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Mandurang

Really struggling to use Improved Reflect

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I realize this may be a little too late in hte development phase to have any meaning, but I just wanted to see if anyone has ecountered this problem in their sessions: My players just can't get enough Threat against opponents to use Improved Reflect using the rules as written. It's basically dependent upon Despair coming up in the dice, and very often it's quite hard to upgrade difficulty against ranged attacks in the first place so that you have a chance to get Despair to begin with. You basically have to invest a ton of XP elsewhere, either in Sense or in another specialization's tree in order to effectively use Improved Reflect, and often only after using additional strain as well.

 

Not to mention that using Dodge and Side Step for that purpose kind of defeats their narrative purpose, I feel. You can't both be dodging attacks and redirecting them, can you?

 

I think making Deflection Training (giving your lightsaber ranks in Deflection) a possibility in the spirit of Defensive Training would very much help here. Especially in those Jedi specializations that deal narratively with being good at deflecting blaster fire. For example, that first row Defensive Training rank in Shien Expert should be Deflection Training. Perhaps another one in Soresu or the second Defensive Training in Niman. Or, at a stretch make Sixth Sense available to more Jedi combat specializations. There is a distinct lack of ranged defense in all the specialization trees, and that's what a lot of Jedi are good at!

 

The same problem doesn't come up with Improved Parry, however, because there's just so many ways to improve melee defense spread out through the trees. Even taking a maneuver to use guarded stance helps in that regard.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

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I brought this fact up very early in the beta process. And was told by a number of folks, in various ways, that I was over-reacting.

For the most part, against a really skilled opponent, you're mostly relying upon them rolling a Despar, so you'd need stuff like Dodge and Side Step along with the Sense power and its defensive Control Upgrade. Against smaller minion groups, you might have a better chance since they are more likely to have rolls that succeed with sufficient threat leftover to trigger the Improved Reflect talent. But again, you need those talents in order to upgrade the difficulty to generate those threat. The Shien Expert is especially hit hard by this fact since it has zero talents to help upgrade the difficulty of an enemy's ranged attack, though the Soresu Defender isn't that much better off against ranged attacks.

My suggestion was to simply reduce the number of threat required from three to two, allowing the talent to come into play more often. Wasn't able to extensively test this, but what little testing I did this allowed Imoroved Reflect to see plenty more use, but also allowed Improved Parry to be used almost every round, which might me too much, particularly given the damage output of a sufficiently modified lightsaber.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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Well, the basic idea of the mechanics used is solid.  It's just that a PC with Improved Reflect has go outside of their specialization in order to have a decent chance of using that talent.  Away's post is a fairly XP intensive build to meet the various requirements (50 XP for most direct route in Misdirect to that Control Upgrade, 45 XP for Improved Reflect if starting with Shien Expert, and then close to 200 more for Force Rating 3, even if going Sage or Seer), and even then it's not a "sure thing" since the target could roll enough Advantage to offset one or more of those three auto-Threat and still have a successful attack roll.

 

Perhaps leave Improved Parry with the 3 Threat requirement, but lower Improved Reflect to only require 2 Threat?  Again, from the limited testing of the reduced Threat cost for both, Improved Reflect at requiring 2 Threat seemed to trigger about as often as Improved Parry did at 3 Threat.  Which to me seems about right, but then again there's the fact that Improved Parry is very limited in target selection (person that attacked you) while Improved Reflect is open to anyone in Medium Range, making it far more versatile.  So it could be that from FFG's perspective, having Improved Reflect not trigger very often is what's best for a balanced game system given how much more it can do in contrast with Improved Parry.

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Hm, I don't think it's over-reacting - I have a player who built a Jedi to use Shien, thinking it would be cool and impressive, and he can't Reflect any shots at all unless he can spend another 50-100 xp to gain ways to upgrade the incoming roll's difficulty, or do counter-intuitive things to deflection like taking cover. But even so, how often do you see a roll of 2-3 difficulty/challenge dice (and 3 is a stretch, you'd have to upgrade an incoming attack's difficulty 3 times to get 3 negative dice for an NPC combat roll!) generate 3 uncanceled Threat? In our sessions so far, he got a grand total of 1 Despair he could use all the times he was attacked, and that because of the use of a destiny point.

 

I think the main problem causing Improved Parry and Improved Reflect to be on unequal footing is the multitude of ways you can increase your melee defense in response to an attack as opposed to the very few ways you have to increase your ranged defense. Even the Shien talent tree has 2-3 ways to increase your melee defense, as opposed to ranged defense - the thing it's supposed to be good at. All trees, like Soresu for another eaxmple, suffer from the same problem.

 

Would a few ranks in Deflection Training or Sixth Sense spread among the specializations be so outrageous? It's what Jedi do, after all. Having a talent available in some specializations to provide a few ranks in deflection training would hardly be unbalancing. There is even a potential mechanism for adding Threat to an incoming roll right there in the Shien tree - just have Disruptive Strike add Failure or Threat per pip spent! Which wouldn't solve most problems with Improved Reflect, but hey, at least it's low-hanging fruit because it's right there, 2 rows down. 

 

The build I had in mind to ensure a higher rate of Improved Reflect was one that utilized the Misdirect power (committing x Force Rating gives incoming attacks x amount of Threat). I would be a redirect-bot, once I got enough XP to get Improved Reflect and Force Rating 3 :)

 

As far as Misdirect goes, that is a good use of it, but it presents some problems when I think about it. One is mechanical - you need to spend 45 XP to obtain the power and commit at least 2 force dice, meaning you have to obtain +1 Force rating from somewhere, to even make it worth your while, which still leaves the Improved Reflect talent an investment with no real immediate return (i.e. you need to spend lots more XP to make any real use out of it). The second problem is a narrative one. Making their opponents not being able to see them doesn't seem to be what Jedi do to reflect blaster bolts. Rather it's a product of training (like every baby Jedi does with the training remote) and foresight through the use of the Force. It's practically the first thing Obi-Wan teaches Luke, to sense and block incoming ranged attacks, and while he doesn't get the hang of it until later, he doesn't seem to have any talent in Misdirection when he does it, or am I wrong with all of this? 

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The heck?  Try focusing on adding disadvantage dice for threat.  This is far more achievable than upgrading dice to chase the Despair dragon.  Wear armor that applies defense for ranged and, if the GM is kind enough for this build to work, a Lorridan(sp?) crystal that when upgraded twice adds +2 deflection, this gives you 3 setback dice with which to generate threat for your opponents. All monetary, and/or story driven.  

 

Environmental issues can also add setback dice, so fill the room with smoke, turn out the lights, etc...

 

The Influence power can be used to generate fear, which may lead to setback dice for an investment of 10XP. For the non-darkside players, add the control upgrade to make the attacker believe any of the above environment issues are in play to add setback dice for an investment of 20XP.  

 

Allowing a miss on Disruptive strike add threat is a tad too munchkin since it already could add failure. The good news is Improved Reflect talent isn't required to progress down the tree so it can be left behind until it becomes useful.

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Copy paste from here http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/122793-parry-and-reflect-mechanics-are-broken-%E2%80%94-let%E2%80%99s-fix-them/page-6

 

OBJECTION!!! (Sorry, I liked that from Ace Torney DS game XD)

 

My first impression about Improved Ref/Parr is that was underpowered or too difficult to activate. My players also agree with me on that point, but after remember the movies and the Clone Wars movies the ratio of "returned hits" weren't so high.

 

After realizing a lot of rolls... A LOT! (I'm sick XD) I arrived to the conclusion that with the actual rules, above 20% of the incoming bolts at medium range are reflected. If you reduce the cost 2 Threats this becomes 30-40% of reflected shots.

 

Movies and CW ratio is above 25-30% (again I'm sick...or need a girlfriend XD).

 

The general roll I used is 2 Proficency 1 Ability vs 1 Challenge 1 Difficulty 1 Setback. So, based on this info, feel free to mod the talent if you wish of course :)

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You could always spend a Destiny point to upgrade an incoming attack.

 

Thanks for the reminder, I mentioned in my post above that that was how my player got his one use of the talent in all our sessions (after having used up several). At the end of the day, using a Destiny Point only marginally increases your chances of getting the required results, even if you upgraded every single incoming roll for a talent that doesn't (and therefore shouldn't, I feel) require a destiny point to activate in the first place.

 

 

The heck?  Try focusing on adding disadvantage dice for threat.  This is far more achievable than upgrading dice to chase the Despair dragon.  Wear armor that applies defense for ranged and, if the GM is kind enough for this build to work, a Lorridan(sp?) crystal that when upgraded twice adds +2 deflection, this gives you 3 setback dice with which to generate threat for your opponents. All monetary, and/or story driven.  

 

Environmental issues can also add setback dice, so fill the room with smoke, turn out the lights, etc...

 

The Influence power can be used to generate fear, which may lead to setback dice for an investment of 10XP. For the non-darkside players, add the control upgrade to make the attacker believe any of the above environment issues are in play to add setback dice for an investment of 20XP.  

 

Allowing a miss on Disruptive strike add threat is a tad too munchkin since it already could add failure. The good news is Improved Reflect talent isn't required to progress down the tree so it can be left behind until it becomes useful.

 

Hmm, and it doesn't seem counterintuitive to you that to use Improved Reflect (i.e. to reflect blaster bolts) you have to fill the room with smoke, turn off the lights, and take cover (and even wear armor of all things)... But to use Improved Parry you don't need to do any of those things? The Shien tree alone (that is, the deflection specialist tree) contains two talents to add setback dice and upgrade difficulty of all incoming melee attack rolls - but for ranged rolls, not a thing. It's a little jarring both mechanically and narratively from where I'm standing.

 

Not chasing any Despair dragons, it simply is the most consistent method of getting the required dice results for activating the talent. Getting 3 Threat occurs quite rarely to begin with, absent additional methods to upgrade difficulty, not to mention 3 uncanceled Threat - now that is a real dragon. Unless, of course, you want to invest lots of XP elsewhere in order to upgrade the difficulty of incoming rolls (like the few methods I suggested above), in which case there is no real use to the talent before you have invested this additional XP. Either way, it's a problem.

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I feel like I'm the only one that likes Improved Reflect as it is and would gladly pay lots of XP for it for the following reasons:

  • It's guaranteed to hit when activated. No need to roll any dice. You just need to worry about the enemies soak and reflect.
  • Sure it doesn't have a high chance to activate, but when it does, it sure is nice. I know this is kind of a thin point, but considering the alternative, it's something.
  • Anything a PC can do, an NPC can do. If you lowered the activation cost that would also affect NPCs as well. And any NPC using a lightsaber with Improved Reflect is sure to have multiple ranks in Adversary. That's a pretty good chance for a despair, if not a few threat.
  • Were I a Lightsaber-using PC, I would be sure to narrate my dice results with plenty of reflection and redirection flavor in them. I don't need 3 threat or a despair in order to describe bolts of blaster fire bouncing off of my laser sword and hitting my opponents after they took strain from some threat.
  • I like that it encourages synergy with other powers and talents. Within the movies and novels, the explanation for Jedi being able to deflect and redirect blaster bolts has always been that they can sense their trajectory. It makes sense to me that to get more potential out of this talent that you would want to invest XP into sense.

 

In short, I agree that it's rare (and I can see where some would say too rare), but I don't think it should be a common occurrence either.

Edited by kaosoe

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I think it's odd that armor defense, cover, darkness, etc. increase your chance at Improved Reflect. We got rid of the threat/desair requirement and use a stain cost instead.

 

Might be a bit too powerful without other restrictions? Or is it a high strain cost? Anyways usgrandprix, I always like your ideas, got any kind of recopilation of your houserules I could check out?

Edited by Leam

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I think it's odd that armor defense, cover, darkness, etc. increase your chance at Improved Reflect. We got rid of the threat/desair requirement and use a stain cost instead.

 

Might be a bit too powerful without other restrictions? Or is it a high strain cost? Anyways usgrandprix, I always like your ideas, got any kind of recopilation of your houserules I could check out?

 

 

Sure. We're still tinkering, especially with Improved Reflect. I just don't like two things about it RAW: the threat cost and the redirecting weak attacker hits to Nemesis and PCs.

 

This Reflect is better and pretty simple to use, but has a limited number of uses per round. Also clarified you can only use it once per attack check.

 

This Improved Reflect is pretty good but is limited by the number of times you can use Reflect and by strain. We added a mechanic where you have to spend more to cheese the minion hits to autohit the Adversary 3 dude.

 

Added Force Power Check disqualifying Supreme Parry.

 

Oh and we don't mirror this for Parry, btw. That's another thing entirely.

 

Here they are:

 

Reflect
When the character suffers a successful attack check from a Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), or Gunnery combat check, if the character is wielding an activated lightsaber, he may take the Reflect incidental to
add failure or threat to the pool results after the roll. The amount of failures or threats he may add is equal to ranks in Reflect + 1.
 
The character may use this incidental a number of times equal to his Force Rating until the beginning of his next turn. He may only use it once per attack.
 
Reflect (Improved)
When the character uses the Reflect incidental on a Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), or Gunnery combat check, the character may spend 3 strain to automatically hit the attacker once with the reflected attack if he is within medium range. Alternatively the character may spend 4 strain to automatically hit any character once if he is within medium range.
 
Damage from this is base weapon damage +1 of the initial ranged attack.
 
The ranged attack’s hit must be one that is able to be reflected and redirected (generally only blaster weapons fall into this category, anything else is subject to GM oversight). This talent may not be used if the original attack incapacitates the character.
 
Reflect (Supreme)
If the character did not make a Combat Check or Force Power Check during his previous turn, the number of times he can use Reflect before his next turn is increased by 1 (still only once per attack). The Reflect (Improved) talent costs 1 fewer strain to activate.

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If you did want to give Imp. Reflect some oomph you could make it a tiered cost.

 

1 threat to redirect to a minion, 2 to a rival, and 3 to a nemesis. It's slightly more complicated than the original but not by much.

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As far as Misdirect goes, that is a good use of it, but it presents some problems when I think about it. One is mechanical - you need to spend 45 XP to obtain the power and commit at least 2 force dice, meaning you have to obtain +1 Force rating from somewhere, to even make it worth your while, which still leaves the Improved Reflect talent an investment with no real immediate return (i.e. you need to spend lots more XP to make any real use out of it).

 

Actually the control upgrade that I was talking about is the one where you commit 1 Force Die per 1 Threat, not the one whee you commit 2 Force Dice to stay shrouded. But still, I agree, XP cost is a factor :) that's why I mentioned "once I got enough XP" :)

 

The second problem is a narrative one. Making their opponents not being able to see them doesn't seem to be what Jedi do to reflect blaster bolts. Rather it's a product of training (like every baby Jedi does with the training remote) and foresight through the use of the Force. It's practically the first thing Obi-Wan teaches Luke, to sense and block incoming ranged attacks, and while he doesn't get the hang of it until later, he doesn't seem to have any talent in Misdirection when he does it, or am I wrong with all of this?

 

I just liked the description of that specific ability: "The Force user gains the ability to blur his own form in the eyes of others, causing their attacks to miss vital spots and creating excellent opportunities for his own counterblows." And the whole idea "trickery" being a part of the Force user's arsenal. My mind went to Corran Horn, who was of course a gifted mind-influencer and who utilized the Tràkata style from time to time. So that'd be a dual-phase lightsaber, Improved Parry, and the Misdirect power, straight up :)

 

Not that it's something that every Jedi learns, obviously; I just noticed that the two effects would lend really nicely to each other.

Edited by awayputurwpn

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Actually the control upgrade that I was talking about is the one where you commit 1 Force Die per 1 Threat, not the one whee you commit 2 Force Dice to stay shrouded. But still, I agree, XP cost is a factor :) that's why I mentioned "once I got enough XP" :)

 

I just liked the description of that specific ability: "The Force user gains the ability to blur his own form in the eyes of others, causing their attacks to miss vital spots and creating excellent opportunities for his own counterblows." And the whole idea "trickery" being a part of the Force user's arsenal. My mind went to Corran Horn, who was of course a gifted mind-influencer and who utilized the Tràkata style from time to time. So that'd be a dual-phase lightsaber, Improved Parry, and the Misdirect power, straight up :)

 

Not that it's something that every Jedi learns, obviously; I just noticed that the two effects would lend really nicely to each other.

 

 

Thanks for explaining. I find I didn't make myself clear, I apologize - I realized which upgrade you meant but I thought that at least 2 committed Force Dice (to generate 2 Threat) would be necessary to make it worth it at all, hence why I mentioned 2 Force Rating, not as a hard requirement but more as a practical one. At any rate, it's a really nice use of the power, and great that it works for you. I even pitched it, but my player was a little wary of trying to explain his use of reflect through misdirection - he just wanted a more "standard" flavor since it's something every Jedi can do since they begin training. And then again there remains the real problem of having to invest more XP to make the talent even usable.

 

 

 

@usgrandprix, those are some good house rules. I was considering tinkering with a more granular approach to Parry and Reflect myself, so that it's cheaper and you could activate it more times per round in order to involve things like Force Rating (like you did, which I really like) and possibly ranks in Lightsaber. But I realize all these ideas are solidly in house rule territoriy, since they complicate things and they may not be for everyone, therefore I made this post just to address a problem I identified with the rules as the are written and a possible (simple) solution: sprinkle a few ranged defense rating talents among the trees (which I called Deflection Training in my posts above). All the same I like your ideas a lot.

 

You don't think the initial use of Reflect should also involve some strain? Using your Reflect, you can deflect bolts (without redirecting them) pretty easily. Adding 2 Failures to a roll (which you can do with only 1 Reflect talent) makes it quite easy to not get hit at all. Maybe 1-2 strain to activate Reflect wouldn't be too out of the question. Also I'm not sure I get why Reflect should add Threat if you have nothing to use that Threat for immediately after (like Improved Reflect, the Threat cost for which you did away with). It could unbalance things very quickly at higher ranks of Reflect, as you could generate a few Failures to prevent the roll from hitting, and then a ton of Threat to cause other inconveniences to your enemies.

 

@kaosoe, I like the added nuance, the only problem that presents itself is that the player must then know what kind of enemy they are facing, which can quickly break narrative immersion: "this guy is a Nemesis, let's use up our dailies!". I like to keep things as vague as possible to keep my players guessing. Obviously how hard it is to hit an enemy by way of difficulty and challenge dice kind of gives up the game, but still.

 

 

---

 

While I think there is a far easier solution to the problem that I've already outlined (sprinkle in some ranged defense talents to represent Jedi deflection training and skill in channeling the Force to that end), I'm also tinkering with a defensive stance-like talent that adds automatic Threat to all incoming attacks in the Shien Talent tree, like so: 

 

Lightsaber Barrier

 

Once per round, may perform the Lightsaber Barrier maneuver. For the next round, when targeted by a ranged attack, may suffer an amount of strain and add an equal amount of Threat to that attack. Strain suffered cannot exceed Cunning.

Edited by Mandurang

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Lightsaber Barrier

 

Once per round, may perform the Lightsaber Barrier maneuver. For the next round, when targeted by a ranged attack, may suffer an amount of strain and add an equal amount of Threat to that attack. Strain suffered cannot exceed Cunning.

 

This looks pretty good, but even with a strain cost, this move seems really good for a single maneuver. Especially since it keys off an characteristic that a Shien user is already going to have in spades.

 

Some tweaks I would consider. Either..

  • Make it once per encounter (Based on the strength of other talents in the game, even that might be too good.)
  • Have it cost an action. Being able to dish out hurt and still deflect bolts for no additional rolling sounds too good.
  • Make it cost another resource as well, such as a destiny point,
  • Have Agility or Willpower be the capstone.

or....

  • Make it ranked rather than a one-and-done talent purchase.

But I admit I prefer Improved Reflect as is, so my suggestions err on the side of caution. In short, your talent is a must have, which is a good indicator of a red flag.

Edited by kaosoe

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You don't think the initial use of Reflect should also involve some strain? Using your Reflect, you can deflect bolts (without redirecting them) pretty easily. Adding 2 Failures to a roll (which you can do with only 1 Reflect talent) makes it quite easy to not get hit at all. Maybe 1-2 strain to activate Reflect wouldn't be too out of the question. Also I'm not sure I get why Reflect should add Threat if you have nothing to use that Threat for immediately after (like Improved Reflect, the Threat cost for which you did away with). It could unbalance things very quickly at higher ranks of Reflect, as you could generate a few Failures to prevent the roll from hitting, and then a ton of Threat to cause other inconveniences to your enemies.

Thanks. Yes it is more powerful on one attack but note that you can only use it a number of times per turn based on FR. So if your FR is 1 you can use it once. If you are attacked twice...

It's faster becasue there is less calculation per use and it is used less. In that round where you were attacked twice if you use the RAW Reflect on both you are calculating damage reduction, damage, soak, strain... twice. In this alternative you use Reflect once, it probably misses and then see what happens on the next one. In the end probably the same amount of damage for less fiddling.

As for strain I just think it's not right for the Talent. And the FR limitation is a big limiting factor. And Strain Reflect selects for Stun weapons, which we do not see much in the source.

As for applying threat, this is mainly to stop autofire, two-weapon, linked, weapon qualities, etc. From my perspective there's a lot to mitigate before you get to spending threat. But I use pretty powerful foes throwing lots of advantage to cancel before they get to spending threat. And that's only if they don;t want to use it to cancel successes.

All this is admittedly more powerful than RAW. Maybe less than you think. But I like Jedi to be special and I've got to say the party in my game only has one force user but they are all some very powerful characters.

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You could always spend a Destiny point to upgrade an incoming attack.

 

Thanks for the reminder, I mentioned in my post above that that was how my player got his one use of the talent in all our sessions (after having used up several). At the end of the day, using a Destiny Point only marginally increases your chances of getting the required results, even if you upgraded every single incoming roll for a talent that doesn't (and therefore shouldn't, I feel) require a destiny point to activate in the first place.

 

 

The heck?  Try focusing on adding disadvantage dice for threat.  This is far more achievable than upgrading dice to chase the Despair dragon.  Wear armor that applies defense for ranged and, if the GM is kind enough for this build to work, a Lorridan(sp?) crystal that when upgraded twice adds +2 deflection, this gives you 3 setback dice with which to generate threat for your opponents. All monetary, and/or story driven.  

 

Environmental issues can also add setback dice, so fill the room with smoke, turn out the lights, etc...

 

The Influence power can be used to generate fear, which may lead to setback dice for an investment of 10XP. For the non-darkside players, add the control upgrade to make the attacker believe any of the above environment issues are in play to add setback dice for an investment of 20XP.  

 

Allowing a miss on Disruptive strike add threat is a tad too munchkin since it already could add failure. The good news is Improved Reflect talent isn't required to progress down the tree so it can be left behind until it becomes useful.

 

Hmm, and it doesn't seem counterintuitive to you that to use Improved Reflect (i.e. to reflect blaster bolts) you have to fill the room with smoke, turn off the lights, and take cover (and even wear armor of all things)... But to use Improved Parry you don't need to do any of those things? The Shien tree alone (that is, the deflection specialist tree) contains two talents to add setback dice and upgrade difficulty of all incoming melee attack rolls - but for ranged rolls, not a thing. It's a little jarring both mechanically and narratively from where I'm standing.

 

Not chasing any Despair dragons, it simply is the most consistent method of getting the required dice results for activating the talent. Getting 3 Threat occurs quite rarely to begin with, absent additional methods to upgrade difficulty, not to mention 3 uncanceled Threat - now that is a real dragon. Unless, of course, you want to invest lots of XP elsewhere in order to upgrade the difficulty of incoming rolls (like the few methods I suggested above), in which case there is no real use to the talent before you have invested this additional XP. Either way, it's a problem.

 

Having the uncanceled threat isn't a problem, I've come across it a fair amount in my group, but others may have different experiences. It should be noted that Shien Expert has been crafted to close distance and engage opponents where the parry options come into play more often, or increase difficulty on the blaster wielder.  It seems the reflect blaster bolts option has taken a back seat to keep with the whole 'Jedi as close-combat machines' concept going for all lightsaber specializations.  I would agree that it would be nice to see a talent that helped improved reflect, but you can use the existing system to apply quite a few setback dice to any opponent.  I see it as something the character can capitalize on but not something that should be used in every instance since that effectively turns the Jedi into a ranged combat spec that NPCs should quickly stop targeting with anything less than grenades.  

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Lightsaber Barrier

 

Once per round, may perform the Lightsaber Barrier maneuver. For the next round, when targeted by a ranged attack, may suffer an amount of strain and add an equal amount of Threat to that attack. Strain suffered cannot exceed Cunning.

 

This looks pretty good, but even with a strain cost, this move seems really good for a single maneuver. Especially since it keys off an characteristic that a Shien user is already going to have in spades.

 

Some tweaks I would consider. Either..

  • Make it once per encounter (Based on the strength of other talents in the game, even that might be too good.)
  • Have it cost an action. Being able to dish out hurt and still deflect bolts for no additional rolling sounds too good.
  • Make it cost another resource as well, such as a destiny point,
  • Have Agility or Willpower be the capstone.

or....

  • Make it ranked rather than a one-and-done talent purchase.

But I admit I prefer the talent as is, so my suggestions err on the side of caution. In short, your talent is a must have, which is a good indicator of a red flag.

 

 

Good ideas, all. If we're balancing this theoretical talent, I'd lean more towards making it cost an action, as an ultra-defensive tactic against ranged attacks, that could also enable you to use Supreme Reflect later on, thus providing at least some synergy with both of your advanced deflection skills in the spirit of Shien.

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I have just had another idea - what if Improved Reflect was rebalanced around range, with redirecting to more distant targets costing more Threat?

 

mproved Reflect

 

When using Reflect on a hit that generated DESPAIR or THREAT THREAT, may hit one target within Short range with the same damage as the initial hit. For each additional THREAT, may increase range to target by one range band.

 

 

 

So a target in medium range would cost 3 Threat, exactly how the talent is written now. The important difference being that you can redirect fire to short range targets for 2 Threat, which means you can activate the talent against nearby opponents even if you can't get the 3 Threat the talent calls for now. However, it also means Nemesis-level enemies can still be relatively safe from "cheap" reflected fire because they can stay out of the fray, making it harder for you to reach them. Hitting a Nemesis who hasn't engaged you in close range is still hard. You could even cap the talent at medium range if you don't want to have amazingly lucky Jedi redirecting fire to long range targets.

 

The concept makes a lot of narrative and dramatic sense in my head, any thoughts?

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