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EchPiEl

"Do not Count"

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Ok, I have an interesting question about a new game therm that is been used in many cards, but is not correctly game defined in any rules document.

What exactly, in game definition, "Do not count" means?

Is it that for any effect (game or card), a character that is "not counting" value X, X is an undefined value and should be treated as 0?

Or is it any other case? (please elaborate on it)

If you want a specific, game occurring, question, here you have it:

Is Cthulhu with a Tear Gas attached inmediately destroyed if affected by Fugitive Scientist's ability?

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I'm not 100% sure on the specifics of your question, but my answer would be "Do not count" (like in Fugitive Scientist) simply means that during any calculation phase involving the value (skill in this case) the targeted card just doesn't get computed.  It does not reduce the skill of the card, simply ignores it during summation.

 

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I've answered the same in the french forum :

It doesn't means that your character have less skill. It only means that during the struggle, your total skill is lowered during comparition.

The only moment which allow you to "Count" the skill or icons is during struggles.

So, If you asked about Cthulhu being powdered with Gas, I'd rather say that it should'nt work being used with the scientist. By the way, I've checked the FAQ for the word "Count" and it introduce notion of skill comparition, with the article that specify the skill of the Young Deep One. Don't know if it can help !

 

But I totally agree with the fact that we need a new entry to the FAQ...

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I understand what you are explaining, and it's centainly the way I would rule it, but the problem persists. In normal English meaning, "do not count" means not counting it for anything, because it doesn't says "do not count for icon struggles or for skill compare".

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I disagree with your parsing of the English.  To me "do not count" simply means "ignore this value for any calcuations", which is very different than "treat this value as zero".

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The problem still exists, because I can't ignore the character's skill when counting it for Tear Gas, because if it's zero then the character would be destroyed.

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To clarify, I can't tell you if it's zero or not because a card effect is forbidding me doing so, and you can't tell me if it's zero or not because a card effect is forbidding you doing so, and I won't go on with the game if you shouldn't have a character because it's skill is zero, and that's something I can't check, so in essence, our game is paralyzed by the needing of a rule.

 

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I think you can evaluate the skill value - that doesn't involve "counting it".  You just don't include it in determining success at a story.  For things like Tear Gas, there is no counting, simply a comparison to see if the value is equal to zero or not.

Could this simply be a language issue?  As a native English speaker, this seems very clear to me.

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Tear Gas causes Cthulhu's skill to be ignored, not reduced, by Fugitive Scientist.  Cthulhu himself still has 8 skill and isn't affected by Tear Gas.

 

This actually is covered in the FAQ -- 

(2.30) Counting Skill

Some effects reference counting skill or not counting skill. These effects do not change the actual numbers on the card. They only mean that the skill is counted or not counted during the skill comparison at the story.

 

Note that if Cthulhu was up against Hand of Aforgomon, then Tear Gas would certainly work!

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