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Flick Mccom

Do Rebels ever win?

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Ok I've not read the rules as my mate has bought it and currently reading them.

BUT

We played the first game (after the tutorial) last night, and is it designed for the Rebels to loose?

We then went on to play something Den (page 16 of the campaign book) as a side mission and again the Rebels sucked.

We are playing three hero's, so get the hero upgrade.

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Allow me to speak frankly: learning a game by watching a video tutorial probably is not the best way to have a complete understanding of the system. And playing two games only is not enough either to ask whether a game was designed broken.

 

Video tutorials are good to have an initial grasp of the system and help decoding the rules (when these are badly structured); as for game play, some more details on how the games developed and what happened could help in debating strategy and tactics and possibly help

Edited by Julia

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I ran three demos yesterday at my lgs using the first campaign (aftermath), and rebels won 2 of 3 times.  The key is to remember they don't have to kill every figure, just the terminals.  And, also remember it's ok to be wouded, as long as everone isn't wonded it's not a problem (only rest in a real emergency).  You have to play at a fast pace if you are rebels, time is not on your side.

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We played first game Aftermath this afternoon. Rebels won, however we lost Mak. They were able to take out the last 2 terminals on round 6. Very bloody game. Strategy = the rebels went in guns blazing and never stopped moving. Rebel Dice rolls were heavily in their favor. Imperial reinforcements took Mak out on round 3.

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The rebels have a more difficult learning curve with this game.

I think most rebel players will probably lose their first campaign.

The first couple of scenarios, where the threat level is 2, are weighted in the rebels favour.

The next few missions are balanced and the last ones (4+ threat) favour the empire.

The rebel team needs to learn to work together to get crates and complete objectives, they also need to spend xp and money wisely as well as recruit and use allies well. They need to do all this to counter the increase in difficulty or else they will lose hard.

It'll take a campaign to learn this and find out which of your heroes abilities suit your play style, they'll also learn which side missions are best to avoid and some of the nasty surprises the missions hold.

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My impression - after the first handful of games is that the design is very balanced and most missions were ever only won with the smallest possible margin by one side or the other. Also, while the Imperial player needs to understand the rules well, as he has more things to keep track of to keep the game running, it is just as important to have strong Rebels players and to give them a thorough intro to how the game works. It's crucial that the Rebel players work well together and act strategically, getting the most out of their different strengths and weaknesses.

I think that the keen balance in the design is a good thing, because it allows for the Imperial player to put full pressure on the Rebel Heroes rather than holding back as an Overlord/GM-like role in other dungeon crawlers or roleplaying games, where you role is rather to facilitate an experience for the heroes than to compete with them.

 

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This afternoon I played with 2 of my padawans (8 and 10 yrs), and I proxied another hero for my older padawan (11yrs), because he was busy at the time but he definitely wants in on the campaign.  We played the tutorial and the Aftermath mission.  My padawans won both missions handily.  And it's not like I was taking it easy on them, either!  They're just good.  The force is strong with these ones.  I've trained them well.  

 

It helps that they've played a lot of Descent 2.0 and so they know how to work together as a team and how to push toward objectives.  We had Diala, Gideon, and Fenn.  Diala was Wounded in Aftermath, and Fenn was about 2 dmg away from being Wounded.  Fenn's Havoc Shot ability is amazingly helpful vs Stormtroopers (double attack on his turn and then a free shot from Gideon is just perfect).  My E-Web unloaded with POWER on Diala and she would've died, except she rolled an "X-Men symbol" (that's what we call it) to survive; before that moment my 10 yr old padawan was complaining about how "the white dice sucks"...I didn't hear so much complaining about the white dice afterward.

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Played the tutorial then aftermath. I have a feeling the guy playing imperials is playing wrong tbh. We as rebels have read the rules (as pointed out his game he's reading first) so I may look at the video guide which I haven't watched yet.

Again stupid question but would like answering,

The imperials do they get two activations eg move then shoot, if so what is the point in stun?

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Also, taking out an entire Stormtrooper squad in one round is very doable and, if you do, the Empire player can't reinforce it. You can only reinforce a group as long as it has at least one unit on the board.

The empire can still deploy the entire group though, right?

Sure, its 6 threat needed but its not like they cant get more troops on the board.

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Played the tutorial then aftermath. I have a feeling the guy playing imperials is playing wrong tbh. We as rebels have read the rules (as pointed out his game he's reading first) so I may look at the video guide which I haven't watched yet.

Again stupid question but would like answering,

The imperials do they get two activations eg move then shoot, if so what is the point in stun?

 

They do get two actions per figure yes, they cant do two attacks though.

Stun takes away one of their actions and in the case of ranged attackers that might not affect things very much

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We played Aftermath yesterday and the rebels were crushed! I was playing Empire. What's not clear to me is whether you're supposed to tell the Rebels that they have only six turns to get the job done. It seems to suggest you're not, but without knowing that then playing slowly and cautiously (kill everything, move on) would naturally appear to be a valid Rebel tactic, especially when they find that they can kill more points per turn than is made up for in both reinforcements and the damage they take themselves.

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It seems to suggest you're not

Where?

Several of the missions are on a timer and state so clearly in the information that the Imperial player is to read up at the start of the mission. These mission are already hard for the Rebel players to manage if they know they are on a clock and withholding that crucial information would make it impossible for the Rebels and boringly easy for the Imperial.

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It seems to suggest you're not

Where?

Several of the missions are on a timer and state so clearly in the information that the Imperial player is to read up at the start of the mission. These mission are already hard for the Rebel players to manage if they know they are on a clock and withholding that crucial information would make it impossible for the Rebels and boringly easy for the Imperial.

Page 1 of the campaign guide, about Hidden Information. The End of Mission event within the campaign rules itself is written just like any other event, you wouldn't tell the players in advance about the Lockdown or Fortifies events. To my reading, all you're supposed to tell the players is what's in the first section of the Mission Briefing. I agree it makes it very hard, that just seems to be how it's written, unless I'm missing something.

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Yup, at the start of the mission, it's Mission Briefing only. The Rebels have to figure everything else out as they go along. The imperial player only reads each section as the rebel players progress to them during the mission.

Even things like, "If the terminal was destroyed before round 5, the rebels players get X rewards. Otherwise, the imperial player gets Y rewards" is kept secret, unless it's specifically listed in the mission briefing or a progress step.

Edited by chiller087

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Page 2 of the Campaign Guide, under Mission Events: "When an event is triggered, all of the text and rule information within that section is read aloud and resolved, in order."

 

So, as an example (spoilers about the first mission, Aftermath), everything under Mission Briefing is read out - terminals being the target, the need to destroy them all, and the mission auto-ending at Round 6 or when all heroes are wounded. Fortified event, which triggers when the first door opens, isn't read in advance, but as soon as it actually triggers, you read out the narrative text and the rules regarding the new figures being put into play. And then when the Lockdown mission triggers after the end of the round of the first door opening, then everything is read there; the health increase to all terminals, the door closing, and how to open the door again.

 

And this goes on for most everything else in this mission and all other missions. The only exceptions are events where the Imperial player has to choose one of 2 or more options. In this instance, the Imperial player only reads out what specific choice they've chosen, keeping all other options secret (unless the Imperial player gets to pick another option from the same list later on).

 

The whole keep everything secret from Rebel players is to ensure that players don't spot any event triggers or plan ahead for things they shouldn't know, so for Aftermath (spoilers again), this would give players an advantage by letting the players try to destroy the first terminal and then line up and prepare push all the players through the door before the round ends when the door opens and the door locks.

Edited by Lathrop

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It seems to suggest you're not

Where?

Several of the missions are on a timer and state so clearly in the information that the Imperial player is to read up at the start of the mission. These mission are already hard for the Rebel players to manage if they know they are on a clock and withholding that crucial information would make it impossible for the Rebels and boringly easy for the Imperial.

Page 1 of the campaign guide, about Hidden Information. The End of Mission event within the campaign rules itself is written just like any other event, you wouldn't tell the players in advance about the Lockdown or Fortifies events. To my reading, all you're supposed to tell the players is what's in the first section of the Mission Briefing. I agree it makes it very hard, that just seems to be how it's written, unless I'm missing something.

 

I am not suggesting that you should reveal the hidden information to the players, but all the timed missions explicitly state in the initial Mission Briefing when the mission will end, making it clear to the Rebel players that they are on a timer. If that information is not communicated clearly enough by the Imperial Player, then the Rebels will have a very hard time.

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I'm not sure what you are missing in this regard. The mission timer is clearly listed in the section including the rules for how to complete the scenario.

If you think you shouldn't be reading how many rounds the players get then you should also be skipping what the terminals do or how to complete the mission.

Edited by ScottieATF

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It seems to suggest you're not

Where?

Several of the missions are on a timer and state so clearly in the information that the Imperial player is to read up at the start of the mission. These mission are already hard for the Rebel players to manage if they know they are on a clock and withholding that crucial information would make it impossible for the Rebels and boringly easy for the Imperial.

Page 1 of the campaign guide, about Hidden Information. The End of Mission event within the campaign rules itself is written just like any other event, you wouldn't tell the players in advance about the Lockdown or Fortifies events. To my reading, all you're supposed to tell the players is what's in the first section of the Mission Briefing. I agree it makes it very hard, that just seems to be how it's written, unless I'm missing something.

As mentioned number of turns is in the briefing...

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I'll Add another thought as to why Imperials are difficult to beat. In my case, we played a missuon per night for 4 nights. At the end of the night, we knew which mission we were going to so I had the whole next day to think about which open groups I woukd bring to the mission and what my overall strategy would be. The Rebels, however, just showe up and had to wing it after the briefing. Case in point: for the mission Vader's Obsession, I realized that with a threat level of three, I could get elite Royal Guards at the end of round 1. This gave me access to a great defensive combo where my elite Stormtroopers equipped with Cloaking Device were able to redirect attacks that were targeting Vader to themselves. They blocked with 1 white and 1 black die plus got +1 block from the guards, making them very hard to put down. I could only muster this kind of force because I knew how the mission worked ahead of time.

On the other hand, that mission was close. Vader ended up completing it with only 2 health left. It could have gone either way, really. I think these missions are pretty balanced. Even though I'm 3-1, 3 out of 4 missions were desparately close. There was only one mission where my players gave up and made a deal that I win the mission if they get all the supply crates.

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So far, it's pretty balanced for us. 3 Rebel players vs 1 Imperial player....we're 5 missions and it's 4-1 for the Rebels. All games are pretty tight and never sure who is gonna win. Sure is challenging at times and despite the Rebels having wins on their belt, it's been very close so thats fun even for me, the Imperial player

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