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Auzymundius

How to deal with loot?

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Try to engage them with something along the lines of a group of hive scum using autoguns. Tactics such as these can prove much more deadly than one powerful enemy and provide more balanced loot.

 

I almost killed my group on multiple occasions with a groups of 5 - 15 cultists/hive gangers/etc. with autoguns. Give them cover, let some of them rain suppressing fire and the rest uses overwatch or just snipes. Maybe some of them try to flank the players.

This made getting good loot from the big baddies all the more rewarding.

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Lots of great advice. It's taboo, not practical, in disrepair. The best option is always of course to just talk to your players "I wanna keep a tight lid on the loot, and in general looting badguys is sorta taboo in setting."

 

What I mostly do is, I mostly toss guys with similar/worse/incompatible gear at my guys. My guys pissed off a big shot? Well now they get to deal with a hit team of stormtrooperish type guys whose hellguns make a mockery of their carapace or death cultists using simple swords. Even a bunch of lowly gangers, with autoguns, molotovs, flamers(fire is death), and a few traps can ruin their day if they fight smart. I occasionally throw guys with nice gear at them, but I generally let them have it, rarely I'll say it was destroyed in the fight or it radiates EVIL(!). I'd only really chirp up if were playing like DW where a lot of looting would be OOC for the majority of PCs.

 

That said I mostly run RT, I haven't run any low powered DH games. One mean trick I would try though now that I've gone through this topic, is a gene locked power sword. Anyone who doesn't pass the test gets hit with a -50 tox test per turn. If they figured out a way to beat it, by either disabling it, splicing their own genes, or getting a lot(100s) of prisoners to try to pick it up. Then they could have it. They'd get a nice upgrade only when I put the enemy there, they'd deal with lasting but fun complications, feel like champs for taking and keeping it, and most importantly I'd have the fun of scaring them into thinking they killed themselves when they felt the poison. You know ask "Are you sure," to really sell that they messed up. I wanna run DH now for this moment actually.

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Guess that I've been going in the wrong direction because my players have plenty of good stuff with them. But supposedly a puritan crackdown can fix that little issue. Or a good or regular party wipe.

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In the first game I ran the acolytes would run into killsquads sent by the antagonists (logicians) who wore carapace armour and used modded autoguns. I didn't want the players to have these items so I put in a fail safe to ensure they wouldn't get them. With the death of the last killsquaddie small explosives would be triggered in the arms and armour they used, turning both into useless scrap. 

 

Or maybe you're in a hive and the guy with the awesome badass plasma pistol dies near a ledge and then proceeds to tumble to ground in such a manner that causes the weapon to fall over the ledge and be lost in the darkness below?

 

Or if they're wearing armour and the acolytes slice them up, destroying the armour in the process?

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I think "no you can't have this and here's a contrived explanation for why" is boring. Just outright denying fancy gear is only going to disappoint your players and make them feel cheated.

 

Instead it's much, much more interesting to say "sure, you can loot this, but there could be consequences". Make picking up enemy gear be a potentially risky prospect. It could be tainted in some way, marked as an enemy weapon, fitted with some sort of hidden tracker, all sorts of things.

 

I just generally find that as a GM, saying "no" is something you should avoid. It's much more interesting to say "yes, but..."

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I just remember how people went on and on and on about how this would never be a problem with the "new and improved" requisition system and I'm laughing my ass off.

 

Anyway, the responsible thing to do is bring the power sword to your inquisitor or interrogator for debrief, tell him you've managed to secure powerful technology from the heretic and ask if the cell's tech priests and priests could check to see if it was tainted or of use by the squad. I mean, seriously, do the players think that if even one of them mentions "power sword" the inquisitor is not going to ask where it is? And if they don't, and suddenly show up with a new powersword, he's going to wonder where they got it as well, and what they've been spending the inquisition's money on.

 

Another option regarding awesome gear, and if your group keeps wanting it, is to offer them the option of starting out with stormtrooper carapace, hotshot las and power weapons. The downside is, their first assignment is going to be stormtrooper grade a la "We have reports of a genestealer cult on..."

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I just remember how people went on and on and on about how this would never be a problem with the "new and improved" requisition system and I'm laughing my ass off.

 

Anyway, the responsible thing to do is bring the power sword to your inquisitor or interrogator for debrief, tell him you've managed to secure powerful technology from the heretic and ask if the cell's tech priests and priests could check to see if it was tainted or of use by the squad. I mean, seriously, do the players think that if even one of them mentions "power sword" the inquisitor is not going to ask where it is? And if they don't, and suddenly show up with a new powersword, he's going to wonder where they got it as well, and what they've been spending the inquisition's money on.

 

Another option regarding awesome gear, and if your group keeps wanting it, is to offer them the option of starting out with stormtrooper carapace, hotshot las and power weapons. The downside is, their first assignment is going to be stormtrooper grade a la "We have reports of a genestealer cult on..."

I don't think anyone was trying to claim the requisition system would prevent looting of equipment entirely. Obviously players are going to want to take stuff that is better than what they've got. However, it does prevent players from doing stupid things like stripping every corpse of everything valuable, carrying around backpacks full of auto pistols, etc. all just to sell for money to supplement their income to buy ammo or food or to save up for something nice.

 

Why would an inquisitor care that one of his acolytes suddenly has a power sword? Influence is an individual stat that represents each character's individual contacts, power and wealth so its not really wasting the inquisition's money unless the Inquisitor thinks they used his influence value to acquire it. This is also assuming the Inquisitor is the type to even interact with his acolytes face to face which seems to be rarer in this sector.

Smart, forward thinking characters would probably want to have any equipment acquired from the enemy checked out for corruption of the machine spirit or booby traps but many characters would have no reason to think of that sort of thing unless there is something obviously wrong with the item. For example a feral world character would have no reason to suspect a weapon might be genelocked and set to explode upon unauthorized use while a tech priest would probably want to give it a good looking over and reconsecrate it before it is used, while a puritanical cleric may just want to burn everything the heretics touched regardless of how useful the item might be.  

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The powerblade is perfectly fine for them to get, it's about as small an upgrade to a chainsword as is possible to get (it's actually a worse weapon in most situations).

 

Contriving reasons to stop them getting it (whether it be needing to inspect it cos its daemonic to oh it broke when he dropped it) just diminish the game.  Preparation is the key, if you think just a little before putting items into the game you never come across these issues. A couple of guidelines:

 

No NPC should have equipment that it doesn't have either the personal (ws bs) or temporal (influence) power to defend.

 

An Apex-Prince may have a Plasma Pistol, because the wrath of an entire noble house will fall upon anyone trying to part him from it (43 influence), though he himself sucks. (34 WS 29 BS)

An Eversor Assasin may have an Executor Pistol because who is gonna take it off him? (WS 70 BS 75)

 

Any NPC with equipment the players aren't allowed, should be willing and capable of killing the PC's if they are dumb

 

The Inquisitor has a rosarius and power fist and wears master crafted carapace armour, if the PC's attack him the games over and they know it.

 

If in doubt buff the NPC and give it worse gear

 

It's easy to just give an NPC 10 extra Str or toughness if you want a ganger with a bit more oomph, rather than giving him a better weapon buff his stats instead.

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I just remember how people went on and on and on about how this would never be a problem with the "new and improved" requisition system and I'm laughing my ass off.

 

Anyway, the responsible thing to do is bring the power sword to your inquisitor or interrogator for debrief, tell him you've managed to secure powerful technology from the heretic and ask if the cell's tech priests and priests could check to see if it was tainted or of use by the squad. I mean, seriously, do the players think that if even one of them mentions "power sword" the inquisitor is not going to ask where it is? And if they don't, and suddenly show up with a new powersword, he's going to wonder where they got it as well, and what they've been spending the inquisition's money on.

 

Another option regarding awesome gear, and if your group keeps wanting it, is to offer them the option of starting out with stormtrooper carapace, hotshot las and power weapons. The downside is, their first assignment is going to be stormtrooper grade a la "We have reports of a genestealer cult on..."

I don't think anyone was trying to claim the requisition system would prevent looting of equipment entirely. Obviously players are going to want to take stuff that is better than what they've got. However, it does prevent players from doing stupid things like stripping every corpse of everything valuable, carrying around backpacks full of auto pistols, etc. all just to sell for money to supplement their income to buy ammo or food or to save up for something nice.

 

Hello all, am Devil Redneck, new GM but not new to WH40K :)

That's a lot of very good contributions, really interesting to read.

 

Especially on the Influence and Requisition system, where I have the most reserve ...

Sharsnik38, you say that people won't loot and sell with the new system, but I am not so sure. Here's why (I don't pretend I know everything, so don't hesitate to correct me if needed):

 

As explained in DH2, currencies can vary in systems / planets and the Imperium can't have a homogenous (and stable) money system. It leads to local currencies, for instance. DH 2 introduce Influence to cope it without using the "real" money.

But the players could definitely use it.

For instance, why not looting everything, going to "Shops", and trading it against other items or local money, whereas they can buy stuff with it before leaving the planet with the appropriate Influence rolls.

 

I am planning to GM the first campaign in the core rulebook with my friends, and they are definitely the type of players that will do that, at least for fun (DIABLO style).

I do not know how to handle this kind of situation, as it appears totally logic and normal. A excuse like "Nooo, uhhhh, you can't because of reasons and DH2 is not working like that" will tarnish the game.

 

Thanks for reading !

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I do not know how to handle this kind of situation, as it appears totally logic and normal. A excuse like "Nooo, uhhhh, you can't because of reasons and DH2 is not working like that" will tarnish the game.

 

It really comes down to what sort of characters your group is comprised of. Honour and superstition are very much factors that ought to be kept in mind in a game like this.

 

"We are servants of the Emperor, not peasant rabble picking up the crumbs that fell from someone elses' table."

 

"This device was defiled by servants of the Ruinous Powers, we must not allow anyone to lay their hands on it, lest they spread its taint."

 

Note that this will likely not apply to all of your group's characters, as the players' conduct will greatly depend on their origins and upbringing, but most groups have at least one character who was an Arbites or a Cleric and so on. The more mundane enemies such as gangers and low-level security or bodyguards may carry arms that are "neutral" enough to allow using or selling them, but with cultists or aliens, there's a good chance that their armour and weapons are not just of higher grade, but also visibly marked -- which would not only offend faithful player characters, but surely also many potential buyers. It takes only one merchant to freak out over what your PCs want to sell them, reporting them to the local authorities, which would then either complicate their mission or require intervention from their Inquisitor, followed by a rather stern talking-to about the player characters' priorities.

 

Other than that, carry/transportation limitations (not just weight but also bulk - common sense applies!) can play a role, as well as a shortage of time (most people will forego looting when fired upon by enemy reinforcements).

 

It's a great many factors that all come together to make looting a somewhat rare instance, especially when we consider that a team of Inquisition-funded agents should be pretty well equipped to begin with, further reducing the likelihood of players feeling a desire to plunder.

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I do not know how to handle this kind of situation, as it appears totally logic and normal. A excuse like "Nooo, uhhhh, you can't because of reasons and DH2 is not working like that" will tarnish the game.

 

It really comes down to what sort of characters your group is comprised of. Honour and superstition are very much factors that ought to be kept in mind in a game like this.

 

"We are servants of the Emperor, not peasant rabble picking up the crumbs that fell from someone elses' table."

 

"This device was defiled by servants of the Ruinous Powers, we must not allow anyone to lay their hands on it, lest they spread its taint."

 

Note that this will likely not apply to all of your group's characters, as the players' conduct will greatly depend on their origins and upbringing, but most groups have at least one character who was an Arbites or a Cleric and so on. The more mundane enemies such as gangers and low-level security or bodyguards may carry arms that are "neutral" enough to allow using or selling them, but with cultists or aliens, there's a good chance that their armour and weapons are not just of higher grade, but also visibly marked -- which would not only offend faithful player characters, but surely also many potential buyers. It takes only one merchant to freak out over what your PCs want to sell them, reporting them to the local authorities, which would then either complicate their mission or require intervention from their Inquisitor, followed by a rather stern talking-to about the player characters' priorities.

 

Other than that, carry/transportation limitations (not just weight but also bulk - common sense applies!) can play a role, as well as a shortage of time (most people will forego looting when fired upon by enemy reinforcements).

 

It's a great many factors that all come together to make looting a somewhat rare instance, especially when we consider that a team of Inquisition-funded agents should be pretty well equipped to begin with, further reducing the likelihood of players feeling a desire to plunder.

 

Devilredneck, I agree with everything Lynata said but will add some comments of my own.

Will it really be logical and normal? Looting ammo is fine in the field as it keeps them combat effective for longer or looting stuff that is better than what they've got as long as its not tainted in some way but a character with a halfway decent influence has enough wealth and connections to not be worried about the pocket change generated by collecting used auto pistols. Point out that unlike in a videogame the characters don't have inventory slots and equipment has bulk so a guy can't carry around 4 suits of flak armor 5 autoguns and a sack of misc ammo at least not without looking like a moron and leaving themselves exhausted and exposed. Its very undignified behavior for most agents of the inquisition and indicates a serious priority issue that most inquisitors would be unhappy about.

I would also argue that selling a bunch of random junk would not generate enough income to even give one point of influence as influence is much bigger in scale than that. It both represents wealth and reputation. Plus considering the party will mostly be dealing with heretics and criminals much of what they come across may not be in very good shape or may be outright heretical in design.

If they end up in a fight with members of the imperium and loot their equipment it could help that organization track them down as the perpetrators more easily and create a new enemy for the group (example: kill an arbitrator due to a misunderstanding and take his bolt pistol to use, another arbitrator later sees it and recognizes initials carved in the side or something and knows who it belonged to and therefore that the new owner is likely the killer and calls it in, now you have the arbites as a new and powerful enemy). 

Most worlds with major trade would probably have currency exchanges of some sort or some other way to do business. The imperium survives off significant interplanetary trade so would need some way to deal with different currencies. Also the characters could use their connections with their background adeptas on the particular world to get local currency or just put it on adepta credit. Some requisition tests wouldn't even involve the actual exchange of money but simply calling in a favor or using your reputation as someone important to just get what you want.

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Carrying capacity and time are two good insurances against excessive looting. If the party takes down a sentry with a heavy-calibre autogun, expect someone to grab it on the way past. But systematically stripping a platoon of dudes of weapons, sidearms and armour takes time that they don't have - and probably weighs too much anyway.

 

If the acolytes hit a heretic hideout in conjunction with an arbites or sanctionary task force, the cops will impound any leftover weapons as evidence (their inquisitor may expect them to do so too). If they did it solo, sooner or later someone is going to turn up to investigate the firefight, and if they try the defence of 'we're the Inquisition, honest', it may go badly for them if they can't prove it (and if they're normal acolytes, they may not be able to prove it to a third party).

 

To be honest, I don't mind the players looting stuff. The main issue is if they acquire things like plasma weapons and power sword - but that's where things like subtlety come into play; this isn't a game of Diablo - if you walk around mid-low hive Desoleum with a powered blade, people will notice, your subtlety will be shot to buggery, and the fiendish heretics will know you're coming.

 

subtlety is a big balancing factor the GM can use, even if it's not done too mechanically; yes, a region may not be especially safe but if you walk around with military-grade or high-tech weaponry, people notice. Even in countries in the world today, you might be legally able to openly carry a firearm but if you walk around in SWAT body armour with an MP5 submachinegun slung on your shoulder on a regular basis, what makes you think you can do secret investigations?

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In my actual game, the problem isn´t really arising.

At the end of the session (start of a downtime), my players ASK which gear they can keep and which the Inquisition is not leaving with them for reason X.

During downtime/level-up my players generate "wish lists" of new gear to requisition during downtime and hand them over to me. After I have all wishlists, I go through them, cross out stuff after talking to be sure I know their priority and et viola.

Really, just through this whole acquisition system out of the window! It might be useful as "rough guidelines", but thats about it.
 

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To be honest, I don't mind the players looting stuff. The main issue is if they acquire things like plasma weapons and power sword - but that's where things like subtlety come into play; this isn't a game of Diablo - if you walk around mid-low hive Desoleum with a powered blade, people will notice, your subtlety will be shot to buggery, and the fiendish heretics will know you're coming.

 

Imho, as soon as players start encountering enemies who wield such advanced weaponry, they kind of "earned the right" to carry that stuff as well, at least after besting them. It's just part of the progression, kind of like with Megaman. :P

 

That being said, there's going to be a lot of cases where - subtlety aside (which won't be a factor all the time, depending on how the players choose to operate, their cover IDs if they have any, and the world in question) - you can still delay things by referring to the aforementioned "visual corruption" of the item in question. After all, 40k is a setting where a weapon is often not just a weapon, but also a symbol, and as such Chaos cults will make it look like on of theirs (8-star, bat wings, diabolical edges) just as much as Imperial forces embellish their own with sanctified iconography (Aquila, eagle wings, skulls).

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Daemon weapons are nice "rare drops" to mess with your players.

 

If you are a puritan or you work for a puritan inquisitor you might not even want to/be allowed to use it.

So you get nothing.

 

If you are radical you now gotta take daemon mastery tests when you use it and if you fail...

You loose! Good day sir!

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Most of all, that would also be an interesting way to "test" your players and potentially trigger some cool roleplaying between the different types of characters, who might start to argue what to do with such dangerous items. :)

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Thanks for the answers !

 

Most of all, that would also be an interesting way to "test" your players and potentially trigger some cool roleplaying between the different types of characters, who might start to argue what to do with such dangerous items. :)

Oh yes :)

 

Basically, I do not have too much worries with tainted items, because it's pretty straightforward. If they take it, they have to assume the consequences ("Hey Joe, all of a sudden, you have a urge to strangle the guy in front of you. Please roll a WP test -20" :D ).

I will argue with them if they tries to take too much loot ("5 armors, really ? Where do you store it ? You know what, no, don't answer that"). But, they could easily take a couple of rifles, guns, ammo and "valuables" from poor gangers and try to exchange them for cool stuff. Not a bolter with 5 poor laser rifle ..., but maybe other things.

 

But, still, I think I have understood your points and I will lead them other way, or maybe just take it back to the inquisitor and gains some favors with it (yay 5 lasguns, thanks ...). Requisitions and acquisitions will have to be made through their hierarchy (ordos) to ensure they have access to "correct" items, not tainted as well, and maybe more.

 

I found this homerules from Ezra Kainus where the inquisitor is giving the acolytes basic stuff, and specific ones depending on the mission (fake IDs for infiltration for example, plus some clothes), that should be returned intact, if possible. I really like that as it clarify the requisition, and leaves the acolytes more time to focus on the adventure.

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I found this homerules from Ezra Kainus where the inquisitor is giving the acolytes basic stuff, and specific ones depending on the mission (fake IDs for infiltration for example, plus some clothes), that should be returned intact, if possible. I really like that as it clarify the requisition, and leaves the acolytes more time to focus on the adventure.

 

Yep, in one of my DH games we used a similar system. There was still an incentive for players to save up for their own, customisable gear, but no pressure to loot things to counter a feeling of being underpowered/undergeared. Not to mention that it fit -- it always came across a bit weird that you're supposed to work for the Imperium's most influential organisation, yet sent off with a wooden staff and a used revolver. :P

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I found this homerules from Ezra Kainus where the inquisitor is giving the acolytes basic stuff, and specific ones depending on the mission (fake IDs for infiltration for example, plus some clothes), that should be returned intact, if possible. I really like that as it clarify the requisition, and leaves the acolytes more time to focus on the adventure.

 

Yep, in one of my DH games we used a similar system. There was still an incentive for players to save up for their own, customisable gear, but no pressure to loot things to counter a feeling of being underpowered/undergeared. Not to mention that it fit -- it always came across a bit weird that you're supposed to work for the Imperium's most influential organisation, yet sent off with a wooden staff and a used revolver. :P

 

 

Yep, exactly :)

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