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Darth evil

Thinking about giving up tournaments

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Fat Hans and other turrets are not the end of the world, nor are phantoms with ACD.

 

The game evolves as does the way forces are built and beaten.

 

Evolve or die.

 

Swarms still kick Fat Han builds in the teeth as do Tanky Swarms like B-Wings and Headhunters. Change up what you're doing and when people take stuff that kills of Fat Han quick they'll change it up as well.

 

But if you're not having fun, do something different. I'm not saying quit the game, that's a loss you don't deserve to take. But play something fun for you, missions or just some fun friendly games.

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Tank and turrets and engine dodging make them super frustrating. Oh and no penalty from rocks.

 

To be fair, the last thing is only Dash and he at least compensates with a Range 1 weakness if he takes Outrider and a 2 dice offense if he doesn't.

 

obstacles absolutely wreck YT-1300 pilots, insofar as they can be wrecked (no evade action, no boost action, no ptl if applicable...and no chance that Dash Render crew replaces C3PO or R2-D2 or Luke/gunner since those will still work as will the arc-less gun) and landing on asteroids is the only thing in the game that can stop them from firing in a given turn. Plus, obstacles prevent boosting if they'd overlap the ship's final position.

 

Obstacles actually make it possible to hem them in with numbers (blocking also hurts them), and I thank the FFG gods that crew Dash does not carry his pilot variant's ability.

Edited by ficklegreendice

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So I'm supposedly set to play a friend who wants to try Dash Outrider HLc + 2 ORS.  That's gonna be interesting.  

 

I'm wondering if I should take the Paul Heaver Decimator build: Oicunn Gunner Pred (Moffy J) / Omicron Vader / AP / AP 

or just go rebels something bulky.  

 

My Decimator might get plinked to death by 2vs0 shots.  

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Never seen the Paul Heaver build in action, but I've seen and experienced the anti-Dash decimater because a member of the local meta flies Chiraneau and Echo specifically to counter out-rider builds.

 

Specifically, Chiraneau w/ Ysanne, Gunner, Engine, and Determination. Echo w/ACD , Veteran, Fire Control System, and Rebel Captive.

 

Going by his ideas, it's the combination of high mobility and higher PS that completely shaft Dash when complemented by literally deploying as many obstacles as you can in the corner where they won't affect the game :P

 

The most crucial upgrades in my opinion are Chiraneau's EU that lets him keep pace and even fly into the range 1 bubble, and Echo's Rebel Captive that makes Dash really antsy to use Push the Limit or even target Echo.

 

On my end, I've found that V.I + PTL + Prot Rockets Jake Farrel just eats Dash alive...only very very slowly :P

 

Point being, the current super-Dash builds get shafted by stress slightly less badly than phantoms do and he really hates fast ships. Imperial players have an easy pass to countering him (Rebel Captive).

 

Hell, I'm bringing Boba (Predator + Captive) to a tournament tomorrow. It's only the 2nd one since Wave 5 became publicly available, so I will more than likely see a fair number of Dashes. Not sure if Boba will catch Dash, but he kept up surprisingly easily with that Chiraneau & Echo build meant to counter Dash...so I'm thinking my chances are good :D

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I just took third at a local tourney (same one as Elver) flying a build consisting of:

 

Bounty Hunter with Rebel Captive

OGP with Vader

OGP with Engine Upgrade and Advanced Sensors

Academy Pilot

 

I knew that a lot of people would be flying their new Decimators and Outriders. Those ships have a lot of firepower, but they still only get one attack per round. I had a combined 33 hit points on the table for them to worry about, throwing eleven red dice.

 

Point being that, yes, you'll see lots of Falcons. But those ships have very specific weaknesses, most notably the fact that your opponent will only get one attack out of 3/5ths of his build points. That's a weakness that you can exploit.

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Never seen the Paul Heaver build in action, but I've seen and experienced the anti-Dash decimater because a member of the local meta flies Chiraneau and Echo specifically to counter out-rider builds.

 

Specifically, Chiraneau w/ Ysanne, Gunner, Engine, and Determination. Echo w/ACD , Veteran, Fire Control System, and Rebel Captive.

 

Going by his ideas, it's the combination of high mobility and higher PS that completely shaft Dash when complemented by literally deploying as many obstacles as you can in the corner where they won't affect the game :P

 

The most crucial upgrades in my opinion are Chiraneau's EU that lets him keep pace and even fly into the range 1 bubble, and Echo's Rebel Captive that makes Dash really antsy to use Push the Limit or even target Echo.

 

On my end, I've found that V.I + PTL + Prot Rockets Jake Farrel just eats Dash alive...only very very slowly :P

 

Point being, the current super-Dash builds get shafted by stress slightly less badly than phantoms do and he really hates fast ships. Imperial players have an easy pass to countering him (Rebel Captive).

 

Hell, I'm bringing Boba (Predator + Captive) to a tournament tomorrow. It's only the 2nd one since Wave 5 became publicly available, so I will more than likely see a fair number of Dashes. Not sure if Boba will catch Dash, but he kept up surprisingly easily with that Chiraneau & Echo build meant to counter Dash...so I'm thinking my chances are good :D

Decimator + PTL + Ysanne + EU is better than determination. Reason being, you boost in the combat phase. So when you move, you either fly past or bump into Dash. After he moves/boosts/barrels, you boost. You can quite easily get into his range 1 bubble unless he flat out runs away. And if you can block that option, you can basically always stay in his donut hole.

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Decimator + PTL + Ysanne + EU is better than determination. Reason being, you boost in the combat phase. So when you move, you either fly past or bump into Dash. After he moves/boosts/barrels, you boost. You can quite easily get into his range 1 bubble unless he flat out runs away. And if you can block that option, you can basically always stay in his donut hole.

 

 

Pretty sure he's not using determination because it's a good EPT, but because it's all he has points for after splitting the list between Chiraneau and Echo.

 

Chiraneau already moves after Dash, so he's quite capable of catching him with or without PTL. Lower PS Decimators do not have this luxury, which is why he went for Chiraneau specifically (also the ability triggering at close range doesn't hurt and is murderous against swarm-caliber ships)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Decimator + PTL + Ysanne + EU is better than determination. Reason being, you boost in the combat phase. So when you move, you either fly past or bump into Dash. After he moves/boosts/barrels, you boost. You can quite easily get into his range 1 bubble unless he flat out runs away. And if you can block that option, you can basically always stay in his donut hole.

 

Pretty sure he's not using determination because it's a good EPT, but because it's all he has points for after splitting the list between Chiraneau and Echo.

 

Chiraneau already moves after Dash, so he's quite capable of catching him with or without PTL. Lower PS Decimators do not have this luxury, which is why he went for Chiraneau specifically (also the ability triggering at close range doesn't hurt and is murderous against swarm-caliber ships)

Certain dash builds, yes. Some people play VI Dash... while it's worse than PTL Dash in pretty much every way, it's better than PTL Dash when your opponent is PS 8. Like Chiraneau and Echo.

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I just finished my 3rd tournament in as many saturdays and have watched Falcons win for the 3rd time. First it was Fat Han,then Fat Han again, and now Chewie/Lando. I have played 5 out of 10 games against named Falcons and i'm really sick of it, if this is all my local meta can  produce then i don't see the point of continuing, i might even quit the game entirely.

 

 

Play the  game like a lot of other people (i'd argue most) and what i feel the game was designed to be.

 

Play it with mates for fun, try scenarios, narrative play and 'sub optimal' but characterful themed games.

 

You might find you'll get the passion back for it when you're playing to tell a story and not to be 'rated'.

 

My old job was a professional tourny organiser for a very big company and just *watching* highly competetive games weekend after weekend dragged a lot of the fun out of that games system as i saw the same 'optimal' army appear in like 50 per cent of the builds.

 

If you didnt take five marines in a razorback with a plasma gun you were handicapping yourself as it was 'points efffective'.    The other 'optimal' build at the time was 60 basic space marines, no 'theme' no colour, just 60 guys with bolters and the 'tactic' was to occupy and contest table area as while you wouldnt kill much of the enemy there was no way they were going to be able to kill all of your men in six turns.

 

It was a valid tactic but 'not really 40k' to me and a bit depressing.

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If my local meta would be that skewed I'd beg, scrounge and scrape until I had lists exclusively designed to destroy my nemesis, at the cost of being crap with everything else.

 

4 GSP's with Intimidation, Proton Rockets and Adrenaline Rush or something. Anything to pound it into the ground until people are bringing other lists and things can be at balance once more. Sometimes you need to go fully dark side if the light is all that's left.

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so has anybody flown "fat Admiral against Fat Han? 

I had plenty of practice games. The crits can accomplish a lot of stuff, but you need something to strip those shield tokens fast. If you leave it at a 1on1, Fat Han is likely to have an advantadge with R2D2, C3PO and evade. If shields are gone, Fat Admiral has an easy time.

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See there's a reason I don't do tournament play it tends to be less about what you like playing and more about what's "best", and if your not playing what you enjoy the game stops being fun.

I used to play 40k I was a space wolf player and I enjoyed sending in my blood claws to tear stuff appart, then sixth ed came out suddenly shooting was the be all and end all and my traditional way of playing for 18 years just didn't work anymore so I had to add more shooting and gradually it became just another gun line army and I hated it.

Turrets are in star wars but they do invalidate arc dodging an element that used to be massively important in this dogfighting game, autothrusters will help alot in getting rid of the falcon heavy meta.

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Well, we just wrapped up a 22-player charity tournament this weekend, which seems to counter the argument in this thread.

 

Top 4 lists (who all played each other in a set of 'championship' rounds):

  • 1st: Airen Cracked with Veteran Instincts, Wedge Antilles, Garven Dreis and Biggs Darklighter
  • 2nd: Dash and 2x Blues
  • 3rd: Han and Wedge (not quite a 'Fat Han' list, but close-ish)
  • 4th: Cmdr Kenkirk and Kath Scarlet

Technically, yes, 3 of the 4 lists brought a turret of some kind.  However, only one was a YT-1300, and it wasn't particularly 'Fat' (IIRC., just had Luke, an Engine Upgrade, and VI).

 

There were a few players running true 'Fat Han' lists that showed up, although none ended up placing in the top 4.

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i want to be clear that i'm not against turrets, i ran 2 Decimators today so i would be quite hypocritical if i said i hate turrets, what i hate are YT-1300 super chargers(+3 hull,+1 Att.)combined with C3PO,R2-D2, and a new guy Lando, omg 3 evade tokens,rly! Add to this a great dial, the superior Rebel crew combo's which seem to all come at low cost in comparison the the Imp crew and you get these **** tanks which just don't go down. 

That must be nice, my lando was being a stingy @#$% only giving me blanks up to a single focus.

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Play with friends. Play for fun.

If you play the tourney scene, understand that people are playing to win.

 

As my dad used to say, "if your arm hurts when you move it like that, don't move it like that."

 

Of course, I'm wagering you already know this and are just looking to vent, understandably so.

 

-Cal

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Well, we just wrapped up a 22-player charity tournament this weekend, which seems to counter the argument in this thread.

 

Top 4 lists (who all played each other in a set of 'championship' rounds):

  • 1st: Airen Cracked with Veteran Instincts, Wedge Antilles, Garven Dreis and Biggs Darklighter
  • 2nd: Dash and 2x Blues
  • 3rd: Han and Wedge (not quite a 'Fat Han' list, but close-ish)
  • 4th: Cmdr Kenkirk and Kath Scarlet
Technically, yes, 3 of the 4 lists brought a turret of some kind.  However, only one was a YT-1300, and it wasn't particularly 'Fat' (IIRC., just had Luke, an Engine Upgrade, and VI).

 

There were a few players running true 'Fat Han' lists that showed up, although none ended up placing in the top 4.

I have to agree with this, comp I was at a few weeks ago and the top 4 was

Shuttle, Fel, Echo

3 Y wings X wing

Fat Han

4. X wings

So there was about 20 people here and there were prizes up for grabs, so why did not most people bring Fat Han, didn't happen. I played against some really random builds that I never see here. In fact the most prevalent build was Shuttle,defender, Phantom/Fel there was 5 versions of this( including me)

All the competitions I have been to recently and I have never played a Falcon, I think we get carried away with what people post on the Internet is what is happening and in reality in the local community it just isn't true.

My next comp is this Saturday and my list choice is two defenders or Keyan and 4 A wings, I am not alone in bringing these kind of builds and as long as other people do the X wing tournament scene is in a healthy place.

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I have to say, this topic is why I hesitate to enter the tournament scene - the thought of travelling and coughing up the entry fee to play four rounds against the same list would be my idea of hell!

I don't think the OP is making a comment on whether or not the overfed Falcons are in any way overpowered, just that the fixation on having a winning list is making the game in his/her area a bit stale.

My advice is along the lines of everyone else - make a hard counter and all the unimaginative gits run something different and interesting next time!

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If everyone is flying Falcons without fail then they're all wearing big red "Hard Counter Me" hats.

Hard counters didn't exist on wave4. And i am not sure they exist now either. Anyways, the Fat Han will get dilluted with the release of new large base turret ships.

 

Not to speak that people seem to ignore the point. The OP is obvious to had played by the end of wave 4 a tournament, you guys should realize that the game on Wave 4 has been very stagnant with very little variance on lists, as much as you like to lie to yourselves.

 

Edited by DreadStar

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