Faster Ways to Determine Initiative

[Corradus 68]

So, last night I ran a game session and the PC's were up against a couple of groups of enemies at once.  Four Rival NPC's, One Nemesis NPC (the category name really makes the enemy sound tougher than he was, he was really a glass canon) and two Minion Groups.  I have Six PC's and one Ally who also acts in Combat.

So basically I needed to determine Initiative for 14 parties.  In and of itself that's not too big a deal, you make and sort out the checks, and frankly with a new group like mine who's still sorting out what symbols cancel out what I want them to have all the practice they can get.

Where things slow down to a glacial crawl is when it comes time to line up the Initiative Check scores into an Initiative Order.

Now, ostensibly, you just go by the number of Successes indicated on the dice.  Fair enough.  Except that when you have what amounts to a reasonable recurring number range of between 1 and 5 (with five being pretty rare actually), you tend to get a lot of similar if not identical results.  And the game of course accounts for this by saying when two or more actors tie their Initiative Checks on the Successive level, you move to counting their Advantages to break the tie.  And mechanically it works.

But it's really slow.  First I have to write down what everyone got and make a list.  Then I have to sort that list out according to Successive/Advantageous order and THEN because of the nature of Initiative (ie:  Your order of action isn't strictly determined by your Check score, but rather by group consensus as to who goes when - which, when you have people who are brought up in polite society that says you offer something to someone else before you take it yourself, now I suddenly have 6 Charm School Graduates all deferring and saying "Oh no, you go ahead."  "Oh no, I couldn't possibly" "Oh after you!"  But that part is my row to hoe and I'll sort out) things slow down even further because in essence what the game does is stretch actual Initiative determination across TWO turns rather than one.

I need to make this faster.  It can take up to fifteen minutes right now to determine initiative and that's a long time to keep a group focused while I stare at a column of S's and A's beside people's names.

Any ideas on how I can speed this up?

[kaosoe 7,573]

I've seen the folks at FFG handle initiative as follows:

 

 

Go around the table and ask everyone the results. in an X.Y.Z format where X is the number of successes, Y is the number of advantages, and Z is the number of triumph. For instance if I rolled a success and 2 advantages, my roll would be 1.2, or if I rolled just 4 advantages, it would be 0.4 (in our games, a triumph rarely happens for initiative so we just assume the .0 at the end for no triumphs).

 

The GM writes down each result in where he or she thinks it will eventually end up being. so 5 successes will probably be close to the top, and 0 successes will be near the bottom. You'll want to leave blank lines in between for results that tie with another (and thus determined by advantages). Don't forget to notate PC or NPC in the results.

 

After you are done, you should have all initiatives tracked and in order. With a large number of combatants involved, this method may not be the best, but with some practice, it works well enough. Also, it's a colossal waste of paper, but I don't mind that.

Edited December 7, 2014 by kaosoe

[Corradus 68]

It's gonna take some training to get my players to call out the numbers after most of the other checks what I ask them is a detailed rundown of Successes, but I do like the method and I think it's got potential, thank you

[whafrog 10,384]

Check the resources thread in the main EotE forum, there are some good combat sheets in there.  But all you really need is a space to list all the initiative rolls and who they belong to, and a grid listing PC/NPC slots with rounds.

 

Here's a good tracker I found:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/79wamhxu3oh00tc/Star%20Wars%20Initiative%20Tracker%202013-08-17.pdf?dl=0

 

Here's one I made:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu99rjw4wttxqil/InitiativeDicePoolTracker.pdf?dl=0

 

Maybe they'll help.

[Corradus 68]

I am gonna create a Wingding Font using the Dice and the Symbols on them.  Does anyone know where I can find some decent images of them?

[whafrog 10,384]

Somebody already made a font, check the resources thread.  Or...google:

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/87320-fonts-for-eote-symbols/

[Ghostofman 8,319]

If you have a laptop handy just use the Roll 20 init tracker. If you're will to pay a few bucks you can even use it on  a tablet.

 

[Corradus 68]

Yeah...I was hoping for something with a little less of a learning curve, not to mention that whomever created the initiative tracker in the screenshot seemingly hasn't accounted for the possibility of Triumphs in the Initiative Check.

 

The problem with leaving spaces between NPC and PC Check results is that it really doesn't speed anything up in any appreciable fashion.  I still need to analyze a set of two-column or in some cases three column numbers and put them into order.

 

I'm working on a good old fashioned spread sheet solution but the problem so far is that while spreadsheets love ranking numbers they're not so good with mixes of numbers and letters (ie:  Ron 23, Jack 33) and without the names attached I still have to go through and sort out which number belongs to which name.

This problem isn't going to be sorted out by any special forms or sheets, this is a really clunky way to do Initiative and I might just have to house rule something else altogether.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Corradus

[Corradus 68]

Well, problem solved!  Better living through spreadsheets I always say!  Thanks for your input anyhow folks!

[Ghostofman 8,319]

FYI, the init tracker in roll20 works like this:

Success = 1

Advantage = .1

 

When the players roll, you assign these values to a placeholder token (in this case named PC/NPC turn x) and just put them in numerical order. Triumphs don't need to be tracked because they give a special single bonus and don't generate an ongoing bonus. If you wanted it to count as super iniative though all you'd have to do is give it a value of ten.

 

 

And in case you're just confused, the init tracker is only the thing on the left, the spaceships on the right are a quick n dirty range band tracker.

[kinnison 850]

here is a simple cheapo pen and paper way I do inititive in my game

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/122454-initiative-still-not-sold-on-the-idea/?p=1270179

[player546410 1,130]

I've also found it's easier to roll NPCs after PCs, so I can slot them in directly.  It also lets me write down the PCs scores (which we call out as "# and #") as they're rolled, rather than having to go back around the table.

 

Alternately, if there are a lof of NPCs in a fight and I'm really prepared (which has happened once or twice), I pre-roll the NPC initiatives, so I just have to slot in PC, rather than roll at the same time.

 

Our group also unofficially defaults to the person who rolled the highest initiative if nobody steps up to take the slot quickly.  Of course, we also always end with Doctor > Droid > Droid, so that takes some of the work out as well.

[Desslok 13,571]

Also, it's a colossal waste of paper, but I don't mind that.

 

Get yourself a small dry erase white board! Best non-FFG gaming investment I've made in quite some time. It gets used ALL the time, as both PC and GM!

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

It's Initiative. It's no less clunky than d20 games. And I like the end result so much more. There are many apps that can do what you want. Just google "RPG initiative tracker," or use your digital device's App Store.

For a non-digital solution, I suggest a magnetic dry-erase board.

For a digital solution, use a spreadsheet. Excel, Google Docs, Open Office, whathaveyou. Just line them up as people are suggesting (Success = 1, Advantage = .1), type "PC" or "NPC" next to the result, select it all, and run a Z-A sort on your selected range using the initiative numbers as your base.

[kaosoe 7,573]

 

Also, it's a colossal waste of paper, but I don't mind that.

 

Get yourself a small dry erase white board! Best non-FFG gaming investment I've made in quite some time. It gets used ALL the time, as both PC and GM!

 

White boards are awkward to use when you are left handed.

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

Also, it's a colossal waste of paper, but I don't mind that.

 

Get yourself a small dry erase white board! Best non-FFG gaming investment I've made in quite some time. It gets used ALL the time, as both PC and GM!

White boards are awkward to use when you are left handed.

Ah...that's where the magnets come in Grab some magnetic tape, cut it in 1" pieces, stick white labels on them, and write "PC" and "NPC" on them. Grab another small, button-sized magnet to mark where you are in the initiative order, if you like.

At that point, the dry erase markers are pretty much just for emergency, or if you need to write something down occasionally.

[kaosoe 7,573]

That's a good idea. I'll just have to remember what everyone rolled when initiative is first called out, to build the the list.

 

good call.

Edited January 19, 2015 by kaosoe

[Desslok 13,571]

It's more expensive than a 8 buck magnetic whiteboard - although I suppose you could easily just cobble something together yourself similar to this - and the kickstarter is long past (although I can't imagine that they would say no if you asked if you can buy one), but the Alea Tools RPG Initiative Board is pretty cool.

[kaosoe 7,573]

I do have one of these lying around. I keep forgetting I have it. Note: those hands are not mine. That was just the first pic I found on the Internet. I actually have talons for hands. It's weird.

[Desslok 13,571]

Better than flippers for hands. Do you know how hard it is to type?

[bsmith23 696]

For pcs i have them tell me their init as a whole number and decimal. 3s iccesses 2 advantages is 3.2 for example. Triumphs are a free move or action before everyone. For npcs i roll theirs during game prep and make a note of it. My players have not had a problem with this YMMV.

My initiative sheet is a 5x7 notepad. Pcs listed down the left with npcs under them and a line next to each to record results. On the right is a column of lines for the combat encounter. I mark each line with a P or N depending on who won the slot. During combat i just put a dot next ro who is going and which slot is up. Its primitive but it works well for me in this system.

[Madeiner 18]

I'm having this problem as well.

 

I'm considering switching to a d10 or d20 initiative system.

Say, your initiative (like d&d) is d10 or d20 roll + your agility + cool/vigilance.

Add that up, order by highest value.

 

Way simpler and faster.

[player546410 1,130]

Beside having to dig out another die - I don't think it'll prove to be all that much faster.  You're still slotting everyone.

 

Edit:

However, when the order of battle doesn't really matter, I've occasionally waved Initiative and just let the all the PCs go first, then all of the NPCs.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Quicksilver

[agentc13 36]

My group uses popcorn initiative. It's pretty easy to use.

 

Highest roll goes first and pass from there, just need to have a way to track who has acted that round and who hasn't.

 

 PCs (which I am in this game) need to think about the fact if they bundle all together and have the NPCs go last, then the NPCs can effectively get 2 turns in a row without PC actions.  

[Amanal 2,557]

Pre-roll while you are working out the encounter, you just have PC/NPC slots, no player owns their slot after all.

 

Add that to the white board idea and you are all good.