Teaching Old Pilots New Tricks: Keeping The Game Interesting

[SpikeSpiegel 2,077]

I was thinking about new ways to keep X-Wing interesting without having to go into more obscure EU, going into the PT or developing completely new ships. As we've seen the return of Kath and Boba in a new faction...

What if we have the same named pilots with different abilities and possibly different ships while remaining in the same faction?

Some examples would be Luke in an E-Wing with a different ability, same for Corran in an X-Wing, Han in a Z, Soontir in a Defender (he flew defenders, right?). And we can even have Luke in an X-Wing still, but with a different ability.

This does two things:

-New content for new strategies within each faction.yay, repaints!

-The special character rule will limit list building, making players choose which version of that pilot they want to take.

So if we get a cool new Luke in an E-Wing, you can't run old Luke in an X-Wing. Cool new Soontir in a Defender that everyone wants to fly? Can't take triple-action Interceptor Soontir in the same list.

Of course, in order for this to be successful, the new abilities for the pilots must be as close to equal value of their older versions so that people wouldn't simply insta-go to option A over the new content. The exception to an ability nerf would be putting the pilot in a newer, better ship with better stats (Luke in an E, Defender Soontir), but even then, development will have to be careful from nerfing their abilities too much.

[jimmius 1,785]

This is one of my favorite ideas for increasing the depth of the game. Rather than dredge up some EU pilot nobody cares about, and make him so good he obsoletes pilots we know and love, why not stick the pilots we love into more ships?

 

My personal example would be Keyan in a Y-wing, as he is the sole survivor of Gold Squadron at the battle. And his ability is such that it works really well in a Y-wing (or any ship with a traditionally 'limiting' dial).

[Keffisch 2,642]

Marek in a Defender, Hellooooooooo baby!

[Gadge 4,294]

Likewise.

 

i'd like to see Luke have an ewing option (even though im not a fan of the ewing... it makes sense, just like giving tycho or corrran and xwing.)

 

Keep the ability, just change the ship, opens up new posibilities.

 

I understand you'd hav too many variables to have seperate ship and pilot cards as we discussed that to death but having 'secondary roles/ships' for characters would be great.

 

 

We already have the option of having Han or Luke as pilots or crew.

 

I'd love to see an option for say 'howlrunner' being able to fly an interceptor.

 

Mythos wise you're an 'ace' if you survive about three engagements in a TIE... having your best pilot in your worst ship is bonkers.

 

I think certain characters should be in 'classes' of pilot like 'fighter pilots', 'bomber pilots', 'large ship pilots' possibly and have ship cards for several options.

 

Could be cool to buy a 'howlrunner' expansion pack that came with a repaint interceptor (or defender, or phantom) and crew cards for her to be in three different ships.

 

Ditto a 'Luke Skywalker' expansion...  you get a repaint ewing and cards for him as pilot of three ships plus exisiting crew cards etc.

[IvlerIin 573]

Seems like a fun exercise. Here's some alternates for Porkins, Tycho, and Corran.

 

Corran Horn: (X-Wing)

Pilot Skill: 8

Upgrades: Astromech, Torpedo, Modification

Ability: "When Attacking you may Spend your Target Lock to increase your Primary Attack Value by 2. Then receive 1 Stress."

Cost: 27-30

Notes: Does Not have EPT naturally available.

 

Tycho Celchu: (X-Wing)

Pilot Skill: 8

Upgrades: EPT, Astromech, Torpedo, Modification

Ability: "You may maintain and acquire 1 additional Target Lock. Friendly ships may spend your Target Lock as their own."

Cost: 26-27

Notes: R5-K6 on Tycho would proc even if a Friendly ship spent one of his TL's; R5-K6's secondary effect would also affect the friendly attacker.

 

Jek Porkins: (Y-Wing)

Pilot Skill: 7

Upgrades: EPT, Astromech, Torpedo (x2), Turret, Modification

Ability: "After Performing a Green Maneuver you may flip 1 Face up 'Ship' Critical Face down."

Cost: 26

[Gadge 4,294]

You see personally i'd keep the ability.

 

Tycho being able to PTL and build up stress he can ignore on an Xwing would be interesting, he'd be focussing and target locking every turn which would rock up his damage output, he'd just hav a harder time clearing it without an R2 mech.

[SpikeSpiegel 2,077]

I'd say the problem with keeping the same ability and moving the pilot to another ship would still be a bit stale and somewhat broken. Luke's ability in an E-Wing gets the bonus of an additional green die, not to mention two more actions on his bar, a sensor suite and an amazing dial. Same goes for Howlrunner, if we put her in a Defender or an Interceptor, her ability is multiplied by either shields and a white K or an additional attack die and the Interceptor dial. If we were to do that, I feel like in order to balance the ability-to-ship value would be stiflingly expensive to cost in points.

I do really like the idea of classifying pilots to certain ships, like putting Soontir in a Bomber would be hilarious, but isn't that a problem with ST: Attack Wing? Bouncing pilots and their abilities into different ships across factions? As much as I'd love to see Han in a Lambda, I know if we were to adopt a similar system in X-Wing, although it wouldn't be as silly as AW, there would still be haunting echoes and repercussions similar to that game.

[Gadge 4,294]

yeah i mean, i dont know the answer.  If i did i'd be in game design not arguing about someone elses very good design on a forum

 

I see where you're coming from though.

 

But to me as a 'narrative' player.   If a 'character' has an ability, lets say they dont get stressed easily, or they inspire others, or they are particualrly good at outflanking... thats the ability of that character and should stay.

 

Its like albert ball the british wwi 'ace' was very short sighted.  he got a lot of 'kills' because he had to be so close to the enemy to check they were german thhat he couldnt miss at that range (he was from my town you know....).

 

Putting him in a different plane wouldnt fix his eyesight, his 'trait' would still be 'lethal when up close, hard to hit things at range'.     It might put him in an aircraft that made it easier to close with an enemy quickly though.

 

I just thematically dont see the point of putting a pilot in a new ship which then essentialy makes them a totally diffferent pilot but with the same name as the other one.

 

See what i mean, btw i dont expect you to agree with me, i just wanted you to see my rationale...

[IvlerIin 573]

You see personally i'd keep the ability.

 

Tycho being able to PTL and build up stress he can ignore on an Xwing would be interesting, he'd be focussing and target locking every turn which would rock up his damage output, he'd just hav a harder time clearing it without an R2 mech.

 

Staring at the movement dials Tycho A-wing and Tycho X-Wing would have the same number of options with a Stress Stack. Toss in an R2-Generic and the both have 8 greens.

A-Wing 14/16

X-Wing 14/15

 

I would say Tycho transferred to an X-Wing wouldn't be to that far a step. It would be similar to how he is now but with +1 hull and permanent 'Expose'

[Gadge 4,294]

Fair point, i like that.

 

But it would mean i could play my fave pilot in an xwing.

 

which i'd like to be able to do.

 

Ditto, i love interceptors... i'd love it if howlrunner could fly and interceptor.

 

I cant see that being quite OP though as all off a sudden that thee int list is chucking out 15 red dice at range one.

 

Might give fat hans something to chew on though.

[Gadge 4,294]

14 red dice... she wouldnt get an extra one herself..doh!

[Kyrios Mirage 588]

Howl lets you re-roll one die, not add one to your roll.

 

I'm on the "keep the ability" line. Feels better continuity-wise.

[Red Winter 381]

Soontir with the same ability in a defender would be a broken mess! HLC, white k-turn, delicious red turns for him... this is the problem with the idea of keeping the same ability on a pilot, but different ships.

 

The name alone is continuity enough. Instead of sticking with what is, y'all should be excited about the changes they could make to pilots if they did this. Luke could "evolve" into a different pilot. No longer the innocent farm boy, if he's flying an Ewing that means its Dark Empire Luke (more cynical, tinged by the dark side, etc). That seems waaaay more interesting than more of the same.

 

I'd also say that this would be a good idea with pilots who are truly iconic. Luke, Soontir, Han fit the bill. Keyan, Backstabber, etc not so much.

 

Han Solo (Z95)

PS 9

"When attacking crit results count as two hits"

EPT

19-20

 

Luke Skwalker (Ewing)

PS 8

"You may change 1 focus result to a crit result"

EPT

32-34

 

Corran Horn (Xwing)

PS 8

"When attacking, for each friendly ship within range 1, you may roll an additional attack dice"

EPT

29

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

Corran Horn (Xwing)

PS 8

"When attacking, for each friendly ship within range 1, you may roll an additional attack dice"

EPT

29

 

29 points seems ridiculously cheap for an X-Wing with that ability. You'd be throwing 6-8 dice with that until you are forced out of formation. 

[Red Winter 381]

I priced that way because to use it you have to stay in formation. There are quite a few builds that would punish a pilot who tried to keep 6-8 dice available. Remember, Xwings are not terribly difficult to bring down.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Red Winter

[TIE Pilot 3,501]

I can see ship crossovers (Maarek in a TIE defender for example) but not repeats on the same ship.

 

Corran Horn (Xwing)

PS 8

"When attacking, for each friendly ship within range 1, you may roll an additional attack dice"

EPT

29

 

An extra attack die upgradewise costs about 7 points.

 

Getting a six dice attack for Keyan (HLC, Opportunist, Jan, Wes Janson) takes up a whole list. Using that Corran I could surround him with Biggs and 3 Z-95s and still have 10 points left to tank up Biggs. That's a seven dice attack. Axe Biggs and I can make it an eight dice attack with 11 points left for tanking ships up. That's just in 100pt. Go up to Epic and we're talking the Collector Ship Beam from Mass Effect 2. From an X-wing.

 

I can't see this ability happening with FFG's caution on extra attack dice (they're always conditional, singular and expensive). You'd be better off looking at rerolls or other dice modification effects.

Edited November 21, 2014 by TIE Pilot

[Red Winter 381]

Maarek Stele

PS 8

"Treat all red maneuvers as white maneuvers."

EPT

38-40

Edited November 21, 2014 by Red Winter

[WWHSD 9,273]

I priced that way because to use it you have to stay in formation. There are quite a few builds that would punish a pilot who tried to keep 6-8 dice available. Remember, Xwings are not terribly difficult to bring down.

 Horn + VI

 Biggs

 Cracken + VI

 2 X Bandit

 

That gives you a 7 dice attack with TL + Focus firing in the first round of combat. That's pretty much a guarantee that you'll drop one of your opponents ships in the first exchange ( and have a chance of taking out a Fat Han in a single turn ). Even assuming that your opponent can take Biggs out in the first pass, that's still a 6 dice attack getting tossed the second round. If there was no need to K-Turn that's 6 dice with a TL and focus.

 

+1 attack die when in range one of at least one friendly ships is a much more reasonable pilot ability.

[JJFDVORAK 1,210]

This idea has been in my head forever. They should release a chart with every pilot listed. On the chart it lists what ships each pilot can fly and what their point cost, ps,and pilot ability is in each ship. Or just do like Attack Wing does, and pay squad points for your ship, then pay additional points for your pilot. Pilots keep their abilities.

[JJFDVORAK 1,210]

So

This idea has been in my head forever. They should release a chart with every pilot listed. On the chart it lists what ships each pilot can fly and what their point cost, ps,and pilot ability is in each ship. Or just do like Attack Wing does, and pay squad points for your ship, then pay additional points for your pilot. Pilots keep their abilities.

So for example, Fel is 29pts in a Tie Interceptor. On the chart it would say-Fel -Tie Fighter- 20pts, PS 9, Tie Bomber - 24pts, PS 7, Tie Defender-PS 8, 36pts. Or something like that. And it could change the pilot ability in each separate ship too. Would be awesome. Not tournament legal, as it would be impossible to keep balanced, but it could work in casual play.