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Flick Mccom

Do Rebels ever win?

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I think that many people forget about the incredible mobility that heroes are capable of. In our campaign, the Rebels would often try to outgun the Imperial forces set against them with predictable results. Remember that when you take a move action, you gain movement points to spend over the entirety of your activation. That makes it possible to hit and run.

At the end of our campaign my Rebel players were fearsomely equipped, but when they didn't move they died. The part that makes this tough is how some of the missions are so high stakes, like the Hero Upgrade ones, that learning curve can really take its toll.

 

Yes, but no matter how manoeuvrable there are if there's a squad of stormies between you and a door you need to open or an objective you need to interact with then you have to kill the stormies first.  If the Empire keeps putting baddies in your way you run out of activations.

By the time that the Imps can start cranking out low cost units due to the threat level, the Rebs should be geared / skilled up well enough to be able to handle that. There's no accounting for the dice, of course. And I can see how a cruel Imp player could hoard agenda cards and use them very effectively. But having played a few campaigns, the Rebels can absolutely win and they actually do win as wel.

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By the time that the Imps can start cranking out low cost units due to the threat level, the Rebs should be geared / skilled up well enough to be able to handle that. There's no accounting for the dice, of course. And I can see how a cruel Imp player could hoard agenda cards and use them very effectively. But having played a few campaigns, the Rebels can absolutely win and they actually do win as wel.

It's not just the ones the empire can bring on with threat, there are those triggered by events and the initial ones. Even if every shot they make kills its target they're still limited by number of activations. If the Empire forces them to kill everything then they're buggered, and in my experience it's easier for the Empire to do that than it is for the Rebels to avoid it. I wonder if perhaps you (or your imperial player if/when it's not you) are playing to win or playing to make it fun for the rebels? I certainly find myself doing the latter sometimes when I know I could win if I wanted to.

Would certainly be interesting to have some genuine stats rather than all our anecdotal evidence. One thing I want to know is are the people saying rebels sometimes win saying it after multiple campaigns, so the rebels have the advantage of remembering a little of the mission structure? How often are rebels winning first time out?

Edited by mazz0

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Maybe it's just PC selection, IDK....but I am losing interest in this game...(If i want to feel like I did nothing I can stay home and apply for jobs)

 

I sympathise with you, loki - no-one plays to get smashed every week. I'm running a campaign at the moment, and after dominating on the infamous "A New Threat" mission, I was conscious of cutting my players some slack.

 

Last night we played two missions, the first being "Loose Cannon". Things were looking terrible for the Rebels when my stormies and RG Champion wailed on one character, but then the Rebel-controlled AT-ST opened up and just about cleared the board. The shift in the mood of the Rebel players was palpable, and this boost in their morale was both welcome and, I think, necessary.

 

The second mission was "Fly Solo", and they came really close to pulling it off (Han was one square away from escape when he took the final hit). Conscious of maintaining the players' interest and giving them a fair shake, I took elite Hired Guns as a reinforcement option (not the strongest choice available, and it also seemed to fit the cantina/bounty hunter theme of the mission). I also declined from finishing off Han a round earlier using my "Subversive Tactics" cards (would have been anticlimactic, to say the least). Having gotten so close at mission's end, the players were able to objectively analyse their performance and feel that they had had a chance of winning (a feeling they did not have the previous week).

 

My take-away from last night was an appreciation for the role of the Imperial player as more akin to Dungeon Master than opponent - it's my responsibility to challenge the players, but above all make sure they have a good time. :)

Edited by doobleg

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My take-away from last night was an appreciation for the role of the Imperial player as more akin to Dungeon Master than opponent - it's my responsibility to challenge the players, but above all make sure they have a good time. :)

 

Yes, I think that's a nice way to play.  It does demonstrate that as a competitive game it's not quite balanced though.

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I am routinely getting my rebel butts kicked by my wife.  First campaign she played Fenn/Gaarkhan as legendary and won 50%.  I'm playing Diala/Jyn/Gideon/Mak as normal, and have lost every round.  Last one I lost was Loose Cannon, where she was able to bleed/stun the AT-ST on the first round, ended the mission on her second activation of Round 3.  The problem I see is that whoever I activate first, she is able to wound them that round before they are able to rest on the next round.  Dice rolling plays a part, but the heroes just don't seem to have enough actions to stay alive for me.  The choice between resting to regain some health and attacking to thin the field and avoid future damage never works out.

 

(for Loose Cannon, she had elite stormies that could attack twice per round and had inherent bleed thanks to subversive tactics)

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(for Loose Cannon, she had elite stormies that could attack twice per round and had inherent bleed thanks to subversive tactics)

 

What Subversive Tactics card lets units attack twice per activation? I don't remember that...

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(for Loose Cannon, she had elite stormies that could attack twice per round and had inherent bleed thanks to subversive tactics)

 

What Subversive Tactics card lets units attack twice per activation? I don't remember that...

 

Scrap that, it was an agenda card.  Single use, forget the name.  "When you deploy a group of stormtroopers play this card.  Then discard it."  Something to that effect.

 

Edit - ISB enforcers appears to be the card.  

Edited by tomkat364

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My take-away from last night was an appreciation for the role of the Imperial player as more akin to Dungeon Master than opponent - it's my responsibility to challenge the players, but above all make sure they have a good time. :)

 

Yes, I think that's a nice way to play.  It does demonstrate that as a competitive game it's not quite balanced though.

 

 

This is the Rebels' first time playing the game, now through about 5 missions. Were they more experienced, I expect they wouldn't need the kid gloves. :)

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My take-away from last night was an appreciation for the role of the Imperial player as more akin to Dungeon Master than opponent - it's my responsibility to challenge the players, but above all make sure they have a good time. :)

 

Yes, I think that's a nice way to play.  It does demonstrate that as a competitive game it's not quite balanced though.

 

This is the Rebels' first time playing the game, now through about 5 missions. Were they more experienced, I expect they wouldn't need the kid gloves. :)

Ah, it's not your first time then? Trouble is, it's either balanced assuming the rebels don't know what's coming or its balanced assuming they do, it can't be both.

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Ah, it's not your first time then? Trouble is, it's either balanced assuming the rebels don't know what's coming or its balanced assuming they do, it can't be both.

I think this is a lot of the problem, and I'm willing to bet the game is balanced assuming that they do know what's coming. Otherwise, replayability goes out the window.

My question against that premise though is, why hidden information?

Because I, too, believe that the first time a group plays through the campaign, the Rebels are getting demolished. Our group was like that. Through two different Imperial players.

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The group I play in has me as the imperial player with four friends as the heroes.  One is a real min/maxxer/Quarterback.  He organizes activation order, influences the actions of other players, and makes sure nobody misses a thing (and the other heroes don't mind his 'leadership' so I let it go).  He's exceptional at organizing all the information and how best to handle each round in a mission.  If the rebels are extremely efficient, they should win most of the missions save some atrocious dice rolling.

 

I play the Imperials viciously and don't miss much myself.  Most missions come down to a few critical dice rolls on the final round.  For the most part, the rebels have won the majority of missions in our single run through of the base campaign and they won all four missions in the Twin Shadows campaign.  Again, always very close but the rebels have the edge in our sessions.

 

Here's a couple of principals the heroes always abide by:

 

1. Use XPs on defensive abilities ASAP.  They understand they don't need to wipe out all the imperial figures, they just need to make themselves harder to kill.

2. If an attack roll won't kill an enemy, don't burn one of your surges for pierce 1, +1 damage, or even stun; use it to recover a strain.  The point of strain is always worth more than a mildly boosted attack (unless of course the surge is being burned to guarantee the kill).

 

On the question of balance:  this game is most certainly not balanced.  There are way too many moving parts, however, the balance is fickle.  Running a mission with different heroes, imperial class decks, and open groups can produce different degrees of balance swaying in either direction.  Furthermore, the rebels will have an increased advantage when replaying a mission.  Knowing what is going to happen on turn X or when the blast door is unlocked is huge for the heroes.  They can plan for the results and nullify the advantage of surprise.

 

With all the dice involved on a turn by turn basis coupled with all the other variables, I don't consider mission play to be competitive.  On the contrary, it's a narrative with a lot of laughs.  All the components make it a little more involved than a beer 'n' pretzels miniature game, however, just seeing how it all plays out should be enjoyable enough.  If a group isn't having fun because they're not winning enough, I'd recommend games without dice.

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2. If an attack roll won't kill an enemy, don't burn one of your surges for pierce 1, +1 damage, or even stun; use it to recover a strain. 

 

Wait, this is a thing???

Edited by doobleg

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Yes. Every hero can use one surge per attack to recover 1 strain. What I think we missed in the first campaign I played is that if you have full strain this means you heal one damage instead. I wonder if this would have made the difference...

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I'm playing a four-rebel campaign as one of the rebels, Biv. 

We lost the first 5 mission (but got partial win in the story missions) and then won the 6th mission solely thanks to Gideon getting Masterstroke, in Loose Cannon with the ATST, it was glorious bloodbath. 

 

I'm finding Biv somewhat lackluster, got Bayonet, Shake it Off, Into the Fray so far and only his starting weapon, we had some lousy item draws. 

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I'm playing a four-rebel campaign as one of the rebels, Biv. 

We lost the first 5 mission (but got partial win in the story missions) and then won the 6th mission solely thanks to Gideon getting Masterstroke, in Loose Cannon with the ATST, it was glorious bloodbath. 

 

I'm finding Biv somewhat lackluster, got Bayonet, Shake it Off, Into the Fray so far and only his starting weapon, we had some lousy item draws. 

 

someone used Biv in our Twin Shadows campaign and also found them underwhelming.  He added a defensive ability, the Bayonet and Armor; charge to be front and center.  he always got wounded first and tried to dish as much damage as possible.  He was essentially a meat shield.  He played Garkhaan in our first campaign and liked him a whole lot more.

 

Also, in our first campaign the player with Mak stayed by Gideon's side once he got masterstroke.  Mak also had the 'no escape' ability card.  Once this combo went into play, the rebels rolled the last seven missions.

 

Loose cannon is an excellent mission.

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I'm playing a four-rebel campaign as one of the rebels, Biv. 

We lost the first 5 mission (but got partial win in the story missions) and then won the 6th mission solely thanks to Gideon getting Masterstroke, in Loose Cannon with the ATST, it was glorious bloodbath. 

 

I'm finding Biv somewhat lackluster, got Bayonet, Shake it Off, Into the Fray so far and only his starting weapon, we had some lousy item draws. 

I had masterstroke in this mission as well but lost.  The only dodge rolled all game was by the Royal guard champion, negating an AT-ST shot, and the AT-ST got bleed/stun in the first round.  

 

How did you avoid the royal guards' stun?

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Most missions come down to a few critical dice rolls on the final round. 

 

Agreed, except for our one campaign where the Imp player used Subversive tactics and we were are still relatively new to the campaign. 

 

I’d definitely avoid this deck unless the group consists of experienced players (players who will purchase specific items/use certain heroes to counter). 

 

Straining up heroes to deny them of their special abilities is a miserable experience IMO. Where's the fun if you have to spend actions constantly resting? 

 

 

I'm finding Biv somewhat lackluster

 

Yea, most people will agree.

 

Crushing blow + bayonet makes for an excellent boss slayer combo but it takes way too long to obtain those two cards unless you’re playing the mini campaign.

 

Close and personal without surge abilities is so bleh.

 

I really wish he had a starting weapon that utilized three dice (I mean, look at it!) but I can see that being difficult to balance. 

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I'm playing a four-rebel campaign as one of the rebels, Biv. 

We lost the first 5 mission (but got partial win in the story missions) and then won the 6th mission solely thanks to Gideon getting Masterstroke, in Loose Cannon with the ATST, it was glorious bloodbath. 

 

I'm finding Biv somewhat lackluster, got Bayonet, Shake it Off, Into the Fray so far and only his starting weapon, we had some lousy item draws. 

I had masterstroke in this mission as well but lost.  The only dodge rolled all game was by the Royal guard champion, negating an AT-ST shot, and the AT-ST got bleed/stun in the first round.  

 

How did you avoid the royal guards' stun?

 

 

Man, I wish I get a situation where I could stun with my royal guards.  as an imperial player and putrid dice roller, I can't think of many situations where I had an opportunity to stun with my royal guards.  Roll a surge, they cancel a surge.  Roll multiple surges, they roll a dodge.  Most of the time, the heroes leave the royal guard alone and laugh at their red/yellow ineptitude.

 

With Gideon as a hero, the players will want to overload a hero with a great weapon, attachments, and offensive talents purchased with xp so they can deal a lot of damage per attack preferably at range (like Mak).  Then, park Gideon next to that hero and unload ridiculous amounts of damage per round.  This combo was clearing the map on a round by round basis late in our campaign.  I simply couldn't keep enough units on the board to make a dent.

Edited by HK 47

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I'm playing a four-rebel campaign as one of the rebels, Biv. 

We lost the first 5 mission (but got partial win in the story missions) and then won the 6th mission solely thanks to Gideon getting Masterstroke, in Loose Cannon with the ATST, it was glorious bloodbath. 

 

I'm finding Biv somewhat lackluster, got Bayonet, Shake it Off, Into the Fray so far and only his starting weapon, we had some lousy item draws. 

I had masterstroke in this mission as well but lost.  The only dodge rolled all game was by the Royal guard champion, negating an AT-ST shot, and the AT-ST got bleed/stun in the first round.  

 

How did you avoid the royal guards' stun?

 

 

Kill before you are killed.

 

I brought in two Elite Trandoshans last night, and they killed them before I had the chance to use them.  The entire mission was over after that.  Killing an Imperial unit before it can activate is HUGE.

Edited by Boba Rick

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if you have full strain this means you heal one damage instead

 

Are you sure about that?  I know it's true when resting, but I wasn't aware it was true when using a surge.

 

 

Yeah, the RRG states that if you recover more strain than you have suffered, you recover damage. This includes having no strain, where you'd recover damage instead.

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if you have full strain this means you heal one damage instead

 

Are you sure about that?  I know it's true when resting, but I wasn't aware it was true when using a surge.

 

 

Yeah, the RRG states that if you recover more strain than you have suffered, you recover damage. This includes having no strain, where you'd recover damage instead.

 

 

Handy!

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