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Daeglan

Question about the Sense Power

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So on the left side you can commit a force die to upgrade difficulties to target you. And at the top of the the path you can upgrade attacks. 
So is it commit 1 force die and upgrade incoming attacks twice for 2 attacks and your attacks on others or do you commit 1 force die for incoming and 1 force die for outgoing?

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Pretty sure that it's mentioned directly in the book that each Ongoing Effect is a separate effect and thus each one needs a separate Force die (or dice in some instances) to be activated.

 

So for Sense, you'd need need to have Force Rating 2 if you wanted both Ongoing Effects (upgrade difficulty of attacks and upgrade your combat checks) to be effective during a combat.  And that it'd take two separate Actions to activate them.

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So for Sense, you'd need need to have Force Rating 2 if you wanted both Ongoing Effects (upgrade difficulty of attacks and upgrade your combat checks) to be effective during a combat.  And that it'd take two separate Actions to activate them.

 

Do other people let their players have Sense constantly ongoing, like a Force die constantly committed to upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks?  I haven't had it come up in my games yet, but I'm still debating how I would handle it when it does. On one hand, I don't see any reason why someone couldn't.  On the other hand, I don't like the idea of people avoiding the action cost for that nice benefit.

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I don't think so.  It takes an Action to start the effect, though you can dismiss it as an incidental.  Just because you have a die committed to one thing doesn't mean you can move that commitment around without taking an Action to do it.

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Where does it say that ongoing force powers require an action to activate? All I see is that it only takes an incidental to end the effects.

The rules say that unless the power says otherwise it costs an action to use a Force power. Bold on page 197.

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So for Sense, you'd need need to have Force Rating 2 if you wanted both Ongoing Effects (upgrade difficulty of attacks and upgrade your combat checks) to be effective during a combat.  And that it'd take two separate Actions to activate them.

 

Do other people let their players have Sense constantly ongoing, like a Force die constantly committed to upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks?  I haven't had it come up in my games yet, but I'm still debating how I would handle it when it does. On one hand, I don't see any reason why someone couldn't.  On the other hand, I don't like the idea of people avoiding the action cost for that nice benefit.

If any of my PCs try that particularly stunt (and I've got one player that's shaping up to be exactly that kind of meta-gamer, though he's not picked up the Sense power), I'll be treating it as a constant and active usage of the Force, as well as assigning Conflict points (it's a Force and Destiny game) for acting out of fear, particularly if they've no real reason to have that ability active (such as simply strolling down a market street when nobody's actively trying to kill them).

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Ok. So say I have the defensive use of the power up. On my turn can I switch it to the offensive power at the beginning of my turn then switch back to defensive at the end of my turn?

Nope, as you're effectively activating the other effect, which is an Action as per the general rules on activating Force powers.

 

Plus, being able to do as you described (switch back and forth between the two) would make those Control Upgrades a lot more powerful than they already are, particularly since the offensive upgrade is going to include the Strength Upgrade.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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So for Sense, you'd need need to have Force Rating 2 if you wanted both Ongoing Effects (upgrade difficulty of attacks and upgrade your combat checks) to be effective during a combat.  And that it'd take two separate Actions to activate them.

 

Do other people let their players have Sense constantly ongoing, like a Force die constantly committed to upgrade the difficulty of incoming attacks?  I haven't had it come up in my games yet, but I'm still debating how I would handle it when it does. On one hand, I don't see any reason why someone couldn't.  On the other hand, I don't like the idea of people avoiding the action cost for that nice benefit.

If any of my PCs try that particularly stunt (and I've got one player that's shaping up to be exactly that kind of meta-gamer, though he's not picked up the Sense power), I'll be treating it as a constant and active usage of the Force, as well as assigning Conflict points (it's a Force and Destiny game) for acting out of fear, particularly if they've no real reason to have that ability active (such as simply strolling down a market street when nobody's actively trying to kill them).

 

 

 Wait...  there are situations when there is no one actively trying to kill you?

 

What am I doing wrong?

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 Wait...  there are situations when there is no one actively trying to kill you?

 

What am I doing wrong?

Contrary to what some players might think, not every encounter is going to end in weapons being drawn.

 

There are posters here that were in groups with somebody playing a Colonist that had focused on Charm, Deception, and Negotiation that were quite adept at literally talking the group's way out of trouble.  Saw a bit of that myself in one group where the Twi'lek Colonist/Entertainer was able to defuse potentially hostile situations a number of times simply with the right choice of words... and the fluttering of her eyelashes with a dash of heaving bosom :P

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I was really just going for a laugh. And yeah, both as a GM and a player my group tends to defuse situations rather than fight if we can. Unless we start the fight. 

 

Back to Sense! As a GM I tend to adjudicate use of Sense differently than the book suggests. I consider basic uses and right hand control upgrades to be out of turn incidentals, and the left hand ongoing effects to be free toggles at the beginning of your initiative only. I think of it as being able to use your eyes. I don't force players to use actions in most cases for perception checks and consider most uses of Sense to be in the same vein. For the ongoing effects, I consider the cost to primarily be the reduction in Force Rating. So as long as turning on or off is done only once per turn at the beginning of initiative the cost still applies.

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If any of my PCs try that particularly stunt (and I've got one player that's shaping up to be exactly that kind of meta-gamer, though he's not picked up the Sense power), I'll be treating it as a constant and active usage of the Force, as well as assigning Conflict points (it's a Force and Destiny game) for acting out of fear, particularly if they've no real reason to have that ability active (such as simply strolling down a market street when nobody's actively trying to kill them).

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as doling out Conflict, because caution is not the same as fear. I might assign strain, though, since constantly using the Force in such a way might overtax one's physiological resources, especially in an environment where you have no reason to expect an attack.

 

But in an area where you expect trouble, it would be on par with drawing a weapon or taking a stealthy approach into a room.

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If any of my PCs try that particularly stunt (and I've got one player that's shaping up to be exactly that kind of meta-gamer, though he's not picked up the Sense power), I'll be treating it as a constant and active usage of the Force, as well as assigning Conflict points (it's a Force and Destiny game) for acting out of fear, particularly if they've no real reason to have that ability active (such as simply strolling down a market street when nobody's actively trying to kill them).

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as doling out Conflict, because caution is not the same as fear. I might assign strain, though, since constantly using the Force in such a way might overtax one's physiological resources, especially in an environment where you have no reason to expect an attack.

 

But in an area where you expect trouble, it would be on par with drawing a weapon or taking a stealthy approach into a room.

 

Being overly cautious is acting out of fear though.

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If any of my PCs try that particularly stunt (and I've got one player that's shaping up to be exactly that kind of meta-gamer, though he's not picked up the Sense power), I'll be treating it as a constant and active usage of the Force, as well as assigning Conflict points (it's a Force and Destiny game) for acting out of fear, particularly if they've no real reason to have that ability active (such as simply strolling down a market street when nobody's actively trying to kill them).

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as doling out Conflict, because caution is not the same as fear. I might assign strain, though, since constantly using the Force in such a way might overtax one's physiological resources, especially in an environment where you have no reason to expect an attack.

 

But in an area where you expect trouble, it would be on par with drawing a weapon or taking a stealthy approach into a room.

 

Being overly cautious is acting out of fear though.

 

Daeglan's hit the nail on the head.

 

Fear leads to anger, anger to suffering, etc.

 

On the mechanical side of things, it's also a munchkin tactic, much like how folks would, under Saga Edition and prior to the errata, ready the battle strike power long before combat actually broke out since it only triggered on the Jedi's next attack roll with no time restriction; so pre-errata a Jedi could roll out of bed and activate battle strike before heading off to shower or have breakfast.

 

if the players want their Force user PCs to have "advanced warning of danger" then the way to do that is to buy up their Vigilance skill and pick up a rank or two of Uncanny Reactions.  Or better still, take the Foresee power and the Control Upgrade that lets you spend Force Points to add successes along with the Control Upgrade to increase your defense by 2 for that first round of combat.

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Agreed on both counts, Dono and Daeglan. I would still elect to take a case-by-case approach though, and rule it as the situation dictates. If a PC a is being overly cautious, I'll call it like I see it. I guess I just don't like the idea of a fixed rule in that regard.

If I had a player like the one you're describing, Dono, I might have to institute something more permanent...but as it is, my players only really commit their Force dice to such things when trouble is obviously imminent but initiative hasn't yet been rolled. And if they want to do that instead of making a skill check like other PCs are doing, I'll allow it, since they are giving up their chances to be successful at something now so they can be more successful at something later, should the Bantha fodder hit the fan.

But for the player that literally wants it to be "always on," yeah there might have to be some consequences, although unless it was a recurring problem, I think strain (or possibly a temporary lowered strain threshold) would be enough.

Edited by awayputurwpn

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The "activate at first sign of actual trouble" I have no problem with.  It's the PC being smart and readying themselves for something bad to happen, particularly if the party face isn't able to talk the bad guys down or otherwise discourage open hostilities.

 

The "always on" scenario hasn't occurred (yet) in any of the games I've run, but aside from the Conflict I figure another consequence is that the PC is actively using the Force, and thus would become more noticeable to other Force users... such as the Inquisitors whose very job is to track down rogue Force users such as the PCs and either recruit or destroy them.

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