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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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6 hours ago, jmswood said:

Can you link that interview? I'm curious if he hinted at the timeline. Unless there's evidence to the contrary, the finale of Rebels could result in Hera's promotion to General, and her mention by that title in Rogue One remains nothing more or less than a good easter egg. 

Mentioned in R1?

****, I missed that..

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So are Ahsoka, Ezra, and Kanan considered Jedi by the Empire at large? Thrawn certainly seemed to use the title liberally against the latter two and I'd say only Vader would know the truth against the former.

The reason I ask this is that all three individuals have been highly visible in the galaxy; enough to draw the attention of both Tarkin and Vader have had their attention drawn to the sector and to these people in particular. And yet both Tarkin and Vader have a discussion on the Death Star about how 'The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion'.

Since these two have firsthand knowledge of the three saber wielding freedom fighters, it makes little sense for Tarkin to make this kind of statement unless they have ample evidence that they all have met their end one way or another. Tarkin isn't likely to be a man who quibbles over such things as padawans or gray jedi, so such a statement cannot be circumvented for such a reason.

We know that at least 2 members of the Ghost crew survive to Scarrif, mere days before that conversation takes place. We have Dave Filoni making statements that Ahsoka is not dead, and statements from him saying that he is very unwilling to kill off characters that he likes.

Now, Ahsoka might be some kind of wolf thing now, which certainly isn't something that Tarkin and Vader would consider when deciding whether she was dead or not. But that leaves Kanan and Ezra on the Empire's radar. Kanan might be killed off, but killing Ezra would be like killing Luke in the OT. We only have 1 season for this to be decided, and unless there's going to be a R1 massacre at the end of the series (unlikely in a kid's show) each episode that passes will make any deaths and especially the results of those deaths more and more rushed.

Is this something that Filoni is keeping in mind as the series comes to a close? Is he going to pull a Dash Rendar on Ezra? Is he too attached to his characters to avoid a rather glaring plot conflict?

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It's perfectly possible for Vader and Tarkin to believe that those three are dead without it being the case.  Obi Wan is more circumspect, describing the Jedi as all but extinct, which has quite a lot of wriggle room built in.

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4 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Eh...when your numbers go from around 10k to, like, 4...I think it's fair for people to just kinda assume your organization doesn't exist anymore.

Yes, but words like extinct and the last of the religion points to exactly 3 less than 4 with the remainder just so happening to be a Sith. Not a lot of wiggle room with those two sentences. Having a couple of guys with lightsabers making fools of your forces just a couple of years ago doesn't lead one to use those phrases unless they're stuffed and mounted in the Imperial museum as the last of their kind.

Edited by flyboymb

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13 minutes ago, flyboymb said:

Yes, but words like extinct and the last of the religion points to exactly 3 less than 4 with the remainder just so happening to be a Sith. Not a lot of wiggle room with those two sentences. Having a couple of guys with lightsabers making fools of your forces just a couple of years ago doesn't lead one to use those phrases unless they're stuffed and mounted in the Imperial museum as the last of their kind.

Not sure that's true - Latin is widely held as an 'extinct' and 'dead' language.  Yet, thousands of people still speak it fluently, even today.

It won't ever matter that they do - not in the way that 'speaking Latin' was important more than a thousand years ago.  And it's not the 'first language' of any of them.  So it's certainly fair to call the language 'extinct and dead'.  But people DO still speak it fluently - it isn't forgotten or unused.  It simply no longer matters.

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1 minute ago, DarthEnderX said:

It is if you're being hyperbolic.

How pray tell am I exaggerating the definition of extinct? Extinct means wiped out. Absolutely zero. It is something given to things that are known not to exist anymore. Ezra and Kanan are referred to as Jedi by Imperials on multiple occasions. Tarkin and Vader actually come in to confront these two.

Either they pull a Dash Rendar and go so far off the radar that nobody has a hint that they're alive, or they actually die. You don't say that Bonnie and Clyde are dead just because they haven't been seen for 6 months after their last heist. You do that if you find their car with a couple of charred corpses at the bottom of a cliff or if you set up an ambush and riddle them with submachine gun fire.

Just how does Tarkin's quote make sense if Ezra and Kanan are still flinging stormtroopers around with Force powers in the series finale and that is set right before Scarif?

I'll see your hyperbole and raise you dancing around the issue.

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Just now, xanderf said:

Not sure that's true - Latin is widely held as an 'extinct' and 'dead' language.  Yet, thousands of people still speak it fluently, even today.

It won't ever matter that they do - not in the way that 'speaking Latin' was important more than a thousand years ago.  And it's not the 'first language' of any of them.  So it's certainly fair to call the language 'extinct and dead'.  But people DO still speak it fluently - it isn't forgotten or unused.  It simply no longer matters.

This is simply wrong. An extinct language has no more speakers. That is why it is extinct. A dead language is one that does not evolve anymore. But Tarkin didn't say that the Jedi are dead, he said they are extinct and that Vader is the last member of their religion. That is an overwhelmingly specific thing to say when the both of you were chasing Jedi only a couple years ago.

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11 minutes ago, flyboymb said:

 

How pray tell am I exaggerating the definition of extinct? Extinct means wiped out. Absolutely zero. It is something given to things that are known not to exist anymore. Ezra and Kanan are referred to as Jedi by Imperials on multiple occasions. Tarkin and Vader actually come in to confront these two.

Either they pull a Dash Rendar and go so far off the radar that nobody has a hint that they're alive, or they actually die. You don't say that Bonnie and Clyde are dead just because they haven't been seen for 6 months after their last heist. You do that if you find their car with a couple of charred corpses at the bottom of a cliff or if you set up an ambush and riddle them with submachine gun fire.

Just how does Tarkin's quote make sense if Ezra and Kanan are still flinging stormtroopers around with Force powers in the series finale and that is set right before Scarif?

I'll see your hyperbole and raise you dancing around the issue.

Er... I took that "hyperbolic" statement as TARKIN being hyperbolic.

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It was a statement of disbelief that Vader was sensing Obi-Wan on the Death Star. He was expressing that he believed Vader to be the only one of his kind left in existence. Tarkin is justified to feel that Kenobi isn't on the Death Star as he hasn't seen him in decades. But Tarkin has seen Jedi as recently as a couple years ago. Unless something happened to change their status of living at that time, then it is just weird to make repeated comments in that regard.

If anything, Tarkin would be asking Vader if he might be mistakenly sensing the Jedi that have been known to work with the Rebellion whose ship was seen at the battle where the Death Star plans were stolen.

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5 hours ago, flyboymb said:

It was a statement of disbelief that Vader was sensing Obi-Wan on the Death Star. He was expressing that he believed Vader to be the only one of his kind left in existence. Tarkin is justified to feel that Kenobi isn't on the Death Star as he hasn't seen him in decades. But Tarkin has seen Jedi as recently as a couple years ago. Unless something happened to change their status of living at that time, then it is just weird to make repeated comments in that regard.

If anything, Tarkin would be asking Vader if he might be mistakenly sensing the Jedi that have been known to work with the Rebellion whose ship was seen at the battle where the Death Star plans were stolen.

Even for a head canon retcon this is a stretch. 

The moment I learned there were Jedi in Rebels, the Star Wars originalist in me wanted them dead. Having spent some time watching the series, I appreciate the production team's creativity. My new hope is for Rebels to find a creative way to end the series without contradicting anything as obvious as Tarkin's statement to Vader. Yes, killing Ezra and Kanan in a manner visible to Tarkin is the easiest solution, and the one many originalists (like myself) would prefer to see. I pragmatically accept this outcome is unlikely. So here are some possibilities I've imagined:

Kanan and Ezra are involved in an attack against the factory on Lothal. Tarkin orders his typical "destroy it so your enemy can't have it" strategy and assumes he killed the Ezra and Kanan in the process. They could be dead or not, the point is Tarkin not only believes they are dead, he believes he killed them. This idea serves two purposes in preserving original continuity: it respects Tarkin's statement to Vader, and it explains the scarcity of TIE Defenders. 

The Ghost gets captured at some point in season 4, and in the process some of the Storm Troopers report the known Jedi as casualties. In the mean time, Ezra and Kanan escape to Mandalore to join Sabine. Back on the Ghost, Hera and Chopper manage a getaway back to Yavin. Hera cuts herself off from Ezra and Kanan to protect them from the Empire, maybe even going so far as reporting them dead to Rebel command. 

Just some loose theories to start my morning. 

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On 4/15/2017 at 9:38 PM, DailyRich said:

Can we talk about Hera weaponizing the jump to lightspeed by doing it inside a hangar full of TIEs?

Can we talk about how it used to be that traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it? Now days, you can exit hangers, land on superweapons, flee from doomed holy cities, and now fly through a small space station, all at lightspeed. It is a bit silly and incongruous. 

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11 hours ago, flyboymb said:

It was a statement of disbelief that Vader was sensing Obi-Wan on the Death Star. He was expressing that he believed Vader to be the only one of his kind left in existence. Tarkin is justified to feel that Kenobi isn't on the Death Star as he hasn't seen him in decades. But Tarkin has seen Jedi as recently as a couple years ago. Unless something happened to change their status of living at that time, then it is just weird to make repeated comments in that regard.

If anything, Tarkin would be asking Vader if he might be mistakenly sensing the Jedi that have been known to work with the Rebellion whose ship was seen at the battle where the Death Star plans were stolen.

Keep in mind that in the Legends canon, there were quite a few Jedi that survived Order 66 (more than what Rebels has shown) and survived into the original trilogy (including post-Death Star) yet no one complained when Tarkin made the statement back then.

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11 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Keep in mind that in the Legends canon, there were quite a few Jedi that survived Order 66 (more than what Rebels has shown) and survived into the original trilogy (including post-Death Star) yet no one complained when Tarkin made the statement back then.

Did Tarkin personally encounter any of them? Because therein lies the source of peoples' gripe with Rebels. 

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34 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

Can we talk about how it used to be that traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it? Now days, you can exit hangers, land on superweapons, flee from doomed holy cities, and now fly through a small space station, all at lightspeed. It is a bit silly and incongruous. 

Of course, that was said by the same guy who thought he could fool a couple of rubes by using a measure of distance as a measure of time, so he may have been exaggerating.

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9 minutes ago, jmswood said:

Did Tarkin personally encounter any of them? Because therein lies the source of peoples' gripe with Rebels. 

There's also the bit in season one where Tarkin even outright says he doesn't consider Kanan a Jedi, and it may be safe to assume he still thinks that of Kanan and Ezra.

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Meh, I shouldn't have gotten involved. But in all honesty, does it really matter? Does Kanan and/or Ezra's existence, whether they survive or whether they die really, truly matter? The events of the Original trilogy seemed to go on just fine whether they were still around or not.

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31 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Meh, I shouldn't have gotten involved. But in all honesty, does it really matter? Does Kanan and/or Ezra's existence, whether they survive or whether they die really, truly matter? The events of the Original trilogy seemed to go on just fine whether they were still around or not.

Its because they most certainly would be still apart of the rebel alliance and by the time Luke comes around they dont ever meet. Not only that but Luke never mentions them to Yoda. You could argue that they talked about them off screen but then I call that bad story telling. Something that important such as "There are other living jedi who could potentially help you fight the sith" you say on screen

We know Rex, Hera, and Chopper survive the series. Sabine and Zeb we cant be sure yet but they serve no continuity issues. Not like Kanan or Ezra.

Edited by Forresto

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