A-Wing Fix

[z0m4d 727]

1. Quit complaining

Build a strong alpha-strike squad with Proton Rockets

Build a cheap squad of flankers using Chardaan Refit

Build some cheap blockers using Prototype Pilots with Chardaan Refit

Build a squad of aces using A-Wing Test Pilot and other upgrades

Use some combination of the above and other ships

If steps 2-6 don't work, stop playing with them

See step 1

Edited November 29, 2014 by z0m4d

[X Wing Nut 2,309]

I like step 8

[Rividius 583]

1. Build some cheap blockers using Chardaan Refit and Enhanced Scopes

 

My A Wings don't have system slots.

[z0m4d 727]

 

1. Build some cheap blockers using Chardaan Refit and Enhanced Scopes

 

My A Wings don't have system slots.

 

 

Good catch.

[LordVogl 152]

 

1. Build some cheap blockers using Chardaan Refit and Enhanced Scopes

 

My A Wings don't have system slots.

 

 

But if they did, they would be fixed!

[z0m4d 727]

 

 

1. Build some cheap blockers using Chardaan Refit and Enhanced Scopes

 

My A Wings don't have system slots.

 

 

But if they did, they would be fixed!

 

 

Why does it need a Systems Slot?

[catachanninja 4,131]

 

 

 

1. Build some cheap blockers using Chardaan Refit and Enhanced Scopes

 

My A Wings don't have system slots.

 

 

But if they did, they would be fixed!

 

 

Why does it need a Systems Slot?

 

The increased damage output from fire control systems or increased flexibility from advanced sensors would make up for the expense on a 2 attack ship. Accuracy corrector would be a problem though

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

They wouldn't be fixed with System Slots, more like absolutely broken when accuracy corrector hits

 

Well, maybe not broken overall when things like Han and Dash are afoot, but you'd never never use another upgrade on them nor would you bother with focus and target-locks. Just ship around boosting and dodging and enjoying auto-2 damage every turn.

A-wings are...fine, I guess. I don't enjoy 2 attack ships that don't cost 12 points (or aren't awesome character Ties), but they have their place and there are some strong contenders (Predator Gemmer and Jake in general).

 

Only problem is, like most of the Y and B stuff, their initial expansion is just outdated. Tycho should be hilarious, but he never does enough to make his points back and Arvel...where the hell is his natural EPT slot!?

Edited November 29, 2014 by ficklegreendice

[z0m4d 727]

You guys are ridiculous.  You make it sound like that 1 attack die is the only thing that matters.

Edited November 29, 2014 by z0m4d

[Duraham 750]

You guys are ridiculous.  You make it sound like 1 attack die is the only thing that matters.

yeah, and the main strategies for using the Awing tend to be either carry a missile (which gives it more attack dice) or bring it into range 1 of the enemy (which gives it more attack dice) or put outmaneuver on it (......which gives the enemy less defense dice, which incidentally is comparable to giving you more attack dice)

geee i dunno, is that 1 attack dice so important that all main successful Awing strategies circle around giving it more attack dice?

[z0m4d 727]

 

You guys are ridiculous.  You make it sound like 1 attack die is the only thing that matters.

yeah, and the main strategies for using the Awing tend to be either carry a missile (which gives it more attack dice) or bring it into range 1 of the enemy (which gives it more attack dice) or put outmaneuver on it (......which gives the enemy less defense dice, which incidentally is comparable to giving you more attack dice)

geee i dunno, is that 1 attack dice so important that all main successful Awing strategies circle around giving it more attack dice?

 

 

Those are fine tactics, but you can also block with Prototypes and outflank.  Either way, 2 natural dice isn't enough for them.  They feel because it's "only" 2 that it's somehow broken.

Edited November 29, 2014 by z0m4d

[Rividius 583]

You guys are ridiculous.  You make it sound like that 1 attack die is the only thing that matters.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that 1 attack dice has huge implications.

Millennium Falcon with C3P0 ignores 2 points of damage. Interceptor or A-Wing will ignore 2 points of damage once Autothrusters hit. Lando can ignore 2 points of damage.

If enemy ships ignore max damage, 2 dice ships only work when you can have a lot of them. This is why TIE's and Z95's work.

Notice the expensive TIE's that do work are those that increase damage dice (Mauler and Backstabber) or maximize the damage of your cheap 2 dice ships.

The A-Wing is not a terrible ship. That title belongs to the Advanced. But it does not fill a role that other ships don't fill better.

That's the issue. That's always been the issue. And your antagonistic posts towards anyone that brings it up only shows you don't really understand the game.

[KommanderKeldoth 2,600]

Alright, let's just calm down here

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

In this mostly all-or-nothing game (Barring crits), every single potential damage matters. Lacking damage dice means less chance of getting through greens and of killing opposing ships, giving them more chances to kill your squad.

 

A Tie Fighter down to 1 hull is still a tie fighter, no matter how shiny those card backs may appear. It's even more extraordinarily painful in the case of large ships. I had Jake chasing down Dash over the course of four rounds or something because that's 10 total health to go through and the prot rocket only busted the shields. That's four rounds of Dash murdering the rest of his squad, which could probably have been cut in half with an additional die of damage per shot punching through 2 greens + focus.

 

Not to say 2 dice ships are useless, since Zs and Ties bring enough rolls to compensate for the lesser amount (worse against higher agility targets, but there you go). Quantity has a quality all it's own etc.

 

I do enjoy Jake (and respect my opponent's predator Gemmer), but the 2-attack dice is a flaw significant enough to be worth one's notice. Fortunately, the A-wing has a dial, 3 agility, and a decent enough price to compensate for the most part. Damage-wise, though, they are never the most efficient option (bandits being 3 points cheaper than proto-types and all)

Edited November 29, 2014 by ficklegreendice

[Mikael Hasselstein 6,896]

The A-Wing just got fixed with Rebel Aces.

 

What's all this whining about two attack dice? Do none of you play Imperial, where 2 attack dice is the norm?

[ficklegreendice 34,359]

More than likely because their role is mis-understood or because turreted fatties over-shadow them.

 

A-wings are flighty little buggers that are incredibly hard to kill for their cost, strengths for which they pay in damage reduction.

 

With turreted ships gaining such traction thanks to the rule being, imo, kind of stupid and Wave 5 launching 2 more of them, it's easy to see why the A-wing's strengths are not very appealing and its lack of damage for cost, especially versus the fat bastards of X-wing, becomes all the more noticeable.

[Mikael Hasselstein 6,896]

Oh, so it's about having to go up against turrets.

Like the Imperials have also been doing - with two dice - ever since Wave 2.

[iPeregrine 685]

What's all this whining about two attack dice? Do none of you play Imperial, where 2 attack dice is the norm?

It's the combination of two dice and a high point cost (if you take more than a naked prototype). Ships with two attack dice can work just fine, as long as the ship is cheap enough to overcome the poor quality with quantity. The a-wing can't do that once you start adding upgrades.

And I don't know where the "imperials have two attack dice" idea comes from. There are more rebel ships with two attack dice, and the imperial equivalent to the a-wing has three.

[z0m4d 727]

Granted, you can get expensive on an A-Wing to make him a more capable flanker and/or deal more damage. That's where their strength lies: you can't kill what you can't hit. Auto-thrusters will make them more dodgy. A-Wings, with 2 hull and 2 shields are also a little more forgiving than Interceptors.

Btw there's nothing wrong with winning a match by 12 points. That's still an unmodified win.

[TheRealStarkiller 3,446]

If I were a rebel player I'd love A-Wings.

They are fixed.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

2 dice on a cheap fighter is fine because your bringing multiples, when your fighter is 20+ points it's not really delivering the right bang for its buck.

A wings are not heavy hitters.

[TheRealStarkiller 3,446]

I had a hard time against a couple of those:

 

Green 19

refit -2

Outmaneuver 3

=20

 

Awesome flankers.

[Kingsguard 343]

2 dice does seem to be a hinderance but A-Wings can fix it by getting in close, or by bringing a rocket, or by using those nice elite pilot abilities that I don't have.

I'm a new player but in the few games I've played, A-Wings have always done impressively well. They may look aggressive but their strengths seem to be in their survivability. 2 hull, 2 shields and 3 agility can go pretty far. And they're fast and can get where they need to be quicker than anyone else.. And with a little luck your A-Wings will be pew, pewing an enemy ship long after a Z-95 would have been shot down.

You can equip your A-Wings with Proton Rockets and wreak serious havok on the enemy squad in the initial turns of combat and then spend the rest relying on their survivability while you clean up the remainder of the weakened enemy with your 2 dice

[AlexW 2,902]

If I were a rebel player I'd love A-Wings.

They are fixed.

I hope you are right, but I fear that the OPs option #7 is where we'll see A-wings best used in competitive play.

Granted, you can get expensive on an A-Wing to make him a more capable flanker and/or deal more damage. That's where their strength lies: you can't kill what you can't hit. Auto-thrusters will make them more dodgy. A-Wings, with 2 hull and 2 shields are also a little more forgiving than Interceptors.

Btw there's nothing wrong with winning a match by 12 points. That's still an unmodified win.

It's worth expanding the above discussion point a bit since you bring up interceptors and the ships share quite a bit in common, especially in terms of roles in a squad. A-wings have always been more resilient and cheaper than interceptors. However, the interceptor has seen significantly more in competitive play than the A-wing. A-wings even have the option to TL+focus where interceptors have another movement option instead, but do we really think that the interceptor has seen more play because it can BR?

It's true that it's not just the two attack dice, it's the cost associated with those two dice when there are cheaper options. If you can buy two attacks in bulk, those ships are able to support each other by stripping tokens, using one to block while the other shoots, etc.. I do wonder if we would see more of them if the refit hadn't taken away an option for missiles , or if the Z-95 hadn't been an option before the refit.

Even the designers discuss the massive difference between one attack die in their recent interview with The S+V podcast. And, it's notable that the difference is increasing slightly with each release that makes red dice more important. An A-wing already struggled to hurt a falcon with 3PO and MFT, but the emergence of R2 makes it impossible even at R1 unless you have outmaneuver, a cloaked phantom isn't really worried about two dice, HLC outriders and Falcons with Jan will be able to one shot A-wings, and while Autothrusters will help, being resilient isn't the problem the A-wing had and both Interceptors and Starvipers will be able to make better use of them since at R3 they have three red dice.

Please understand this is just my analysis and it's not a complaint, since it's hard to predict where the meta will go when the refit was designed. I play a 39 point Vader and was looking forward to rebel aces for the refit and test pilot to go back to playing A-wings. I still have some lists I'm going to play with them, but I have no illusions that I'll struggle against more effective lists run by halfway decent players.

[Kingsguard 343]

I think FFG is going in the right direction with Proton Rockets. If the A-wing's strengths are that it can use missiles then that should really BE a strength. Chardaan refit adds some nice flexibility but I think it's going in the wrong direction. We need missiles that really make it worth it. I like where FFG was going with proton rockets in that they are playing off the A-Wing's strengths and at the same time, limited to the A-Wing with the "maneuverability is good" theme that makes them great for A-Wings and Tie Advanced but less useful for all else (except tie defenders I suppose).

If A-Wings aren't good enough yet, lets keep going in that direction.

Another element that A-Wings have that hasn't seen representation in the FFG mechanics is the fact that the A-Wing's cannons swivel. Mark II A-Wings had laser cannons that could swivel a full 360 degrees. Having the ability to shoot behind them Firespray style or a wider front firing arc would make them more interesting I bet.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Kingsguard