The Forest's Malice

[JanB 85]

http://deckbauer.telfador.net/card.html&id=4251

 

Need some clarification about The Forest's Malice. The Huorn attacks places outside the combat phase .. do they get shadowcards for the attacks?

 

The rulesheet specifises, that a Huorn-Enemy does not get a shadowcard when it attacks and do not attack in combat phase.

 

But the FAQ says, that an enemy which makes an attack outside the combat phase will get a shadow card.

 

I'm confused.

 

 

[faith_star83 21]

Based on the discussions in below topics I would say, yes, it gets a shadow card. As all additional attacks get one. On the other hand it makes no sense, that e.g. enemies put in Play by Mugash don't get additional attacks!

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/124987-new-shadow-card-for-additional-attack/

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/126185-question-about-murzag/?hl=murzag

[MyNeighbourTrololo 689]

Why are you confused? You just answered your question. 

What rulesheet specifies regards the regular combat phase happenings. What FAQ specifies regards out-of-order attacks. 

 

Hinder

The Hinder keyword appears on the Huorn enemies in this 

scenario. While engaged with a player, an enemy with the 

Hinder keyword is not dealt a shadow card and does not make 

an attack during the combat phase. 

[MyNeighbourTrololo 689]

Based on the discussions in below topics I would say, yes, it gets a shadow card. As all additional attacks get one. On the other hand it makes no sense, that e.g. enemies put in Play by Mugash don't get additional attacks!

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/124987-new-shadow-card-for-additional-attack/

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/126185-question-about-murzag/?hl=murzag

It's all makes perfect sense. Shadow cards are dealt at the beginning of the combat phase. Enemies put into play after the act of dealing shadow cards but before the regular combat phase enemy attack act will indeed make an unshadowed attack, because it's a regular one, not an out-of-order one.

[JanB 85]

Thanks for your answers.

 

my understanding of the rulesheet is that each Huorn-enemy will not "normally" attack during combat phase and will get no shadow card it it makes an attack. Right?

 

So the treachery card let them normal attack but without dealing shadow cards for this attacks. For me, it's an out-of-order attack.

[MyNeighbourTrololo 689]

Hinder replaces regular combat phase attacks.

 

Anything that makes an enemy attack out of regular combat phase routine (and does not specifies dealing the shadow card or not) - deals a shadow card to the attacker.

[alogos 171]

He just post you all the response you needed !

 

my understanding of the rulesheet is that each Huorn-enemy will not "normally" attack during combat phase and will get no shadow card it it makes an attack. Right?

So the treachery card let them normal attack but without dealing shadow cards for this attacks. For me, it's an out-of-order attack.

 

They are not dealt shadow card at the start of the combat phase. Nothing say they do not receive shadow card normally when they make additional attack.

Every additional attack is not the normal attack, and enemies receive their shadow card not like normal attack for it.

[JanB 85]

 

Hinder

The Hinder keyword appears on the Huorn enemies in this 

scenario. While engaged with a player, an enemy with the 

Hinder keyword is not dealt a shadow card and does not make 

an attack during the combat phase.

 

This is the rule for Hinder ... 

 

The situation is that the Huorn enemies are engaged with the players when "The Forest's Malice" shows up.

 

So the second sentence of the rule is fullfilled -> While engaged with a player ... 

So, an enemy with the Hinder keyword is not dealt a shadow card.

The second part specifies the behavior during the combat phase -> does not make an attack.

 

So, when "The Forest's Mailce" shows up, all Huorn enemies will make an attack (because we are not in the combat phase), but will not get any shadow cards for this attach, as stated in the short paragraph.

 

OR .. belongs the condition "during the combat phase" to the first part "...is not dealt a shadow card", too? That is my primary question

[MyNeighbourTrololo 689]

****, you've been answered here several times. Why are you looking for what is not there?

 

While engaged with a player, an enemy with the 

Hinder keyword is not dealt a shadow card and does not make 

an attack during the combat phase.

This is the whole sentence, complete. Do not separate it to twist it's meaning.

[alogos 171]

 

OR .. belongs the condition "during the combat phase" to the first part "...is not dealt a shadow card", too? That is my primary question

 

 

The "dealt a shadow card" is referencing the only time in the rules where enemies are dealt a shadow card (except rules on additionnal attack that is an exception) and it is at the start of the combat phase. So, yes, the last part of the phrase "during the combat phase" refere to both the previous actions that are "dealt a shadow card" and "does not make an attack".

 

With Forest Malice it provide an additionnal attack, that deal a shadow card that is not the standard process (of the combat phase). Hinder rules does not refere and does not prevent this additionnal card.

 

 

 

****, you've been answered here several times. Why are you looking for what is not there?

 

This is also my last attempt.

[JanB 85]

thx for your replys. it was not my intention to annoy you. Sry if i don't get it after your first tries of explaination.

Often there are discussions about wording or syntax, so i hope you can understand why i ask about it. 

 

About the "exception" getting shadow cards on additional attacks ... this can be found in the FAQ - is the FAQ not a kind of "rulesheet"? So, if yes, the "dealt a shadow card" is referenced a second time in the rules .. or not?

[alogos 171]

Yes but discussion about syntax are more often silly than practical ans rarely usefull.

Yes, it is "referenced" in the rules since the faq extends the rules. But because it specifically talk about THE card dealt during THE combat phase, the Hinder doesn't refere to this exception.

[JanB 85]

Ok, thanks for clarification ..

[Distractionbeast 132]

Don't take the attitude of some personally.  It's a valid question and I understand exactly what you're asking even if some unnamed others don't.  Judging by the amount of clarifications that have been needed in the course of this game, the designers know that even a single punctuation can make the difference in how a rule is applied.

 

The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.  The game is here for us (consumers) to play and enjoy.  If you have a question that is making that difficult, ask away.

[leptokurt 242]

I think the point of misunderstanding here is that enemies normally still get shadow cards, even if they don't attack. When I started playing I made the intuitive assumption that no shadow card is dealt when there's no attack (which makes a lot of sense, actually).

 

I still wonder why they added that bit about shadow cards. I didn't play this scenario very often, so I'm probably missing somethign important, but what's the point in not dealing shadow cards to the ents?

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Probably to avoid harmlessly cycling the encounter deck.  You could use that, combined with some scry or encounter manipulation effects, to ensure that a dreaded card passes harmlessly as an inert shadow effect.

[faith_star83 21]

 

Based on the discussions in below topics I would say, yes, it gets a shadow card. As all additional attacks get one. On the other hand it makes no sense, that e.g. enemies put in Play by Mugash don't get additional attacks!

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/124987-new-shadow-card-for-additional-attack/

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/126185-question-about-murzag/?hl=murzag

It's all makes perfect sense. Shadow cards are dealt at the beginning of the combat phase. Enemies put into play after the act of dealing shadow cards but before the regular combat phase enemy attack act will indeed make an unshadowed attack, because it's a regular one, not an out-of-order one.

 

 

Ok, thanks now I get it: Regular attacks get dealt shadow cards only in the beginning of the combat-phase. Out-of-order attacks get always dealt a shadow card.

 

Thanks for clarifying this once more.