Discussing and improving Purge the Unclean +++SPOILERS AHEAD+++

[egalor 4]

Yesterday I've finished reading PtU. My personal overall assessment of the adventures is - mediocre at best (at least not nearly as good as I expected them to be). I think the majority here would share my view. Although there are weak spots in there (that need improvement), it is my usual personal preference to keep to the plot as it is written - therefore I wouldn't want any heavy editing such as replacing principal factions, adding all-new large episodes or introducing major (sub-)plots.

Here are two most prominent "weak spots", and how I suggest to improve them.

1) The Ambulon part of RFYAT is nothing more than a straightforward railroad. Particularly I refer to the communication with an oracle, where the PCs get suddenly all their questions (and more) answered automatically, without any effort from their part, only to get a fight in the farcosia lab.

The design flaw: after all their trouble at Scintilla, they have the vital information fallen to them virtually from the sky. That is unsatisfying to the players, because there is absolutely no connection between their actions and the result. Not to mention that the "oracles" (even "technical" ones) are simply not too stylish in the W40K as I see it.

Suggestion to improve: First, replace the oracle with some data terminal, hidden somewhere on Ambulon, guarded with some SQ agents. A tech-use test would be needed to extract a portion of the info (for example, the location of the farcosia lab and the purpose of the Emperor's Tarot card). The rest could be tortured / spied / gossiped out from the surroundings with some easy GM's improvisation-on-the-fly. Isn't it a bit better now?

 

2) The climax of Baron Hopes is much less than logical and/or satisfactory. Particularly, I refer to the invulnerability of Assod Morrir and the means to overcome it.

The design flaw: This is an outrage! What kind of daemonic pact / ritual should have been executed to bestow this kind of feat upon a mortal?? Even if it could have been (easily) possible in W40K universe (which is absolutely not the case), this is not good in the game terms, by all means, because it plainly yet artificially cuts off the freedom of action for the PCs. Basically, there should be the chance to kill Assod on his first sight, even very minor one, before he plants the bomb! In this case we are simply risking to lose about 1 hour of gameplay (as the zombies wouldn't arise), only to be replaced with the satisfaction from the players' point of view, as they could see the consequences of their actions.  And secondly - how bullets could be dipped into Baron's blood? No, really?

Suggestions to improve:

A) Allow Assod to be killed on his first sight. For example, Assod could have become liquid metal (like Terminator II); or possessed by the daemon (they become then very difficult to kill - Mr. Eisenhorn would confirm this); or surrounded by a lot of bodyguards emitting some force field around them, which is only vulnerable to the blood of Ulbrexis'; or whatever. Put simply, make it a really difficult challenge, but not impossible.

B) And here is the dramatic way to deliver the killing blow to Assod (as per the scenario). Feeling that the battle is almost lost to the forces of Assod, Ulbrexis asks the PCs to put their guns to his body and shoot at Assod through Ulbrexis' body (thus "dipping" the bullets in his blood). Tragic, heroism and all that stuff

What do you say? Anything to add or comment?

[angryboy2k 0]

Wow, that's a couple of excellent suggestions. I wish you'd posted this BEFORE I played Rejoice for You Are True. Still, I'll be able to revise Baron Hopes with your insight.

From my point of view, the book really fell down because the overarching plot thread isn't very strong. The SQ needs a greater involvement in all three adventures I think, and I'm considering swapping out the Dark Eldar in Shades of Twilight for some human agents as some others on this forum have suggested.

Steve

[LETE 24]

Hiyas:

 

Good thing I've only read Shades of Twilight.  Seems the others aren't quite up to standard.

 

 

Lete

Who?

[Nojo509 3]

I agree with the lack of an overall story arc. They could have been three different heresies involved for all the effect it had on the players.

When I ran the oracle, I made getting an interduction to him more of a roleplaying challenge than the text suggested. When the players got there, the spooky setting and gerneral weridness of the Oracle made it a memorable scene.

The bullets through the barron is inspired. It does take away the execution scene in the epilogue, unless he's just perferatted yet still living.

[aethel 1]

Not going to comment on Rejoice since I rewrote is significantly, and at present the Acolytes are actually running an entire mission in payment to the Oracle for his aide.

egalor said:

2) The climax of Baron Hopes is much less than logical and/or satisfactory. Particularly, I refer to the invulnerability of Assod Morrir and the means to overcome it.

I agree with this statement, though not necessarily your assessment of the design flaw.  To me, the design flaw is not that the dark pact was what it was (immortality), but rather that there is no clear exposition or hint-dropping to the audience (ie the PC's) as to why this pact would cause Ulbrexis's blood to kill him.  When that revelation comes, it makes little sense.  I played PtU as a player before I GM'ed it, so having a purely player's eye view on the matter has been very helpful to me in fine tuning all the adventures.  It wasn't until I read through the scenario in preparation to GM it that I went "aahhh.  Now it makes sense"

I am still thinking about exactly how I want to make it more apparent to the players (without hitting them over the head with it) that immortality pact might make one vulnerable to the first person to kill you.

Or.. I may just do what you are thinking about and rewrite the nature of the pact and/or its weakness entirely.  Still mulling it over.

[RedSkull 84]

Well I still have yet to run Baron hopes so thanks for the heads up 1st off. AS for the idea in how to make it better for the players. We all know that Demons are pretty greedy fickle things. Therefore the Demon just lied about imortality to convince him in the hopes that he would be killed to allow the demon in to the material world.

There that sounds better, on top of that the demon would be attempting to work towards that goal of being released. So that gives you the chance that you need to supply ideas on killing the minion.

The Barons blood could still kill the demon, but have it sort of twisted so that the Players second guess otherwise. Thus forcing a heroic reaction of "shoot thru me" and scene.

[Damek66 0]

Aside from the pretty valid issues you've brough up above, has anyone else had problems with the NPCs?  I'm reading through Baron Hopes now and on page 106 they mention an NPC named Regulator Mallier.  As far as I can tell he's never statted or even given a side bar.  There is however a guy named Captain Movern.  He's got stats and a sidebar description, but I'm not sure I've run across him in the text.  I may have just missed it, or it could be an editing error and Regulator Mallier and Captain Movern could be the same guy.  Any thoughts?

[Damek66 0]

Nevermind.  I found the info I was looking for.

[Friend of the Dork 15]

Interesting. I'm about to run this as well, and we're just about to go to Ambulon in RFWAT. I actually think the Oracle sounded interesting, and we don't have a tech priest or anyone with tech use skill so a mere computer wouldn't work. However, making talking to the Oracle an RP challenge, maybe even with a charm, decieve etc, skill check, seems a better solution.

Still the acolytes have done alot of investigation and socializing to get to this point, and almost gotten killed first by Theo then by the mercs (btw I gave them good quality autoguns with silencers instead of lasguns because lasguns can't be silenced).

 

What I do miss in the Ambulon secion is more info on the SQ operation and Theo: How is the laboratory staffed? How can the operatives smuggle in psykers without attracting suspicion (remember the psykers were held prisoner at the Alabaster Court)? How do they smuggle back the Farcosia and distribute it? Can a lead be followed by the distribution? (there is no info on this in the module at all!). If the PCs wanna ambush Theo, where does he sleep/rest? Where does he travel to and from?

 

As for the Secundus adventure the background as awesome but after skimming through it, it seems like it's just zombie fragging in caves... I would much prefer the acolyte to have to take out and kill the voice of reason as his "heretical" work could upset the balance of power on the world, threatening the nobles' power. The challenge would be less, but sometimes the inquisision stomps on the weak deviants and not just deal with daemon and unspeakable horrors. Thanks for the warnning though.

I thought rejoice was very fun, although not as detailed and open as I'd like. Still there are some exceptionally good scenes involved and an awesome potential atmosphere.

[Magua2 0]

The best part about Forsaken Hopes is the fact that at the end, the inquisitor will command the PCs to execute the Baron regardless. 

As for the rest of the adventure: not really sure I'd categorize it as zombie fragging in caves.  The zombies don't appear until the end, and even then, fragging them is really a pointless exercise.  I imagine that the way I'd run that would be to not even have the PCs roll -- "You cut down the female as she scrabbles at you.  Behind her are three more workers moving towards you.  Oh, you attack them?  Mark off the ammo.  They fall -- behind them, you see four more coming down the tunnel..." etc. 

I am thinking, though, of switching Forsaken Hopes up, so that the mutant leader's life is linked to the Barons -- as long as the Baron lives, he lives.  On the one hand, I think it'd be easier to hint this to the PCs than the "only the Baron's blood can hurt them" business -- on the other hand, I want the players to feel really disgusted when they have to kill the Baron, and if killing him is the only way to stop the zombies, then they won't.

[Aureus2 0]

I pulled the whole Oracle thing entirely, the Acolytes found the lab the old fashioned way, legwork, investiagtion, and some torture.  I also had the whole thing set on Merov, rather than Scintilla, so the wierdness of Ambulon will come later (tonight, in all likelyhood, actually).  I didn't see the PtU thing to be a plot arc unto itself, but a jumping off point, I haven't even run Twilight or Baron Hopes yet, there just hasn't been a place to put them in with all the other plotlines going at the moment.  Heck, the party just dug up a lot of the info that the book wanted to just hand to them by infiltrating and then effectively taking over Prol I (I ran a heavily modified Scrivener's Star sceanario, replace all zombies and disease vectors with assassinations, red-herrings, and intrigue).  From there they were able to trace a bunch of old data requests from certain "person's of interest" that had also been through the Prol network to make a large number of previously unknown connections.

"So our guy had access to Inquisitorial overrides, that are somehow scrambled in the logs to obscure what Inquisitor did it.  He researched the Serrated Query, their "Faceless One" leader, who is apparently also known as the "Nameless One", which somehow ties into the Eldar and the Thousand Suns Legion, and the Horus Heresy.  To top it off, more than 20 years before that, the exact same dude was researching the Alpha Legion and some field reports from 10,000 years ago?  Oh man, this goes even deeper than we thought... and wouldn't he have been 12 at the time of that first override?"

[Alasseo 66]

 To be honest, I had trouble giving the players the info from the Oracle in RFYAT. I ran the entire encounter as something like an ELIZA module- it'll talk for hours, and give you a load of info, but if you can't figure out the right questions, you won't get anything. Conversationally, very little initiative, answer questions exactly, but depends upon the right questions as triggers.
Purely as an interesting aside, I've decided that the information the Oracle has is under some hard-wired limitations thrown in by the AM; in an oddball attempt to enforce neutrality- the Oracle must answer your questions, truthfully, and may not volunteer information in case it develops a bias. As a result, it requires precise questions- vague and leading questions end up with the Oracle clamming up in order to avoid saying too much. Of course, the players didn't realise that, and instead tried hacking it using DOS and vBASIC commands. The players, not their characters. I called shenanigans, on the grounds that a) their characters didn't know how to do that and b) I don't know how to do that.

I must admit I ripped the whole SQ out of it, as I didn't like them, and replaced them with a political cult called the 17th Ascent- no chaos affiliations whatsoever.
As for the lab- my guys never even saw inside the door. I had 4 blokes dressed as lay greeters for the Choir standing outside. The party went to 'stealthily reconnoitre' the place while wearing their heaviest armour and carrying military-grade weaponry. The guards had been shown their faces (taken from the optical logs of the late Theodosia's bionics), and had been briefed/programmed to cut the cult's losses- three of them pulled guns and opened fire, while one went inside and prepped a demo charge. By the time the party fought their way past the other three (for massive collateral damage- got to love FA and suppressing fire with heavy weapons), they were in no shape to fight anyone else, and guard No4 blew up the lab with him inside, and the party were arrested by a platoon of PDF called by the local Magistratum.

 

I have to agree with you on the Baron Hopes module- I haven't run it yet, and I'm not even sure if I will (likewise with Shades on Twilight; I'm simply not sure if it would fit with the theme of the campaign). If I did, I'd have to rewrite the pact slightly, or possibly just have it exactly as written- Morrir is immortal unless slain by the Baron (or his blood- it's a good job my players prefer SP weapons; a party armed purely with las weapons would be screwed), but not invincible, or invulnerable. You could reduce Morrir to very small bloody chunks but he'd still be alive, and would heal/regenerate, given enough time. Say, about the time it takes the PCs to congratulate themselves and start to leave...

[macd21 26]

At first the oracle annoyed me, but I then realised it wasn't that big a deal. The oracle merely represents a source of information of Ambulon. Instead of hand-holding the PCs all the way to the oracle, you could have them make an Inquiry or appropriate Knowledge test to learn that "there is reputed to be a holy oracle of the Adeptus Mechanicus residing in the city. Nothing transpires on Ambulon without his knowledge." Alternatively he could be easily replaced with a local criminal boss, information broker etc.

My problems with Rejoice were the sections before Ambulon.

• It is assumed that the acolytes include a face-man.
• The scenario tries to split the acolytes up.
• The scenario hands them the lead to Ambulon.

First problem - not every group of acolytes is going to have someone with social skills. Very few of the careers have access to social stats and as this is supposed to be an adventure for relatively inexperienced PCs I think many of the challenges are too difficult for them. Even if they are lucky enough to have someone with charm or deceive, that will probably only leave them with a 30 - 40% chance of succeeding most tests. My PCs missed most of the clues that could have been gained through social interaction.

Second: The scenario suggests that the 'noble' character shouldn't accompany the others to the mid-hive. This leaves at least one player sitting on his thumbs for much of the adventure. The scenario suggests that the noble will be able to go places and do things that the others won't, but even when this is true there are other things for them to do.

Third: The PCs can stumble around the alabastar court all they want, the only important thing they really need to do is be present to overhear Theodosia and Shoal arguing, at which point they will hear them mention Ambulon. Not only is this handing them the most important clue, it isn't even all that good a clue. It isn't necessarily clear to the acolytes that it is critical to go to Ambulon next - they may wish to try to find more information in Scintilla first.

My suggestions:

• Reduce the difficulties of all social tests by 1 degree. That will give unskilled players at least a reasonable chance of success, while skilled ones can actually be reasonably sure of making some progress.
• Ignore the suggestion that anyone pretending to be a noble remain behind. That's just bad game design.
• Leave other clues about Ambulon scattered about. They might find records of communications or shipments between the Alabastar Court and the moving city. If they ask a Choir member who Shoal is talking to, maybe they'll shrug and say that he is one of their members from Ambulon. Maybe word on the street is that Farcosia is from Ambulon. If the PCs have figured it out on their own, then the conversation with Shoal isn't as important. You can have them overhear it anyway, but it will merely be confirming what they already know, as opposed to being a scripted handout.

[Aureus2 0]

I would disagree with point 1 above, if you are running an investigation game (and if you run Rejoice! then you are running and investiagtion game) then a party without a socially competant (just Inquiry and any one other social skill is enough to get by if your Fel is 30+) character is like a team of Adepts going into a combat-focused campaign.  Interesting sure, but no one should complain when they all get slaughtered.

My party actually just got the Ambulon lead last session (about 8 or so missions later), as a follow up to their previous investigations, and as an excuse to chase down a lead on another (even more clandestine) investiagtion.  At first they were just going to walk in, track it down, and wipe it out, so they could focus on the main event, but instead...

They show up with an intentionally flawed cover story (they added holes to their cover after they got them from their Inquisitorial contact), and then began working their skills and connections with the Underworld to let it be known that a "free-trader is looking for unique luxury-goods of high value for distribution to new channels on Malfi, particularly of a consumable variety."  Initially the SQ was spooked, because they didn't feel that anyone should know about the location of the facility, but the party thought ahead and planted rumors of similar investigations having been done in other hives (that Farcosia production was occuring on Scintilla *somewhere* was not hard to discover), which kept them from just getting a strike team sent after them.  A carefully controlled meeting was eventually set up by SQ reps, and the agents handled the negotiations and "smuggler" cover beautifully.  They did so well that, in addition to securing a shipment of Farcosia and permission to distribute on Malfi (where the SQ was having trouble getting a foothold, and would value the distraction offered by a 3rd party distributor), they also worked out additional smuggling "jobs" through their route (to pick up and move the psykers that the SQ was dealing with, though this was not explicitly stated).  So, instead of raiding the Ambulon facility, they're going to actually begin doing the smuggling job so they can coordinate a simultaneous multi-system crack-down on the whole operation.

If it works they will do severe damage to the SQ (knocking out an entire R&D and profit division), and gain a great deal of standing within the =][=... and make very dangerous enemies.

[macd21 26]

Aureus said:

I would disagree with point 1 above, if you are running an investigation game (and if you run Rejoice! then you are running and investiagtion game) then a party without a socially competant (just Inquiry and any one other social skill is enough to get by if your Fel is 30+) character is like a team of Adepts going into a combat-focused campaign.  Interesting sure, but no one should complain when they all get slaughtered.

The difference being that a group of PC acolytes is highly unlikely to consist solely of Adepts, while a team without a Scum character is quite common. Scum are the only career with easy access to social skills. IIRC, the earliest any other career can get Charm or Deceive is Rank 2, when the Psyker and the Cleric can pick up Deceive. If your team doesn't include one of the above careers, or they do but the psyker or cleric decided to spend the xp on something else, then the GM has to rewrite the scenario to make it playable.

[Aureus2 0]

I don't really agree, you can get by without the Charm or Decieve skills, if you've got some of the other options instead.  An arbitrator can start with a very solid Inquiry, and can buy Scrutiny right out of the gate, which is just as good if played right.  Scum are awesome socially, clearly.  Assassins can start with Inquiry, and with some creative application of stealth can get some good legwork done themselves.  Anyone with the Noble background is also well suited to a lot of the social needs of investigation, especially in Rejoice.  So there are a lot of ways to build a halfway functional 'face'.

So if the game is going to be investigation oriented, the party really should have someone who can at least "fake it" socially.  Not doing so means that they aren't thinking ahead, or don't actually want to deal with investigation.

[macd21 26]

Aureus said:

I don't really agree, you can get by without the Charm or Decieve skills, if you've got some of the other options instead.  An arbitrator can start with a very solid Inquiry, and can buy Scrutiny right out of the gate, which is just as good if played right.  Scum are awesome socially, clearly.  Assassins can start with Inquiry, and with some creative application of stealth can get some good legwork done themselves.  Anyone with the Noble background is also well suited to a lot of the social needs of investigation, especially in Rejoice.  So there are a lot of ways to build a halfway functional 'face'.

So if the game is going to be investigation oriented, the party really should have someone who can at least "fake it" socially.  Not doing so means that they aren't thinking ahead, or don't actually want to deal with investigation.

Inquiry and Scrutiny won't make up for a lack of Charm or Deceive in Rejoice. They're critical skills. The mission assume that one of your PCs has them - without them the sections "Lady Borella's Soiree" and "The Alabastar Court" become much more difficult.

Dark Heresy is a game in which Investigation is assumed, however Interaction skills are only available to one Career at character creation and are rare in other Careers. Personally I think this is a flaw in the game, but published adventures should take this fact into account. If a published adventure is intended for low-rank acolytes then critical clues or extended scenes should not require skills that the PCs are not likely to have. I'd make the same complaint if an adventure required someone with the Psynscience skill to have any chance of completing.

This isn't a case of acolytes not 'thinking ahead'. I've run DH with two different groups, neither of which included a Scum or a Cleric (both had Psykers, but neither were suitable social characters). More often than not your acolyte team will not include someone well suited to the role of the 'noble' in rejoice. It isn't the fault of the PCs (forcing one of them to play a Scum character from the outset is a symptom of bad game design), there are a number of other careers suited to investigative characters. The fact is that Rejoice is intended for low Rank groups with a character with either Charm or Deceive and a high percentage of low Rank groups will lack such a character.

[Aureus2 0]

Odd, no one in my group had either skill at the time I ran Rejoice and they handled it beautifully.  Not having a Scum or Cleric is not what I meant by "not planning ahead", I felt the the whole point of the 'Noble' scenes were to place the PCs in a 'fish out of water' sort of situation.  Here's how it played out, more or less (it's been a few months):

The party had one previous mission under their belt (Sin, by Aethel), and this was a follow up from leads gained from that mission.

The group was an alchoholic Arbitrator (Inquiry only), a rather disturbing Void-Born psyker, a disassociative Assassin (as in, kinda dangerously Sociopathic), a Redemptionist Cleric (that did not have much in the way of social skills beyond Intimitdate and Interrogate... unless you count 'Cleanse and Purify') and a Noble-born Adept who was the face of the group.  The problem was, the Adept was well known as a loyalist and 'troublemaker' (in that he took down a bunch of other Nobles of the very same hive for tax evasion before he joined the =][=) in the circles that the party traveled in (and actually had 'Vendetta: House Krin') and couldn't show his face without blowing the mission.

So they made the assassin the 'noble', the priest her confessor and entertainer (he could sing), and the Psyker her bodyguard (which was accomplished by putting her in very intimidating armor that covered her features and giving her awesome weapons she didn't know how to use).  The Adept and Arbite were wired into the group via heavily encrypted vox, offering extra insight, pulling up info as they needed it, and coordinating outside resources (the Arbite was ready to bring in the authorities if anything got crazy).  The only thing she had going for her was some basic Fellowship and Jaded, which gave her the ability to look suitably unimpressed and dispassionate about the events at the parties.

The group played to their strengths and adapted to cover their weaknesses.  They didn't charm or con anyone directly, they just leveraged what they had by buying into the 'cult' line enthusiastically, and got their way in with relative ease (and some hijinx).  There were other factors, due to some very creative problem solving on the players part (and having actually killed Theo and gotten the dataslate before the second party), but that's not the point of this thread.

[Friend of the Dork 15]

Ok, I've finished RfYAT now. I agree it has some holes - my group had problems with the Ambulon "clue." They thought it very far-fetched that such a remark should be anything but maybe part og a clue - and after all it would be like some criminal mentioning "New York" in a wire tap regarding say, drugs. I mean, that doesen't really narrow it down any and going to a Hive to search for a single man (Theo) is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. So in order to convince them to go there the Acolytes pretty much had to come up with nothing else at all and also get the information that there was a single chapel of the Choir there, which meant they at least would have SOME place to look.

 

When they got there it was pretty much pure railroading, although I think the Oracle was interesting and fun to roleplay. And when they actually got to the Choir's building they first alerted Theodosia (yes after observing him going in) by (failing to) sneaking around the building. Then they got in and asked after him directly, making up a story about his family being in an accident. No one there knew him by name, except for one of the SQ operatives that was called in, and after leading them away he tried to attack them when the Acolytes became less friendly. It was an intense battle in the corridor, dangerous to the Acolyte and operatives alike, and when Theo himself arrived wielding his twin Power Blades I thought the group was done for. Luckily, the psyker managed to headshot Theo with his Iron Claw combat shotgun, taking him alive!

In the laboratory itself they investigated it, and managed to fool the other operatives there that they were allies of Theo. Then it was mop up, calling in first the Magistratum them then Inquisition. Mission accomplished, and bonus for taking Theodosia alive. Overall a fun game, somewhat heavy on the social, but that's fine by me, and my group has a scum, noble AND an Arbitrator inquire specialist so it fit them perfectly.

 

Fixes that should be made:

1. More clues and background for the party to discover that can lead them to Ambulon - Theodosia is very good at cleaning up any leads at the Alabaster Court, so more leads would be appropriate, for example following the lines of supply ofFarcosia itself (which the adventure says nothing about) - after all if the nobles get hold of Farcosia from somewhere, and could probably tell the Acolytes about it (so that they can get their own supply).

2, Make Ambolon less railroading and more challenge to get to the Oracle. The Strothes contacts are fine, but shouldn't be more than an excuse to go about the place without drawing suspcicion.

 

 

[Luthor Harkon 13]

Friend of the Dork said:

 

Ok, I've finished RfYAT now. I agree it has some holes - my group had problems with the Ambulon "clue." They thought it very far-fetched that such a remark should be anything but maybe part og a clue - and after all it would be like some criminal mentioning "New York" in a wire tap regarding say, drugs. I mean, that doesen't really narrow it down any and going to a Hive to search for a single man (Theo) is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

 

 

Absolutely.

Authors simply have no sense of scale. It really hurts that whole planets are storywise often like villages or towns (like in Star Trek). The drawing of Hive Sibellus in RfYAT is simply ridiculous as is the description. Or the Gorgonid Mine on Sepheris Secundus for example is desribed as being vast and the biggest one on the planet (the major mining planet in the sector), but in Baron Hopes the PCs seem to be able to reach every part by foot and everything is in heraing distance.

 

Friend of the Dork said:

 

1. More clues and background for the party to discover that can lead them to Ambulon - Theodosia is very good at cleaning up any leads at the Alabaster Court, so more leads would be appropriate, for example following the lines of supply ofFarcosia itself (which the adventure says nothing about) - after all if the nobles get hold of Farcosia from somewhere, and could probably tell the Acolytes about it (so that they can get their own supply).

 

 

We are still at the beginning of RfYAT almost half through. We played EoD, Illumination, a home made adventure, MitM and Gateway 17 (from Dark Reign) so far. I put the interior of the Alms House form EoD into a warehouse in Gateway 17 as my players completely bypassed the former. So, the groups Tech-Priest could recover a few encypted data-pads and data-crystals from the Logicians and the Rose Cartell. In my campaign the Rose Cartell is/was a front for the Amaranthine Syndicate and Julius Dean is an Amaranthine Agent (there are no Slaugth yet on the planet though). Julius Dean gets xeno-tech and other xeno-stuff delivered from an Amraranthine Captain (Nathanael Salvus) operating from the Hazeroth Abyss and the Josian Reach.

The data-pads contain among other things this (encrypted) information as well as (encryted) information about a colaboration between Julius Dean (Amaratnthine Agent), Sybas Moran (Logician Crucible Agent) and Theodosia (Serated Querry). They trade xeno-tech (mainly from Julius Dean/Amaranthine Syndicate) for drugs (e.g. farcosia) (mainly from Theodosia/Serated Querry out of Ambulon by Road Train), while the Logicians sometimes work as an intermediary (eking out and/or improving drugs and convert the xeno-tech) between the two.

To cut a long story short: As an acompanying measure I slowly feed information about farcosia and Ambulon to the Tech-Priest as he fights his way through the data encryption. So, when the PCs hear the term Ambulon from Theodosia (and/or his name), they hopefully get the clue and yell Bingo!

[macd21 26]

Authors simply have no sense of scale. It really hurts that whole planets are storywise often like villages or towns (like in Star Trek). The drawing of Hive Sibellus in RfYAT is simply ridiculous as is the description. Or the Gorgonid Mine on Sepheris Secundus for example is desribed as being vast and the biggest one on the planet (the major mining planet in the sector), but in Baron Hopes the PCs seem to be able to reach every part by foot and everything is in heraing distance.

Don't the travel around in a speeder in Baron Hopes?

[Friend of the Dork 15]

Luthor Harkon said:

Friend of the Dork said:

 

Ok, I've finished RfYAT now. I agree it has some holes - my group had problems with the Ambulon "clue." They thought it very far-fetched that such a remark should be anything but maybe part og a clue - and after all it would be like some criminal mentioning "New York" in a wire tap regarding say, drugs. I mean, that doesen't really narrow it down any and going to a Hive to search for a single man (Theo) is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

 

 

Absolutely.

Authors simply have no sense of scale. It really hurts that whole planets are storywise often like villages or towns (like in Star Trek). The drawing of Hive Sibellus in RfYAT is simply ridiculous as is the description. Or the Gorgonid Mine on Sepheris Secundus for example is desribed as being vast and the biggest one on the planet (the major mining planet in the sector), but in Baron Hopes the PCs seem to be able to reach every part by foot and everything is in heraing distance.

 

Friend of the Dork said:

 

1. More clues and background for the party to discover that can lead them to Ambulon - Theodosia is very good at cleaning up any leads at the Alabaster Court, so more leads would be appropriate, for example following the lines of supply ofFarcosia itself (which the adventure says nothing about) - after all if the nobles get hold of Farcosia from somewhere, and could probably tell the Acolytes about it (so that they can get their own supply).

 

 

We are still at the beginning of RfYAT almost half through. We played EoD, Illumination, a home made adventure, MitM and Gateway 17 (from Dark Reign) so far. I put the interior of the Alms House form EoD into a warehouse in Gateway 17 as my players completely bypassed the former. So, the groups Tech-Priest could recover a few encypted data-pads and data-crystals from the Logicians and the Rose Cartell. In my campaign the Rose Cartell is/was a front for the Amaranthine Syndicate and Julius Dean is an Amaranthine Agent (there are no Slaugth yet on the planet though). Julius Dean gets xeno-tech and other xeno-stuff delivered from an Amraranthine Captain (Nathanael Salvus) operating from the Hazeroth Abyss and the Josian Reach.

The data-pads contain among other things this (encrypted) information as well as (encryted) information about a colaboration between Julius Dean (Amaratnthine Agent), Sybas Moran (Logician Crucible Agent) and Theodosia (Serated Querry). They trade xeno-tech (mainly from Julius Dean/Amaranthine Syndicate) for drugs (e.g. farcosia) (mainly from Theodosia/Serated Querry out of Ambulon by Road Train), while the Logicians sometimes work as an intermediary (eking out and/or improving drugs and convert the xeno-tech) between the two.

To cut a long story short: As an acompanying measure I slowly feed information about farcosia and Ambulon to the Tech-Priest as he fights his way through the data encryption. So, when the PCs hear the term Ambulon from Theodosia (and/or his name), they hopefully get the clue and yell Bingo!

Good luck with that, sounds good. BTW what do you mean by Road Train out of Ambulon? The hive is constantly on the move so an actualy train of sorts is useless, so is permanent roads. However, since it is a desert hover cars (trucks?) and 'thopters could work.

 

macd21, I've noticed the same issue, same problem that often arises in Star Wars. A galaxy, or the Imperium is so vast it is incomprehensible to humans, so authors need examples and inspiritation from real life with it's small places on a single planet to envision the story. The Mines of Sepheris Secundus needs to be huge or extremely numerous, although lack of technology would limit their depts pretty much. How exactly are they getting a speeder btw? Haven't read anything about that part yet, not even finsihed reading the previous one although I'm about half way through.

[Alasseo 66]

I believe that road trains are mentioned in the fluff for Ambulon as being a major method of resupply. The term 'train' does not necessarily imply rails, even when you discount the verb 'to train' and look purely at 'train' as a noun. Indeed, the inclusion of the the word 'road' suggests that they don't run on rails. As for imagery of what a 40k Road Train might look like, I have two words for you: Macro Hauler

[macd21 26]

Friend of the Dork said:

macd21, I've noticed the same issue, same problem that often arises in Star Wars. A galaxy, or the Imperium is so vast it is incomprehensible to humans, so authors need examples and inspiritation from real life with it's small places on a single planet to envision the story. The Mines of Sepheris Secundus needs to be huge or extremely numerous, although lack of technology would limit their depts pretty much. How exactly are they getting a speeder btw? Haven't read anything about that part yet, not even finsihed reading the previous one although I'm about half way through.

They get the speeder from the arbitrators. I think it's described as a hovervehicle that can hold up to six.

[Fideru 0]

I've got Purge the Unclean, but it's been essientially untouched because I'm not sure if my GM is running the last of the adventures in it, we've already gone through the first two. With the advice here though, and having the eyes of a player through them, I think I could do some heavy re-writing to make them better. Thanks guys.