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Oldster

Advanced rip off

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as a new player to the game, i am happy that FFG is even willing to go back and add something to make a previoulsy unplayable ship payable again and breath new life into the selection.

 

In terms of cost, i dont think 100.00 or round abouts (a quick search on amazon for 59.99 for the tantine IV) is too much to ask.  This game requires relatively few models, and really, in terms of miniature games, costs very little to play, and thats even competitively. (i have 6 ties, a slave 1, 3 interceptors :the imperial aces and a tie inteceptor for soontir fel, a phantom, a defender, a bomber, lambda, and vt-49 for around 200.00 between my local game shop, ebay and amazon)

 

i only say this because i am a competitive warmachine player, and my circle orboros army playing Morvahna 2 with reeves, war wolves, skin walkers, ravagers with a chieftan and shaman, stalker and gorax and shifting stones cost me well into the 500.00 range, and that is for one list.

 

i think the pricing is fine. its not perfect, but i dont think they ask too much for the game, and i think the release schedule is lax enough that it keeps people from having to pay all the time, and allows people to save their change (something i do) to buy new stuff.

 

im not made of money. im a college student, my wife is an accountant. i drive an 08 gas guzzling dodge ram 4 door, we just paid off her 2009 pointiac g6, i have a 3 bedroom home in a suburb, and that aint cheap, so beleive me, it isnt that money grows on trees, and i understand that, but i also think that it isnt too outrageous that people cant put together the 100.00 to buy it IF THEY CHOOSE TOO between now and the end of febuary/march, and there is always birthdays, valentines, anniversaries, ect ect...

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When FFG announced the long-awaited Imperial Epic ship, I was excited. And when I read that they, along with Lucasfilm Ltd., introduced a new ship to the canon of Star Wars specifically for this game, I thought that was a really clever solution to the problem of most iconic Imperial ships being too big for X-Wing play. However, my only let-down is that the solution to make the TIE Advanced competitive is also included in this expensive package.

 

There are many who say "We've had to buy the Corvette or the Transport to get really good upgrades. It's the Empire's turn to pay up too." While acquiring cards like C-3P0 is an expensive venture, please understand that those are cards to make good ships even better. What many of us in the Empire hoped was for a whole ship to be revitalized. Yes, we got our wish. And I'm thankful that FFG has done it in a way that doesn't ignore the TIE Advanced's that we already own (having more than one TIE/x1 Title Card). But the reality is, to make this ship work in competitive play, the price is $99.

 

I don't believe it's a rip-off. It's actually a really smart way to sell your higher-end products. And yes, you don't pay $99 just for a couple of upgrade cards. The new Imperial ship looks beast and for someone who previously didn't have an interest in Epic Play, the Raider is making me reconsider this notion, sending me into delusions of grandeur and conquest (though my wallet is most likely going to bring me to the ground again haha). And there are other Imperial lists out there that are very successful in tournament play. However, I really like the Advanced and wanted it to field it as part of my tournament squadron. It would have been nice to have them do to it what they did with Rebel Aces, have a $30 box with 2 ships and cards to make the A-Wing more appealing for competitive games. Yes, we could look online for the cards to get them at a lower price, but it would have been nice to acquire them directly from FFG without paying so much.

 

Of course, the new ship is cool. The way FFG handled the problem of Imperial ships being too big is great. If I ever have the budget for it, I'll probably get a Raider (and not just for the TIE Advanced upgrade cards). Still, looks like I'm going to have to wait a little more for the Advanced to be in my main tournament squad.

Thank you for that and for the way you said it. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that what they do is not 100% right. Sure I can buy separate cards on E-bay or use proxies, but I want to buy it directly from FFG. Why? Let me give you an example:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=854

And that's pretty much why. FFG showed they can listen and care for their customers. Wow, I wish I could say something like that about EA for example. And now they put cards like C3PO or TIE/x1 to 99$ boxes. Why? Because many players have waited for it so much that they will buy it anyway. 7falcon7wings7 is right "It's actually a really smart way to sell your higher-end products." but I think it is not ok.

Edited by Oldster

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Since the transport was released, there has been exactly 2 games of epic played at my LGS and only 2 players bought the ships. Aside from the Tie Advanced ship and cards, this set would be a complete waste of money for me. The raider would sit in my closet next to my 3rd edition Eldar army collecting dust.

 

I wish there were an alternate way to get cards that can be used outside of epic that are exclusive to epic ships. You know like a $5 pack of cards.

 

eBay. The Raider comes with an excess of TIE advanced cards.

 

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Thank you for that and for the way you said it. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that what they do is not 100% right. Sure I can buy separate cards on E-bay or use proxies, but I want to buy it directly from FFG. Why? Let me give you an example:

http://www.fantasyfl...ws.asp?eidn=854

And that's pretty much why. FFG showed they can listen and care for their customers. Wow, I wish I could say something like that about EA for example. And now they put cards like C3PO or TIE/x1 to 99$ boxes. Why? Because many players have waited for it so much that they will buy it anyway. 7falcon7wings7 is right "It's actually a really smart way to sell your higher-end products." but I think it is not ok.

You feel it's a "smart" (insert massive negative connatation here) move but you want to buy the fix from FFG rather than eBay to support FFG?

If you don't support it being packaged with the Raider, why do you feel the need to support it being packaged with the raider again?

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We have been playing the campaign in the Tantive iv box and its really fun. It forces you to build and play different list rather than the usual 100pt tournament games. I had wes with 1 hull at range 1 of a tie bomber who had a torp, focus and target lock on the corvette i removed the tl knowing full well wes would get blasted. His sacrifice bought more time so the hyperdive could be fixed. Whats not to love about the cinematic play?

In fact i would like to see a tournament with missions. I play alot of mini games and the missions/objectives make the game fun. Forget the mission and you can loose the game. When you ****** victory from defeat with a scout car who has dodged all the Tigers its a great feeling.

Anyway for your $99 you get an advannced plus a free plastic christmas tree :-)

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You feel it's a "smart" (insert massive negative connatation here) move but you want to buy the fix from FFG rather than eBay to support FFG?

If you don't support it being packaged with the Raider, why do you feel the need to support it being packaged with the raider again?

 

 

I want to buy things from FFG to support them because they do a great job. I use many of their games in my work and everybody knows that their games are always top-notch products.The cancellation of Arkham Horror Investigator Miniatures showed that they will listen to the customers if they think something is not right. And I think that giving cards for 15$ ship in a box worth almost 100$ is not right. But I can see that here majority of players feel that everything is perfectly ok. If you really like it that's fine, let's leave it that way. I just think it would be much better if we could buy new Advance separately.

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Just posted this in a different thread, before I found this one, maybe here is more appropiate:

 

I would really like to see FFG put the X-Wing and cards from the transport pack and the Advanced and cards from the Raider pack together in a Battle of Yavin pack.

 

I am not that much into Epic. I have some fighters for a casual game with visitors, but rarely play and Epic game. (So far: 1)

So I won't pay 80 or 90 euro's for an improved Advanced. That's how I have to see it as the Raider shall be rarely used.

I would however pay 35 or 40 for them together in a nice box :)

 

If not, well, I still like them anyway! And will field the 'Old School' X-Wing and Advanced! :D

 

To add to it:

I do respect it from a marketing point of view. To sell the higher and products, link it to something your customers really want. And from the amounts of 'Save the Advanced!' threads this was probably a no-brainer :P

 

I do prefer to play with original cards. Even after a recent discussion with friends, but eventually we agreed people could use proxies. I am slowly leaning towards that now as well...

Edited by Cununculus

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I have 5 advanced fighters, with this pack it will be 6, only 4 cards is disappointing. they should have known how many ships I own and accounted for the additional one in this pack to take me to 6 and had 6 refit cards in the box for ME.

 

for those who are unclear, yes this is sarcasm.

 

:P

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I have 5 advanced fighters, with this pack it will be 6, only 4 cards is disappointing. they should have known how many ships I own and accounted for the additional one in this pack to take me to 6 and had 6 refit cards in the box for ME.

 

for those who are unclear, yes this is sarcasm.

 

:P

I actually have 6 got them for a steal awhile ago... 

Edited by Swedge

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Maybe having a viable epic option for Imperials other than fielding every TIE you own will get more people playing epic. I know a few people who shied away because they didn't relish the idea of having to move a few dozen ships every turn.

Not only that, but apart from the true-hearted fanatic fans, there is also a large portion of casual players.

Explaining X-Wing to a newby who will maybe only play it once or twice a year is easy with a few miniatures.

Introduce Epic and they run. If the Advanced fix would be separate I could field 2-4 ships on each side and still let them have a different feel, a different style, but without the dealing (or 'stress' for some) with 7 ships that might scare some away from the game.

I can find people for a short 60-point or 100-point game. But Epic is different, it is a lot more time consuming, you need a load of mini's, and people definately do need to have a basic (if not slightly advanced) grip of the rules.

 

I am reallist enough to know that is not the customers FFG is aiming for (with all due respect by the way)

And yes, the Raider looks really nice. Friends will buy it.

Hopefully I can get a Advanced X1 and a Advanced Targetings Sensors out of their hands :unsure:

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But why do we have to pay 99$ for it?

 

1. You don't have to.

2. It costs $99 or regional equivalent because it contains a CR-90 equivalent and a normal miniature.

3. It contains four copies of each card. Four. FFG knows it's an expensive pack and has scaled the number of titles they give you appropriately. They did the same with Chaardan Refit in giving you three. They're specifically setting it up so you don't have to buy multiples to get one particular card.

4. How many people have three TIE advanceds already and will have four come Raider? There'll be surplus titles on eBay if this turns out to be something tournament-worthy. Hell, if you know someone who's getting the Raider and doesn't have four x1s they'd probably give you their spares.

5. If you're not talking tournament, you don't actually need the cards any more than you need the actual A-wing Test Pilot and Chaardan Refit cards to reduce cost by 2 and give a second EPT slot. The focal point of the expansion is the Raider itself, the Advanced fix is already being applied to Casual games. We already have battle reports of it.

I agree with everything except #5.  But that's just my personal preference.  I'll almost never play with something that I don't own.  On rare occasions I'll allow someone to playtest something that isn't out yet just to get a feel for it, but I really have this issue where I need to own it in order to use it.   Otherwise there is virtually no point in buying stuff.  I mean, I'd just use paper counters, and a breeze comes by and blows my fleet away

I have been play testing more often lately, which requires proxy. I feel doing so builds expansion awareness and excitement. However, when I'm not intentionally play testing next wave content, I play what I own.

Finally an epic ship worthy of the Empire.

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Oh good! Another entitled player complaining about stuff he doesn't have to buy! It's like there isn't a competitive list he could field without this option!

Seriously, this this thread is pointleas as it gets around here. I'm very tired of seeing flame threads. We just got a preview of something really awesome and that people have wanted for some time and people still find something to ***** about. I love this forum, but I can't believe the nerve of some people here.

Oh dear! Salty much?

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I think the epic ships are big divide. I for one am a strictly Empire player, so I did not purchase the rebel epics. I plan on changing factions to Scum when that comes out. I do buy rebel ships that I want the cards from, but I only buy them when I am happy with my empire from a particular expansion. I think people shouldn't be getting all bent out of shape over a 100 dollar set. If you play a faction more than another the choice is easy.

Personally I won't be getting this one, but will get an epic scum. If I was sticking with empire I would get this in a heartbeat. But I don't have to own the whole world to enjoy the game.

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May I present to you

C-3po.png

So another example of taking your customers for granted proves...what?
How are they taking their customers for granted? Because they put down a price tag that YOU don't want to pay? The have packages enough copies in this set where you will see them show up in the secondary market...hiding behind "well I want do support ffg directly" is disingenuious (not sure if you said that...but pointing it out for others). If you want to support them you pay what they ask. I am sorry you aren't interested in epic...but that is your problem. I am very interested and am stoked I finally have a proper imperial ship to use finally. This adv fix a nice as well...but if you don't want to pay the price there are many other ships to play and ways to get this upgrade...

Putting this fix in with the epic ship we all wanted was a very smart move...they will sell more of this ship and hopefully get more people into epic now that there are two proper sides. This is in no way taking us for granted...most of.us agree getting two things we have wanted in one box...that you only want one and not the others your problem.

I swear...so many whiny people on this site some times...

Edit to add: for those of you saying this is somehow wrong. Take a basic econ class and learn the fundamentals of market economics. This is how the system works...there is nothing immoral about this move. Just because you don't want to pay doesn't make it wrong.

Edited by ShakeZoola72

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Plus it only matters to the tourney players or groups that dont allow proxy in casual play.

But people dont want to proxy; they want the option to support the company and their shops.

 

And they have it...that they are unable or unwilling to take advantage of it is neither the company's nor this community's problem...

 

EDIT to add:  If this proves to be bad move on FFGs part the market will bear it out and people will not run the new adv...I dont see this happening though.

Edited by ShakeZoola72

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