as well as a 2k and barrel roll. As conventional jousters have to fly by, the B-wing can keep the pressure on.

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As applied to X-wing, knife fighters are ships that can deliver close range fire turn after turn, without needing to bug out and reset to come back for another joust.

B-wings are generally the kings of this since they have all 5 one speed maneuvers, as well as a 2k and barrel roll. As conventional jousters have to fly by, the B-wing can keep the pressure on.

 

Yeah, and I think this is hugely problematic.  B-wings shouldn't have a turn tighter than a red 2 turn, and most of their white should be 3 turns, considering their huge mass and poor maneuverability in all of the available information we have about them outside of this game.

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As applied to X-wing, knife fighters are ships that can deliver close range fire turn after turn, without needing to bug out and reset to come back for another joust.

B-wings are generally the kings of this since they have all 5 one speed maneuvers, as well as a 2k and barrel roll. As conventional jousters have to fly by, the B-wing can keep the pressure on.

 

Yeah, and I think this is hugely problematic.  B-wings shouldn't have a turn tighter than a red 2 turn, and most of their white should be 3 turns, considering their huge mass and poor maneuverability in all of the available information we have about them outside of this game.

That may be, but I'm glad it's not that way. In game B-wings have stood the test of time, unlike most other rebel fighters which are often lackluster compared to where imperial ships are at.

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As applied to X-wing, knife fighters are ships that can deliver close range fire turn after turn, without needing to bug out and reset to come back for another joust.

B-wings are generally the kings of this since they have all 5 one speed maneuvers, as well as a 2k and barrel roll. As conventional jousters have to fly by, the B-wing can keep the pressure on.

 

Yeah, and I think this is hugely problematic.  B-wings shouldn't have a turn tighter than a red 2 turn, and most of their white should be 3 turns, considering their huge mass and poor maneuverability in all of the available information we have about them outside of this game.

That may be, but I'm glad it's not that way. In game B-wings have stood the test of time, unlike most other rebel fighters which are often lackluster compared to where imperial ships are at.

 

 

Yeah, but I think if all ships were set up in a logical way regarding their dials, this issue might not be there either.  Also, it seems to me that in the tournament scene rebels have always dominated.  Maybe I'm wrong about that, but the results seem to tend towards rebel ships winning championships.

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I've been throwing this one around, and if it's fully caught on, I thought I'd go ahead and explain.

 

Pic and Gorc, as a descriptor for the Wave 5 Metagame.

 

In the videogame Dark Forces II (the first Star Wars game that let you use Lightsabers, and the second to star Kyle Katarn), there were a miniboss pair of Dark Jedi named Pic and Gorc.

 

The former was incredibly agile, very quick, hard as hell to actually hit, and dealt lots of damage.

The latter was a slow-moving tank, with an 8-foot long lightsaber that he swung in lazy circles.

 

So, in a metagame primarily consisting of:

Whisper + Decimator

Corran Horn + SuperDash

Corran Horn + Fat Han

 

I knew exactly the right descriptor.

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When I first started reading these forums, I came to this thread hoping to find an explanation of the term "meta". I have since come to understand it, and I realize it is short for metagame or metagaming. (Words which I had only heard in a negative context previously.) It might be worthwhile adding meta to the glossary as its usage in X-wing is confusing to those who do not come from a gaming background.

Edited by Nyarr

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As applied to X-wing, knife fighters are ships that can deliver close range fire turn after turn, without needing to bug out and reset to come back for another joust.

B-wings are generally the kings of this since they have all 5 one speed maneuvers, as well as a 2k and barrel roll. As conventional jousters have to fly by, the B-wing can keep the pressure on.

 

Yeah, and I think this is hugely problematic.  B-wings shouldn't have a turn tighter than a red 2 turn, and most of their white should be 3 turns, considering their huge mass and poor maneuverability in all of the available information we have about them outside of this game.

 

I know they have huge mass, but I always viewed the "poor maneuverability" as "slow", rather than "flying a brick".

They're more maneuverable than the Y-Wing, canonically. So I'm okay with it being able to steer like crazy in close quarters, but not cover much ground. 

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As applied to X-wing, knife fighters are ships that can deliver close range fire turn after turn, without needing to bug out and reset to come back for another joust.

B-wings are generally the kings of this since they have all 5 one speed maneuvers, as well as a 2k and barrel roll. As conventional jousters have to fly by, the B-wing can keep the pressure on.

 

Yeah, and I think this is hugely problematic.  B-wings shouldn't have a turn tighter than a red 2 turn, and most of their white should be 3 turns, considering their huge mass and poor maneuverability in all of the available information we have about them outside of this game.

 

I know they have huge mass, but I always viewed the "poor maneuverability" as "slow", rather than "flying a brick".

They're more maneuverable than the Y-Wing, canonically. So I'm okay with it being able to steer like crazy in close quarters, but not cover much ground. 

 

 

Right, but if we're separating turning from movement (which is acceptable in space) they all should be able to turn to face which ever direction they like, more or less instantaneously.  The issue for me is that, in the world of dogfighting, what makes it require any skill at all is the fact that you physically can't turn and bring your guns to bear without executing a turning circle, because you have to keep flying forward or you'll fall out of the sky.  None of that applies to space, but it does apply to the way combat is done in the Star Wars universe.  So, the B-wing is the only one in the game sort of disobeying the established rules of movement.

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When I first started reading these forums, I came to this thread hoping to find an explanation of the term "meta". I have since come to understand it, and I realize it is short for metagame or metagaming. (Words which I had only heard in a negative context previously.) It might be worthwhile adding meta to the glossary as its usage in X-wing is confusing to those who do not come from a gaming background.

And "proc".

For the life of me I can't think of what that's short for.

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When I first started reading these forums, I came to this thread hoping to find an explanation of the term "meta". I have since come to understand it, and I realize it is short for metagame or metagaming. (Words which I had only heard in a negative context previously.) It might be worthwhile adding meta to the glossary as its usage in X-wing is confusing to those who do not come from a gaming background.

And "proc".

For the life of me I can't think of what that's short for.

 

 

That's another good one that is worth putting in.

 

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Proc

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