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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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57 minutes ago, Cannon3 said:

"When I am gone, the last of the Jedi will you be" - Yoda

Not according to Dave Filoni with this Ashoka Lives crap and Ezra trapped in "Space Whale Hyperspace ****".

We don’t know when Ahsoka left the portal relative to the OT timeline.  And she may not consider herself a Jedi anymore anyway.

Ezra, never knighted, probably becomes a Druid.  

Or it was Filoni’s master plan that Yoda’s other was Ezra, and George messed it up back in 1983 when Filoni was still playing with action figures.  George, you stoke this kid’s thunder!

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Shout Out to George Lucas in Finale

 

Toward the middle of the episode, this happens:

HERA:  Team B, where are you?

ZEB:  We're heading towards Sector GL-44, but you know that plan we had to trap all these Stormtroopers in the dome?  It just occurred to me, we're trapped with all these Stormtroopers in this dome!

 

GL-44, George Lucas was born in 1944.

 

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52 minutes ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

Shout Out to George Lucas in Finale

 

Toward the middle of the episode, this happens:

HERA:  Team B, where are you?

ZEB:  We're heading towards Sector GL-44, but you know that plan we had to trap all these Stormtroopers in the dome?  It just occurred to me, we're trapped with all these Stormtroopers in this dome!

 

GL-44, George Lucas was born in 1944.

 

I love little things like this. IIRC Star Trek had pipes in some of the starship sets labelled "GNDN"

Goes nowhere, does nothing.

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6 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

We don’t know when Ahsoka left the portal relative to the OT timeline.  And she may not consider herself a Jedi anymore anyway.

Ezra, never knighted, probably becomes a Druid.  

Or it was Filoni’s master plan that Yoda’s other was Ezra, and George messed it up back in 1983 when Filoni was still playing with action figures.  George, you stoke this kid’s thunder!

"Last of the Jedi will you be. Well, maybe. Call others I have tried. Return my calls, they do not. Hmm, yes, messages I have left"

Obi-Wan appears in the background

"They could have... ghosted you" he snickers.

"Hmmm. Out of my house, you must get. Into the ocean, you must please go."

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18 hours ago, xanderf said:

I really tried to like 'A New Hope', but are you telling me in the end, the Rebels won their struggle because:

  • Some farm boy has a destiny based on his who is parents are that gives him special powers?  C'mon!
  • A magic space wizard teaches him to use space magic, which he somehow learns to do, but gets killed, and even though dead can still talk to him!  How are we supposed to believe this stuff?
  • The ultimate battle is settled by shooting a target too small to hit, but somehow nobody-farmboy uses space magic and blows up the entire thing!  Ridiculous!!

Wow, that really made me see the light, man! -_-

To be serious for a moment, you can make the argument that the Force itself is just a large Deus Ex Machina the movies revolve around. But at least they use that as an explanation for your points.

Rebels doesn't bother to explain teleportation, time travel or hyperspace-travelling space whales, nor does it hints that they have anything to do with the Force. Force users USE the Force to initiate changes according to their will. The Rebels "characters" just react to inexplicable events outside of their scope or influence.

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My thoughts on the finale.

I would bother with a spoiler tag, but A, I don't know how, B, people already written everything down. But spoilers, obviously.


Preface:
I kinda liked the series as a whole. I understand its limitations (Run time, marketed audience, limited assets, etc.) and tried to find enjoyment in it nevertheless. I like the way ships are drawn for example, and as other mentioned, there are some truly beautiful shots in the series (you know... when there are no characters on the screen).
I liked some characters, Kallus, Kaanan, Chopper, Hera and Ezra are all pretty well written, and I particularly enjoyed Ezra's slip towards the Dark Side, however temporary that was.
Rex, while I have no love for TCW or the character's previous shenanigans, was also well done, I enjoyed his scenes. I really like that he is the old bearded guy on Endor, it really ties the world together.
That being said, the series wasn't without flaws. Serious ones at that. From the start, the show had a trouble with Villains... They never lasted long, and the main characters were often saved by bad writing, and bullsh!t incompetence. Which brings up my biggest problem, and that is the Empire. They were rarely a threat. Even the supposed elite troopers are easily defeated by the heroes, even the ones that lack the necessary backstory to be expert fighters. It's one thing that Zeb or Sabine (more on her later) or the Jedi can defeat troopers, but Hera and Chopper have no business being so effective combatants. Overwhelming enemy forces, superior equipment, often elite enemy soldiers, tactical disadvantage all mean nothing to the main characters. Even if they are forced to flee, their losses are mostly handwaved.
Not only that, but the main crew have destroyed several star destroyers during their career... Such a great victory for a small rebel cell comes very often.... The characters SAY the empire is scary, but in the show, they are most definitely not. Their incompetence causes them to become a joke, rather than a credible threat.

The Finale:
I'm not so thrilled about the ending. I'm going to start with the things I liked.

Ezra's connection with animals was clearly established early on in the series, and this finale built on that. That's really cool, although, I think it could have gotten a bit more emphasis as a "skill" rather than a gift, or maybe he could have went a bit technical with it, but that's nitpicking. 
I also liked the way Thrawn handled the situation. He was ruthless, and he was not playing around. Too bad that the series' previously mentioned flaws permeated this episode as well, and the heroes barely had to face any opposition when taking over the shield generator, in a place that is allegedly "full of stormtroopers".
Hondo is a gift that keeps on giving. When eventually he gets into the game, I hope he will also have synergy with Ezra, and a similar clause to be included in rebel lists.
Ian McDiarmid! He rules.

 

However... There are several issues with it, namely: "Rebel" victory before Scariff, Zany Spacewhale Fatality, and Lothal's earned freedom.


First, the Rebel victory. I don't care if you say you are not "technically" part of the rebellion on the day when you defeat the empire, but you were before, and join up with them right after during Scariff, and stay part of them until Endor... as Vader puts it:

giphy.gif

This of course bugs me because it retcons the movies...and the opening crawl of the New Hope. Filoni, get lost. You are the worst.

Second.. the whales. I get that we have seen them before... but that was years ago. And Ezra had nothing to do with calling them. And they are seemingly immortal, and can take out a sizeable fleet without casualties... No, just no.

Finally... No. Lothal after this is destroyed, turned into glass and deleted from galactic records. Never existed.

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2 hours ago, Captain Pellaeon said:

Wow, that really made me see the light, man! -_-

To be serious for a moment, you can make the argument that the Force itself is just a large Deus Ex Machina the movies revolve around. But at least they use that as an explanation for your points.

Rebels doesn't bother to explain teleportation, time travel or hyperspace-travelling space whales, nor does it hints that they have anything to do with the Force. Force users USE the Force to initiate changes according to their will. The Rebels "characters" just react to inexplicable events outside of their scope or influence.

A central (even if fantastical) element to a story, like the Force, cannot be a Deus Ex Machina. That's like saying the spice in Dune is a DEM. The closest I can think to a DEM who's a core part of the story would be Gandalf and his powers and he's literally a divine creature and there's a reason Tolkien a) deliberately wrote him out of a large part of both the Hobbit and LotR and b) never explicitly defined Gandalf's True Power Level. And even then, Gandalf's less a DEM and more someone you can't keep around too much because his (deliberately ill-defined) powers make him a bit of a Swiss Army Knife. The whole point of a DEM is it comes from nowhere or nothing that's previously been established in the text.

Rebels CLEARLY explain hyperspace travelling whales in an entire episode. It even implied that the whales used the gas the Mining Guild were after to hyperjump. People have even inferred that sapient beings developed hyperdrives by basically reverse engineering the natural ability of the whales (and it's been mentioned in Rebels Recon). We get as much explanation for the whale's natural ability as we do actual mechanical hyperdrives.

I'm not sure what you mean by teleportation. But if you're referring to the wolves, it also makes it clear that they are connected to the Force and it's very clearly shown that they can appear pretty much out of nowhere before we see them use the hyperspace tunnelling. Also, there is a conscious element of mystery around them that unfolds as we see them more.

Again, the World between Worlds is clearly established as being a nexus of time and space. Ezra didn't just pull a time turner out of his pocket, the whole plot hinged around it (and the significance of Lothal and the temple in particular is hinted at many times in the show).

As for reacting to inexplicable events

Kanan's plan to rescue Hera, and his decision to make Ezra leader of that mission, comes from Kanan. Kanan chooses to sacrifice himself. Even if he had precognition of that event, it's still a choice. That he used the Force to foresee and make.

Ezra choosing to take up the mantle of Kanan and lead the group as Kanan would have done is from his character development. Ezra explicitly states in his final message that he saw many paths and that was the one he chose. Again, using the Force to do so.

Ezra's ability to interact with the whales, wolves, all sorts of creatures, comes from him making decisions to open up to life around him, which is a recurring motif in the series. It goes back to him making the choice to interact with the fyrnocks despite the massive risks of that. He makes the choice to trust dangerous creatures, as does Kanan. Using the force.

Sabine chooses to distract everyone so Ezra can slip away. She chooses to lead the Mandalorians but also give up the mantle to someone she chooses who she things would be a better leader and a more rightful heir.

Zeb chooses to risk his life to take Rukh out of the equation.

Hondo chooses to sacrifice his usual mercenary attitude out of his caring for Ezra.

Ezra makes a vital choice NOT to betray his friends and selfishly go back to his family. He chooses to snub the Emperor at very high risk to his life.

This is only a sample of the smattering of the choices made throughout the entire run of the show that in some instances have pretty big implications.

And many of these choices factor in to consistent character arcs as well for these characters.

The idea that the characters we see in Rebels a) aren't characters (which I'm guessing we are supposed to deduce from the sarcastic quotation marks?) and b) don't make choices is patently absurd.

 

Seriously, if you don't like the show, that's absolutely fine. But there's no need to be deliberately disingenuous about it.

 

Edited by Ktan

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16 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

My point was that both Lothwolves and Purrgil are sapient, and are not simple animals coming to save the day, but intelligent beings that chose to help.

I'm nitpicking here, but Loth-Wolves ARE sapient, but Purgill are not.

Ezra being the focal point to force sensitive animals is fine by me, but the Purgill showed up not because of Ezra, but because of Mart and "Frequency Zero."

The fact that Mart was given this secret mission by Ezra, who casually dismissed Wolffe's query is very much a "adults won't understand!" kind of moment. I get that they were trying to build suspense, but this is probably a scene better left out than included. It makes more sense if Ezra summons the Purgill himself, instead of Mart and this Frequency Zero nonsense.

And the Purgill being able to headbutt through a Star Destroyers armor is also quite silly. Bumper cars with Star Destroyers I can accept. But to puncture the armor of a warship? Why isn't the Empire making their starship armor out of Purgill skin and skulls again? These animals are a nuisance (per Hera) and they have phenomenal durability. More so than the standard Durasteel at least.

Edited by Yakostovian

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10 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Being defeated by space whales is more believable than Thrawn being defeated by an opponent trying to out think him.

True but it surprised me the disdain he had for the Force and the Jedi in general. Even great military leaders are often undone by their own overconfidence

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12 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

The fact that Mart was given this secret mission by Ezra, who casually dismissed Wolffe's query is very much a "adults won't understand!" kind of moment. I get that they were trying to build suspense, but this is probably a scene better left out than included. It makes more sense if Ezra summons the Purgill himself, instead of Mart and this Frequency Zero nonsense.

I can get behind that. We already know connections between things can exist across galaxies. The "frequency zero" thing does add more questions than it answers.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Trghpu1994 said:

Thrawn is undone by space whales? I liked it up until that part. 

 

Ahh the life of the gallant Imperial Officer.

Not only does the Imperial Officer Core have to worry about Fanatical A - Wing Pilots, Suicidal Rebel Resistance Vice Admirals, and guys who’s first name is Lord, now they have to worry about motha freaucking Space Whales‼️

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I just now got to watch the finale. Sort of what I expected. Didn’t think Ezra would die but I did think he would trap himself in the portal to keep Plap from getting access. 

So, the door is wide open for a new series about the return of Ezra....and maybe Thrawn along with the training of little Kanan. Or maybe this will be the new trilogy directed by Rian Johnson? And was Broom Boy little Kanan?

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20 minutes ago, drail14me said:

So, the door is wide open for a new series about the return of Ezra....and maybe Thrawn along with the training of little Kanan. Or maybe this will be the new trilogy directed by Rian Johnson? And was Broom Boy little Kanan?

Considering I'm fairly certain little Kanan was made... when, exactly? I mean, I get the love story, but wasn't the whole point that nothing was done about it? How long are Twileks pregnant for? Lots of other questions - like when did the stalk arrive? How are babies made?

 

Anyway, he was conceived BEFORE Yavin and Broom boy is at least 30 years later, so no. 

 

------------

 

I liked the ending. I thought the wales were a bit much after I guessed they would arrive - I was hoping it would be Bendu. But I like how Ezra and Thrawn were removed from the OT, I like that they essentially confirmed Rex is old guy at Endor and I thought Sabine's epilogue was a good way to end it. Yes it had its problems and Rebels probably had around as many hits as misses, but I enjoyed it overall.

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Could they have at least made Jacen less creepy looking?

There is no way I believe him as a hybrid of a Twi'lek and a human.

We can make a million reasons why he looks the way he does, thats not the point.

Aesthetically it doesn't work for me.

 ~

@The Penguin UK If Bendu showed up, I could've gotten behind the ending.

 

Edited by Forresto

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41 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

Considering I'm fairly certain little Kanan was made... when, exactly? I mean, I get the love story, but wasn't the whole point that nothing was done about it? How long are Twileks pregnant for? Lots of other questions - like when did the stalk arrive? How are babies made?

In early episodes was already suggest Kanan and Hera slept together. I might be wrong, but once Ezra woke up in the middle of the night and went to Kanan's room (attracted by Kanan's lightsaber? - I can't remember) and Kanan wasn't there. Where do you think Kanan was? ;)

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I liked the series my two favorite episodes were "In the name of the Rebellion"  I do wonder if all it took were space whales why they didn't call them in sooner. I was hoping for an ending with Kanan and Ezra vs Thrawn dueling it out as all heck breaks loose around them but it did nicely end the series and leave open for sequels as well so Disney can continue to milk the cash cow

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