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CommissarWilliams

Will Only war Ever be "Finished?"

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I know This will be a touchy subject, but let's take that pill and see how deep the Rabbit hole goes now shall we ?

 

I think we have all been expecting anther only war book, something for the other classes. But We have not really heard anything since shield. Now While I am fully aware Onlywar is not as popular as Dark heresy or rogue trader, maybe because people find it hard playing soldier in other games let alone the grim dark. It just Does not feel finished, and with Dark heresy two ? and the possible second edition of other games like rogue trader, and more dark heresy books, has only war taken a back burner ?  I'm not sure if FF monitors these forums as much but oh well.

 

I know as a Community we could come up with some new stuff, and our imagination is always going to be there, but does any one else get the feeling that Only war Is one book away from being Complete ? and the feeling that we might just not get that last book? 

 

Just wondering.

 

 

Commissar.

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I can relate to that sense, yeah. IMO, Dark Heresy's biggest draw for me was it was the first fully done 40k RPG that I had seen. You got to be in the Imperium, and even to serve the big =][=; if you were exceedingly lucky, or if they realized that DH characters could actually be pretty weak, you might even get to BE an Inquisitor, or one of his/her "equal footing" attaches. Then Rogue Trader came along, and upped the factor by making you a pirate prince with limitless possibilities. Even an Inquisitor is seemingly limited in the scope of their power, but your Rogue Trader can own a ship, a world, a hole little empire, if they want, and Exterminatus a whole planet, if the slow way, answering to no one; who cares what you do, legally, beyond the edge of the Imperium? But you know, that still wasn't enough. The poster baby for 40k has always been the Space Marines, and so the power ramped up, again, giving us Deathwatch; now, not only can you be an Angel of Death, survive a melta to the face, and live for 500 years telling neophytes about it, but you get free access to the Inquisition's best stuff, and depending on what you read, they aren't allowed to do anything but let you, and maybe polish it for you, first. Think that's it? Nope. All of these assumed you were marginally the good guys. Now we give you a touch of Chaos, and Black Crusade. Now you can be a heretic worshiper of Chaos, a tainted CSM, or what have you, and we even made the system probably better. You always have thayt one player who says "why can't we be bad? Just shoot the guy who doesn't listen, and take all his stuff?" Now they have their system.

 

Patching Only War onto the end of this seemed good from a mechanics point, because they got all the play-testing-prior play-testing, and such already in, so the system should've known what worked, what didn't, and what fans liked, plus a more mortal feel, somewhat, bringing you back down to more an oppressive feel the dystopian 40k-verse is supposed to have, but from a playing perspective, you are a disposable resource, barely more a name than your three-piece Comrade, limited in the cool things they'll ever get or do, and on, sort of like a story of rising to godhood, just to realize you are bored, and giving it up. Doctor Doom should do this; you maybe should not.

 

Now, please note I overgeneralized, and some of this isn't even totally my opinion, but rising through the ranks from mortal servant, to master of his destiny, to Demigod with best toys, to full God who answers to no one, just to fall back to Earth as a mortal again can sort of sap the excitement out of it. You won't have a character do this all in one go, most likely, but one of the big possible pitfalls some see in Only War is that you are ONLY Human, and even there, you are severely limited in the "cool ups" you will ever get. The RT might someday get a suit of power armor, an inferno pistol, and a power sword, but no Guardsman ever will, even if they rise to the heights of the Guard, and certainly not in a system that focuses on front line awesomeness and team play, which severely curtails the rank in which you can achieve, again, IMO. It can be hard to argue for a game where you WILL die, and no one will care, carrying only a flashlight, a cardboard box, and balls of adamantium, when your friends also know that there is a game where you can fly in space, ruling an empire, or be a peerless warrior god, able to crush any opposition.

 

Personally, I rather like OW, even if I wish it had a few more bells and whistles to make me feel important (that's a personal failing of me, not the system), and I really want them to make the other book, as I am a Psyker fan, but it does seem to be pittering off. I am not so much a fan of Scooby Dooing it through the galaxy, so DH2 really doesn't have appeal to me, though RT2 would make me very happy. Okay, I'm done airing out my opinion. ;)

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I can relate to that sense, yeah. IMO, Dark Heresy's biggest draw for me was it was the first fully done 40k RPG that I had seen. You got to be in the Imperium, and even to serve the big =][=; if you were exceedingly lucky, or if they realized that DH characters could actually be pretty weak, you might even get to BE an Inquisitor, or one of his/her "equal footing" attaches. Then Rogue Trader came along, and upped the factor by making you a pirate prince with limitless possibilities. Even an Inquisitor is seemingly limited in the scope of their power, but your Rogue Trader can own a ship, a world, a hole little empire, if they want, and Exterminatus a whole planet, if the slow way, answering to no one; who cares what you do, legally, beyond the edge of the Imperium? But you know, that still wasn't enough. The poster baby for 40k has always been the Space Marines, and so the power ramped up, again, giving us Deathwatch; now, not only can you be an Angel of Death, survive a melta to the face, and live for 500 years telling neophytes about it, but you get free access to the Inquisition's best stuff, and depending on what you read, they aren't allowed to do anything but let you, and maybe polish it for you, first. Think that's it? Nope. All of these assumed you were marginally the good guys. Now we give you a touch of Chaos, and Black Crusade. Now you can be a heretic worshiper of Chaos, a tainted CSM, or what have you, and we even made the system probably better. You always have thayt one player who says "why can't we be bad? Just shoot the guy who doesn't listen, and take all his stuff?" Now they have their system.

 

Patching Only War onto the end of this seemed good from a mechanics point, because they got all the play-testing-prior play-testing, and such already in, so the system should've known what worked, what didn't, and what fans liked, plus a more mortal feel, somewhat, bringing you back down to more an oppressive feel the dystopian 40k-verse is supposed to have, but from a playing perspective, you are a disposable resource, barely more a name than your three-piece Comrade, limited in the cool things they'll ever get or do, and on, sort of like a story of rising to godhood, just to realize you are bored, and giving it up. Doctor Doom should do this; you maybe should not.

 

Now, please note I overgeneralized, and some of this isn't even totally my opinion, but rising through the ranks from mortal servant, to master of his destiny, to Demigod with best toys, to full God who answers to no one, just to fall back to Earth as a mortal again can sort of sap the excitement out of it. You won't have a character do this all in one go, most likely, but one of the big possible pitfalls some see in Only War is that you are ONLY Human, and even there, you are severely limited in the "cool ups" you will ever get. The RT might someday get a suit of power armor, an inferno pistol, and a power sword, but no Guardsman ever will, even if they rise to the heights of the Guard, and certainly not in a system that focuses on front line awesomeness and team play, which severely curtails the rank in which you can achieve, again, IMO. It can be hard to argue for a game where you WILL die, and no one will care, carrying only a flashlight, a cardboard box, and balls of adamantium, when your friends also know that there is a game where you can fly in space, ruling an empire, or be a peerless warrior god, able to crush any opposition.

 

Personally, I rather like OW, even if I wish it had a few more bells and whistles to make me feel important (that's a personal failing of me, not the system), and I really want them to make the other book, as I am a Psyker fan, but it does seem to be pittering off. I am not so much a fan of Scooby Dooing it through the galaxy, so DH2 really doesn't have appeal to me, though RT2 would make me very happy. Okay, I'm done airing out my opinion. ;)

 

I'm More then happy to be a simple Human and that know's his place, I think Only war Is a great game to have epic moments where no one expects you to survive and you do. DH even if you are a low ranking acolyte, in some respects your death will be missed.

 

I think the main thing that gets alot of players that if they do not have a military back ground and Gms that it can be hard to get into only war. But I think you can easily get two more books out that should sell really well, anther campaign , and a new book for the last three classes . 

 

I know black crusade is not as popular ever, it only has six books i think, but they seem to cover everything, from looking over them they seem to have covered most of what you need to know, or would want to know. It's a shame with only war, you just have this cliff hanger. 

 

I hope Only war does not turn into the half life three of Fantasy flights Warhammer 40k rpgs . It will be anther three of four years i bet before we see Only war 2.0.

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I took 13 months for the Tome of Decay to be announced, most of us already gave up hope. I guess they'll hopefully announce something next month for Only War, making it equal in time as Tome of Decay.

Edited by Gridash

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I also hope for some more stuff. I don't know if I need a whole additional book of vehicles, like some people have asked, but I could certainly live with it, and I certainly want the Psyker/Commissar/Storm Trooper book, even if I'm not actually sure what will be in it (you can only make psykers so much more powerful, and there are already people who hate them in games, and think that they are too cheesy). I also wouldn't mind a book that, and yes I should be able to do this without one, covers how a full-on world-campaign might be conducted, sort of like 40k: Dark Crusade, starting with a planetfall, and setting up a base, then maintaining your space support, while spreading out, taking areas, strengthening them, and such. Otherwise, my brain has difficulty imagining how Kulth might end, or Avitohol. Duke Severus has a planetary bastion of a base, with numerous heavy void shields and STO weapon emplacements, along with numerous infantry regiments and tank companies worth of ground forces, all sitting between you and "winning the crusade". Minus a Callidus Assassin "slaying the warlord", we must find a way to get through all that, and it will fall to the players, as the movers and shakers of a campaign. While I certainly don't expect them to write a book that ends their story line, even if they do know they aren't making much more, something on a similar scale, that could be extrapolated to such a thing might be nice. It could be fun, even awesome, to conduct a campaign that wins that crusade, minus maybe the Orks, and then gets to move to the Reach, finally removing the Imperium's resource-bottleneck that is the Only War setting's locale.

 

I also don't mind the wait, nearly as much as I mind the silence. If you are a company that wants to keep my attention, keep slipping me ideas of what you are doing. If I have to wonder if you are doing something, I might go someplace else to find someone who is.

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Well, there's the need for the Psyker/Commissar/Storm Trooper book, then there's a need for a book supporting Armored regiments, because there's basically jack for them, and there's a need for a book covering fliers - valkyries/variants, various drop shuttles, and the other Navy detachments deployed in support of Guard operations. I mean, really, no valkyries in Only War? The only stats for a Valkyrie/variant are for the Skytalon and from a Rogue Trader adventure book.

 

That said .. I can't really say I actually expect FFG to do anything on the subjects that they've neglected to date.

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Well. I've already written advanced specialties for Commissars/Psykers/Stormtroopers so if we get our **** together and make a community expansion pack that's one of the major problem areas covered.

 

I'm actually unemployed as of today so if you want, pitch me what you guys want to see and I shall damned well write material for it.

Edited by SgtLazarus

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Nobody knows for sure why Only War was so suddenly abandoned... I read once that there was a 30K RPG in a proto-developmente stage, but there are no true evidences.

 

Anyway, the lack of updates is felt from everybody. I like the idea of a community-made expansion pack (and that's why I'm using my spare time to put down concepts for Steel Tracks) and for this reason I want to help/support anyone brave enough who want to accomplish this feature.

I ask the senior members: what's the best route to follow?

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If we're going to make a community expansion pack we need the ability to debate ideas in real-time, and we need to have an understanding of all of the problems facing this game, and potential gaps that need filled. Content that people want to see, etc.

I would honestly, based on how I've been handling my own projects, recommend a live instant-messaging based Skype group, where project members can brainstorm ideas, shape them and get feedback on the fly to help keep the creative process moving.

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I would honestly, based on how I've been handling my own projects, recommend a live instant-messaging based Skype group, where project members can brainstorm ideas, shape them and get feedback on the fly to help keep the creative process moving.

 

Ah, Omnissiah bless Skype! I like the idea, when shall we start?  :D

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No products announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

New product announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

I've seen both things said on multiple times here. People assume that no news means no new products and that every new book is the "last" book they'll get.

BYE

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Partly because an interest in a product should elicit a perceived interest by the producer, and partly because they never announce the end of the product. Anyone here ever play the Naruto CCG? Whether you liked it, hated it, or have never even played it, when they pumped out the final set of cards, there was no indication that it was that. A game had just come out, which it covered, and the manga was getting into some of the best, most power stuff it did, and then, after the last set sold rather well, Bandai announced that it had been the last set, and they were done. I wish that they had continued, and I do understand that the last set might not have been worth printing if the knowledge that it WAS the final run might've negatively impacted sales, but it still felt like a bit of a hosing to not get told, spend that money, and then "we're done!" Sort of like joining a fraternity/sorority, paying your dues, and then learning two weeks later that they are closing on your campus; you CANNOT unaffiliate yourself enough to ever join another, and now much of the benefits on campus of having joined are gone. If you changed whole schools, you could join on another campus, but no. Makes them look like jerks.

 

I sort of don't expect them to actually come out and say "we're done!", but if they are, I still wish that they wouldn't leave us in the dark, and if there is another product, there should NEVER be a good reason NOT to tell us. You don't have much to say on it? Okay, I'd still rather know there is something to anticipate, anything, rather than stand sentinel on a project that then never comes.

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When it comes to RPG products the number of supplements are finite. You can make some new rules, new classes, races, items but after some time you don't have anything to add (unless you are publishing D&D :D )

 

But in setting like 40k where you have whole galaxy to fiil. You can always make a background book about planets, places, people, some plot hooks or adventure.

And i would buy any book with background lore or adventure. I don't need another class book or rules. I need fluff and adventure ideas. I need something to close story of spinward front. Be it campaing, background book about what happens after 20 years of war or something like that.

 

In terms of completion i also would like supplement about navy. You can throw commisar and psyker classes inside if you wish since lots of people would want that even if it won't make sense  ;)

Edited by felismachina

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No products announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

New product announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

I've seen both things said on multiple times here. People assume that no news means no new products and that every new book is the "last" book they'll get.

BYE

 

Announcing what's in the pipeline is not a particularly arduous thing to do, and when things like Second Edition books start appearing, first editions tend to stop appearing. Speculation is a natural human tendency and its not a completely unreasonable conclusion to draw given the situation presented.

 

Given my status as newly unemployed I'm quite happy to beaver away on community content, though it kind of lacks that official stamp everyone is looking for.

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No products announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

New product announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

I've seen both things said on multiple times here. People assume that no news means no new products and that every new book is the "last" book they'll get.

BYE

I can understand this. 

 

But when you have no word at all, and a second edition comes out for what really is the flag ship product of The warhammer 40k series one can only worry, that with out any new information all we can do is sit here and guess. We are all expecting a new book to round up the last three classes, and we would all pay to have it.

 

 

But with the second edition rule set for Dark heresy, we are all expecting at least Ten books most likely alot more. Then you have second addition Rogue trader which is the next logical game to be upgraded . It does feel very much like the game will not get that last book to resolve everything. 

 

 

It's just human nature to wonder and speculate. 

Edited by CommissarWilliams

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No products announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

New product announced = The line has been abandoned!!!

I've seen both things said on multiple times here. People assume that no news means no new products and that every new book is the "last" book they'll get.

BYE

 

The time between books seems to increase and the amount of books for each 40k line seems to decrease. So I'd say there is a lack of interest/resources devoted towards FFG's 40k RPGs.

 

Waiting 13 months for the next book to be announced in case of BC is a long time, and as of this moment it has been 13 months for OW since the last announcement. However, in case of the latter, no announcement has been actually made making the potential time between each future release even longer (if we're going to see anything new at all).

 

We'll see what happens with DH2, but if it follows the same trend as BC and OW, we'll be looking at about 5 supplements before everything slows down to a release pace of BW/OW (I didn't say abandoned, but you can't blame people for thinking that).

 

Please FFG, take my money.  :blink:

Edited by Gridash

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The graph shows a general lack of activity towards the BC line, it takes almost double as much time to release something compared to DH1/RT/DW.

 

In case of OW, it followed the same trend as DH1/RT/DW and then suddenly... nothing. By estimation, we should have gotten almost 2 titles by now.

 

Also note that I'm only including the physical FFG releases (books), not pdfs.

 

I haven't gotten the pdf only adventures like "Only War: Salvaging Solace". Are they big enough to be noted in the graph?

Edited by Gridash

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Let's for argument sake include the GM Kits and the pdf adventures:

 

2vmy5ab.jpg

 

At this point I'm grateful for every new announcement/release.  :wub:

 

Also note that this graph isn't intended to pressure FFG to release new supplements, but more like an informative forecast based on past releases. You guys do what you want, I respect FFG's work, keep it up ! It's just that we 40k addicts are always in need of more/new material.  :lol:

Edited by Gridash

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I think it's fair to say that because of the overall decline of activity towards the 40k lines, we'll be looking at max 1 other supplement for OW and probably none for BC. In case of DH2, I don't think it will ever reach the number of supplements that DH1/RT/DW had, but we'll see. Maybe DH sells better than something exotic like playing the bad guys in BC.

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It does seem like the tides are shifting towards Star Wars overall. Which is fine. I'll never play it because of personal reasons, but the steam is certainly slowing down in the WH40KRP lines. I just hope we get through Ordo Xenos and Malleus supplements in DH2.

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Unfortunately 40k is something of a diminishing franchise with the way that GW has been whoring out the licenses (See Warhammer 40k: Storm of Vengeance and Kill-team), and other associated problems with their sales strategy. I don't think the fandom is likely to die out soon, by any means, but it is slowly pietering out, meanwhile Disney is revitalising the age old classic of Star Wars with a new look and generally new stuff.

I personally probably wont have anything to do with Disney's new vision of Star Wars. I miss my Expanded Universe content. However, 40k needs that boot up the arse as a franchise.

On a related note, I am totally free if FFG wants an extra pair of hands to tinker away on this lot in the background xP (Like that'll happen.)

I do have to wonder if they read these forums, however.

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