Discussing and improving Purge the Unclean +++SPOILERS AHEAD+++

[Friend of the Dork 15]

Alasseo said:

I believe that road trains are mentioned in the fluff for Ambulon as being a major method of resupply. The term 'train' does not necessarily imply rails, even when you discount the verb 'to train' and look purely at 'train' as a noun. Indeed, the inclusion of the the word 'road' suggests that they don't run on rails. As for imagery of what a 40k Road Train might look like, I have two words for you: Macro Hauler

Nice

[Luthor Harkon 13]

Alasseo said:

 

I believe that road trains are mentioned in the fluff for Ambulon as being a major method of resupply. The term 'train' does not necessarily imply rails, even when you discount the verb 'to train' and look purely at 'train' as a noun. Indeed, the inclusion of the the word 'road' suggests that they don't run on rails. As for imagery of what a 40k Road Train might look like, I have two words for you: Macro Hauler

 

 

 

That is exactly where I got my inspiration from (as well as an article I read about Road Trains in Australia). The Gateway 17 adventure also describes Road Trains coming in on the 150 meters wide Aortas.

 

Regarding RfYAT, I always feared the PCs could take Theodosia down too fast and easy. Fortunately though the hive-born Assassin was not arround as he played the role of a noble (as did the Psyker) and could not easily leave the hive-spire area. My players did not even suspected Orday being assassinated on the meeting (normally they are rather paranoid in this regard).

So, when Orday's head exploded, all PCs (Arbitrator, Guardsman, Tech-Priest) failed their -20 Awareness-test (no surprise at 10-20%) and Theodosia was more or less over the first wall. The Arbitrator 'quick drawed' his Carnodon and sent a burst after him hitting the wall thereby. The Guardman 'quick drawed' his overcharged Fury Laspistol and sent two laser beams in his back side doing no damage thereby. The Tech-Priest pulled out his Steel Burner and shot at him, but was dodged by Theodosia.

Afterwards, only the Arbitrator was lucky enough with his Agility-tests that he could run through the crowds chasing Theodosia. The feral Guardman fumbled around the masses falling to the ground, while the Tech-Priest plundered Orday's corpse (the first thing the Arbitrator player said when I described Oday's head exploding like a ripe fruit was: "Bolt Pistol!", meaning Orday's of course). So, while the Arbitrator was able to chase Theodosia for a few rounds, he was not able to do anything else. Theodosia on the other hand shot full- and semi-auto fire at the pursuer killing bystanders and hitting the Arbitrator thrice (auto-fire) who used (not burned) a fate point and still took 7 wounds in a single round. He broke off the chase in the end.

The only chance he would have had to catch Theodosia (always being 5-15 meters away), was to run (18 meters a round; -20 Agility-test) a further couple of rounds to finally charge an all the time auto-firing Theodosia (moving 15 meters a round).

Harder than I expected.

[macd21 26]

Another issue I have PtU is the Fear tests, though this is really an issue with Fear tests in general. The system as-is doesn't really work very well, but the authors don't seem to have realised the impact a fear test can have on a game. The minimum level of fear (a standard WP check, o mods) will probably have 1/2 - 2/3 of your acolytes fleeing, fainting or soiling themselves, probably picking up quite a few insanity points along the way. It can be quite crippling.

As an example, when my players entered the farcosia lab, one fainted and two ran away (one of those gained enough insanity for a derangement). That left the fourth alone (well, with his unconscious mate) to take the fire of the heretics - he quickly went down...

[Aureus2 0]

Actually, while I was initially concerned by the fear rules, I found that it really hasn't been a big problem for my group.  Fear doesn't generally "auto-incapacitate" my players, it just makes them suck more, and maybe makes one useless for an encounter.  At this point, actually, fear has become a minor inconvenience at most.

[Luthor Harkon 13]

macd21 said:

Another issue I have PtU is the Fear tests, though this is really an issue with Fear tests in general. The system as-is doesn't really work very well, but the authors don't seem to have realised the impact a fear test can have on a game. The minimum level of fear (a standard WP check, o mods) will probably have 1/2 - 2/3 of your acolytes fleeing, fainting or soiling themselves, probably picking up quite a few insanity points along the way. It can be quite crippling.

That is one of the reasons my groups Psyker almost always uses Inspiring Aura before the group enters any presumably dangerous area with weapons drawn. It is arguably one of the most often used psychic powers in my group.

[Friend of the Dork 15]

macd21 said:

Another issue I have PtU is the Fear tests, though this is really an issue with Fear tests in general. The system as-is doesn't really work very well, but the authors don't seem to have realised the impact a fear test can have on a game. The minimum level of fear (a standard WP check, o mods) will probably have 1/2 - 2/3 of your acolytes fleeing, fainting or soiling themselves, probably picking up quite a few insanity points along the way. It can be quite crippling.

As an example, when my players entered the farcosia lab, one fainted and two ran away (one of those gained enough insanity for a derangement). That left the fourth alone (well, with his unconscious mate) to take the fire of the heretics - he quickly went down...

macd21 said:

Another issue I have PtU is the Fear tests, though this is really an issue with Fear tests in general. The system as-is doesn't really work very well, but the authors don't seem to have realised the impact a fear test can have on a game. The minimum level of fear (a standard WP check, o mods) will probably have 1/2 - 2/3 of your acolytes fleeing, fainting or soiling themselves, probably picking up quite a few insanity points along the way. It can be quite crippling.

As an example, when my players entered the farcosia lab, one fainted and two ran away (one of those gained enough insanity for a derangement). That left the fourth alone (well, with his unconscious mate) to take the fire of the heretics - he quickly went down...

 

IIRC the fear test in the drug lab only gave one insanity point for failure, or if it wasn't specified, remember that fear tests out of combat only has minor penalties, you do NOT roll on the shock table in those cases (check out the fear chapter in the book again).

Therefore, there are no really dangerous fear tests in RFYAT, unless the psyker does something stupid...

 

[macd21 26]

Friend of the Dork said:

IIRC the fear test in the drug lab only gave one insanity point for failure, or if it wasn't specified, remember that fear tests out of combat only has minor penalties, you do NOT roll on the shock table in those cases (check out the fear chapter in the book again).

Therefore, there are no really dangerous fear tests in RFYAT, unless the psyker does something stupid...

The insanity point is in addition to any produced by the shock table. As the PCs were in combat (unless they've managed to lure the SQ operatives out of the lab before they enter, that's almost almost guaranteed), so they do roll on the table.

[Friend of the Dork 15]

macd21 said:

Friend of the Dork said:

 

IIRC the fear test in the drug lab only gave one insanity point for failure, or if it wasn't specified, remember that fear tests out of combat only has minor penalties, you do NOT roll on the shock table in those cases (check out the fear chapter in the book again).

Therefore, there are no really dangerous fear tests in RFYAT, unless the psyker does something stupid...

 

 

The insanity point is in addition to any produced by the shock table. As the PCs were in combat (unless they've managed to lure the SQ operatives out of the lab before they enter, that's almost almost guaranteed), so they do roll on the table.

Hmm that's not what I remember but I can't check it atm. In any case, I did not get the impression that the operatives were ready to fight the acolytes as soon as they enter (unless the silent alarm is trigged I suppose) so the acolytes in my game got a good look and even got to talk to one of the SQ operatives, giving doubts that they were intruders at all. So no, no shock table there. I only use the shock table when the acolytes face a horrible creature, fear attack (such as the psyker power), or the terrorflex. In all other circumstances the acolytes can rack up insanity points from seeing horrible things (supernatural or otherwise) but they won't be temporarily insane or fleeing in fear.

[macd21 26]

Friend of the Dork said:

In all other circumstances the acolytes can rack up insanity points from seeing horrible things (supernatural or otherwise) but they won't be temporarily insane or fleeing in fear.

 

In which case, IMO, a fear test should not be called for. A Fear test is one thing, a weird-out test is another. If the book calls for a fear test then it should be assumed that the players may end up running in terror.

IMO, the fear rules as written are poorly designed. The biggest issue is that the tests start at 'Challenging', IIRC, and the system tends towards over the top results when the players fail (you are very unlikely to ever see a PC experience the lower end of the table). The difference between the reaction of someone who succeeds the test and someone who fails is also an issue - the techpriest is as cool as ice, while the veteran guardsman faints? It's all or nothing.

Personally I find the fear system inflexible, inconsistent and highly unrealistic. I'm probably going to have to completely rework it in my game.

[Friend of the Dork 15]

macd21 said:

Friend of the Dork said:

 

In all other circumstances the acolytes can rack up insanity points from seeing horrible things (supernatural or otherwise) but they won't be temporarily insane or fleeing in fear.

 

 

 

In which case, IMO, a fear test should not be called for. A Fear test is one thing, a weird-out test is another. If the book calls for a fear test then it should be assumed that the players may end up running in terror.

IMO, the fear rules as written are poorly designed. The biggest issue is that the tests start at 'Challenging', IIRC, and the system tends towards over the top results when the players fail (you are very unlikely to ever see a PC experience the lower end of the table). The difference between the reaction of someone who succeeds the test and someone who fails is also an issue - the techpriest is as cool as ice, while the veteran guardsman faints? It's all or nothing.

Personally I find the fear system inflexible, inconsistent and highly unrealistic. I'm probably going to have to completely rework it in my game.

Well those are the rules. However, it doesen't make sense that the PCs should flee in terror of the ceiling being too high... Or even seeing their 14th massacre. Get sick. maybe vomit some, definately shaken and scared, but not outright terror. That should be reserved for seeing the horrible daemons and similar terrors.

My only real gripe with the system is that the Jaded quality becomes available way too late, especially for assassins, scum and guardsmen who live by slaughter.