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Robin Graves

OT: Ep VII That darn lighstaber.

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I don't really have a problem with the cross guard/mini sabers off the sides thing. In fact I think it is different and kinda cool. What bugs me, a lot actually, is the weird fireish lightsaber effect. It's a lightsaber, not a fire sword. The lightsaber effect has been well established and loved the world over. Why are you reinventing an awesome wheel?

This.

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... a hilt that won't kill you or cut your hands off...

There are a number of reasons why the lightsaber is a bit silly, but this actually isn't one of them. One almost never comes into contact with the cross guard when using a sword. Unless something goes horribly wrong it stays between you and your opponent along with the blade. Also note that our Sith has an appropriately low grip on the hilt, so he's actually perfectly safe.

 

Using a sword like that without a shield, you almost always use it with the second hand, and often manipulate the weapon using the hilt for leverage. It's bad enough that there wouldn't be any way for him to grip the blade midway down the length, but not having access to the hilts either makes it even worse.

 

Besides, the crossguard blades aren't even flush with the main blade, meaning a lightsaber that slides along the blade and would threaten the hilt will simply cut through the crossguard projectors. Given that, what's the point of those hilt blades? Does he punch with them or something?

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Besides, the crossguard blades aren't even flush with the main blade, meaning a lightsaber that slides along the blade and would threaten the hilt will simply cut through the crossguard projectors. Given that, what's the point of those hilt blades? Does he punch with them or something?

This was my first thoughts about it.

Re: new saber effect. That don't bother me so much.

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... a hilt that won't kill you or cut your hands off...

There are a number of reasons why the lightsaber is a bit silly, but this actually isn't one of them. One almost never comes into contact with the cross guard when using a sword. Unless something goes horribly wrong it stays between you and your opponent along with the blade. Also note that our Sith has an appropriately low grip on the hilt, so he's actually perfectly safe.

 

Using a sword like that without a shield, you almost always use it with the second hand, and often manipulate the weapon using the hilt for leverage. It's bad enough that there wouldn't be any way for him to grip the blade midway down the length, but not having access to the hilts either makes it even worse.

 

Besides, the crossguard blades aren't even flush with the main blade, meaning a lightsaber that slides along the blade and would threaten the hilt will simply cut through the crossguard projectors. Given that, what's the point of those hilt blades? Does he punch with them or something?

 

He still has perfect access to the grip: it's obviously long enough to be a two-hander, same as any lightsaber. He just can't touch the cross guard, which is fine. He just won't. Half-swording is a bit of a non-issue; no lightsaber has ever been capable of that (though you'd think it would be possible for a Jedi/Sith to use the Force to protect his/her hand for the second or two it would take to apply some leverage and swipe the opponent's face with the pommel or tip. *shrug*).

 

I do agree on the emitters, though. They really should be flush with the blade, but they could be made of a lightsaber-resistant material, which has existed in-universe before. We'll see when the movie comes out, I suppose.

 

EDIT: Turns out was the one getting the terminologies mixed up a little bit... >.<

Edited by DR4CO

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Of course, half-swording has no use with a weapon that is as light as air and requires no momentum or force to slice things. Half-swording is used mainly for leverage in either piercing strikes or to topple your opponent when engaged in a bind. Neither of those is really applicable in a lightsaber fight.

 

That said, quillons are supremely important in a sword fight - doubly so in a lightsaber fight, I would imagine! If only the little projectors on the side were lightsaber proof...

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Um, as much as I hate to admit it I am a bit of a sword nerd (enough so that hearing it described as a "broadsword" made me wince) and I have to say that particular crossguard is no more danger to the wielder than the blade. If he is using it in the traditional German longsword blossfechten style, the only changes he would need to make are to hold the pflug guard slightly further foward than normal, and avoid a couple of the schwert-am-ringen techniques that grip the blade or cross. None of the Meisterhau have you contacting the cross, not even a zwerchau starting from a low guard (it looks like you might, but if you try it you'll see you don't).

As far as half-swording goes, that is primarily a harnissfechten technique, and I've never seem Jedi fight in armour. There are ringen-am-schwert techniques that grip the blade too, but there are alternatives and it's not like Jedi grapple a lot.

Also, there are several techniques (aside from mortschlag, which requires gripping the blade) which use the tips of the cross as a weapon- Liectenauer said there were four points on a longsword you can use to wound your opponent (end of the blade, tips of the crossguard, base of the pommel).

....and I feel even more nerdy than ever, so I think I'll stop there :s

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(enough so that hearing it described as a "broadsword" made me wince)

Haha, you, too? I feel the same way when some tiny arming sword is labelled a "longsword" in movies or video games...

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Um, as much as I hate to admit it I am a bit of a sword nerd (enough so that hearing it described as a "broadsword" made me wince) and I have to say that particular crossguard is no more danger to the wielder than the blade. If he is using it in the traditional German longsword blossfechten style, the only changes he would need to make are to hold the pflug guard slightly further foward than normal, and avoid a couple of the schwert-am-ringen techniques that grip the blade or cross. None of the Meisterhau have you contacting the cross, not even a zwerchau starting from a low guard (it looks like you might, but if you try it you'll see you don't).

As far as half-swording goes, that is primarily a harnissfechten technique, and I've never seem Jedi fight in armour. There are ringen-am-schwert techniques that grip the blade too, but there are alternatives and it's not like Jedi grapple a lot.

Also, there are several techniques (aside from mortschlag, which requires gripping the blade) which use the tips of the cross as a weapon- Liectenauer said there were four points on a longsword you can use to wound your opponent (end of the blade, tips of the crossguard, base of the pommel).

....and I feel even more nerdy than ever, so I think I'll stop there :s

 

Mortshlag (murderstrike) ... man, thats an awesome word. If i ever get a sword i'll name it that.

Edited by Robin Graves

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Check out 'Weapons that made britain' on youtube he does a bit about the development of each and tries to teach people how to use them as well. Interesting for history nerds and for legit ideas for using diff types of lightsaber based weapons. Imagine wrist or punching sabers or maces or...

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I dont really like the design of the lightsaber. I think it would be cool if it just had a metal hilt (and if needed in the film, show that metal can block lightsaber blades).

To me the good thing about this lightsaber is that it means we will see a more medieval style of swordfight and people will stop using lightsabers like katanas. Yes, medieval swordfighting is not as cool and choreographic as what we are used to, but it is much more dramatic. I want weight in those lightsabers. I want that every blow counts. Enough of this:
l50sp.gif

Edited by melminiatures

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Yes, medieval swordfighting is not as cool and choreographic as what we are used to, but it is much more dramatic. I want weight in those lightsabers. I want that every blow counts. Enough of this:

 

Abso-frickin'-lutely.

 

The lightsabre battles in the prequel trilogy were cool at first glance (apart from that ridiculous pinball-Yoda), but watch them more than once and BAH GAWD they're so corny it's untrue - more like choreographed dance routines than life or death hand-to-hand combat.

 

Give me the OT lightsabre battles any day - they just looked and felt more "real".  The battles between Luke and Vader were brutal.  If this new design means we see less backflips, pirouettes and sabre spinning and more furious hammering down of rage-filled blows, then I'm all for it.

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They're choreographed-looking because Jedi can predict what their foe is going to do. In the case of Anakin and Obi-Wan...

l50sp.gif

This is actually one of my favorite shots in Episode III. Why is it, though?

Because they're, at this point, doing the exact same thing. I loved it, because you could so clearly, in just a moment, see the whole master / apprentice dynamic, in a few swooshy things.

And I'm also going to say that the form of the lightsaber fights was better than the Original Trilogy. The fight between Vader and Obi-Wan? Eugh. Both Luke / Vader fights were good but neither felt very... Refined? Trained? Which is exactly what Jedi are. In the case of Luke and Vader, that makes sense to me, as Vader had to change his style and how he approached fights, as to where Luke... Really didn't have proper lightsaber training.

But The Prequel Era was the era of The Jedi. Where we would see Jedi at their peak.

So we would of course see their forms at their best. They are overzealous and a little too fancy, but people harp on about that all too often. Lightsaber fights should be flashy and overzealous. Why?

They're attacking each other with god damned beam swords.

 

 

Also!
 

...and people will stop using lightsabers like katanas.

 

...Have you ever actually seen a Katana used? Kendo is incredibly rigid. Calculated. Refined. I'm not going to rave about the Katana, or how great it is because it's actually not amazing- however the style behind it is elegant in a martial way, in that it looks like every single movement is done out of practicality and necessity, getting the most out of each swing.

Also Katanas are **** near strictly slicing weapons, rarely being used for stabbing, almost always two handed- to get the most out of each slice, and so on.

So if anything?

You should want them to be used like Katanas.

Edited by Captain Lackwit

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People mention that the saber has no weight. I get that, but do keep in mind that even though the blade itself is technically weightless, there is still some force behind it when you block it with your blade. If your sabers are locked, you'll feel how hard the other person is pushing back. In a sense, that is weight.

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1495408_367427600083966_1255916670266409

 

Strawman.  No one is saying a hilt guard is dumb.  People are saying this particular hilt guard is dumb because it can't do what it was meant to do: catch a lightsaber.  This post explains it pretty well:

http://www.theverge.com/tldr/2014/11/28/7303233/please-hire-me-jj

Edited by TurtleFreak

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They're choreographed-looking because Jedi can predict what their foe is going to do. In the case of Anakin and Obi-Wan...

l50sp.gif

This is actually one of my favorite shots in Episode III. Why is it, though?

Because they're, at this point, doing the exact same thing. I loved it, because you could so clearly, in just a moment, see the whole master / apprentice dynamic, in a few swooshy things.

And I'm also going to say that the form of the lightsaber fights was better than the Original Trilogy. The fight between Vader and Obi-Wan? Eugh. Both Luke / Vader fights were good but neither felt very... Refined? Trained? Which is exactly what Jedi are. In the case of Luke and Vader, that makes sense to me, as Vader had to change his style and how he approached fights, as to where Luke... Really didn't have proper lightsaber training.

But The Prequel Era was the era of The Jedi. Where we would see Jedi at their peak.

So we would of course see their forms at their best. They are overzealous and a little too fancy, but people harp on about that all too often. Lightsaber fights should be flashy and overzealous. Why?

They're attacking each other with god damned beam swords.

 

 

Also!

 

...and people will stop using lightsabers like katanas.

 

...Have you ever actually seen a Katana used? Kendo is incredibly rigid. Calculated. Refined. I'm not going to rave about the Katana, or how great it is because it's actually not amazing- however the style behind it is elegant in a martial way, in that it looks like every single movement is done out of practicality and necessity, getting the most out of each swing.

Also Katanas are **** near strictly slicing weapons, rarely being used for stabbing, almost always two handed- to get the most out of each slice, and so on.

So if anything?

You should want them to be used like Katanas.

this was probably the best defense of anything in the prequels i've ever seen.

 

well done.

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