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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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9 hours ago, Blue Five said:

Which means you could escape an Interdictor by turning them off. If all an Interdictor did was confuse the navicomp the Rebels would rapidly have found a workaround. Got the impression WEG was more through than that: all the inconsistencies from what I've seen were external.

Best explanation for why there are no hyperspace mass drivers is because hyperspace doesn't work like that: travelling in hyperspace doesn't involve equivalent momentum to sublight. Otherwise dropping out of hyperspace would kill you. Hit something? You get forced out of hyperspace and hit it with sublight force.

Uh, yeah that's the point, he objects exit hyperspace with relativistic speeds, anywhere from zero to C depending on either the starting velocity before the jump or some other situation that involves the hyperdrive motivator granting the ship any velocity specific to the pilot's desire.  None of it is really all that well defined because physicists dont write SW and writers don't give a crap about physics.  And I'm glad it's that way, otherwise SW wouldn't even have faster than light travel or circumbinary planets like Tatooine until they were actually discovered in the past few years.

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1 hour ago, Mrk1984 said:

Could that have been Evaan Verlaine? She is the Y-wing pilot that survived Yavin flying as Gold 3

She is, CURRENTLY, that Y-wing pilot, Keyan used to be in that ship before NuCanon.  Who knows what pilot will be in that Y 20 years from now, or if a other Specialer Edition adds anothe Y or just erased that ship altogether.

Edited by GrimmyV

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I loved this episode, but am I the only one that thinks the ion cannons were a bit overpowered?  I mean, two shots disabled a light cruiser.  Their shields were probably down, but even still, I'd expect it to take a few more shots. 

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6 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

Because the nebula acts enough like a planet or star to present a significant navigation hazzard. In fact: that nebula was said to have a couple stars forming within it. That makes it a bit more tricky to fly through. 

Yes but...unless the place your going is inside the nebula, why go through it at all?

You know what, it seriously doesn't matter.  It's one of those things where the writers just don't care, so there's no reason I should either.  It is what it is.

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10 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Yes but...unless the place your going is inside the nebula, why go through it at all?

You know what, it seriously doesn't matter.  It's one of those things where the writers just don't care, so there's no reason I should either.  It is what it is.

Because a nebula exists in 3D space. Going around it would take a long time. 

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2 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Yes but...unless the place your going is inside the nebula, why go through it at all?

You know what, it seriously doesn't matter.  It's one of those things where the writers just don't care, so there's no reason I should either.  It is what it is.

So, who cares about something more: The people who've spent their entire careers making, living, and breathing Star Wars, or disgruntled internet commentator who disagrees with them? People who've spent their entire careers making, living, and breathing Star Wars, or disgruntled internet commentator who disagrees with them? Hmm... what a hard choice to make.

We've already answered your complaint in several highly plausible ways. If you choose not to like it, then that's your choice. But it doesn't imply any lack of craftsmanship or caring.

You want not caring about something, go watch the Droids cartoon or the Ewok movies. THAT was not caring.

A show with highly developed characters with clear motivation, authors who care about making sure the links to previous canon is intact while still making new stories, and with beautiful visual scenes where we see a ship that fans have loved for two decades finally make its CANON DEBUT where it kicks just as much ass as it should, and all you can think is,

"They don't care."

Edited by iamfanboy

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3 hours ago, Kodiak3d said:

I loved this episode, but am I the only one that thinks the ion cannons were a bit overpowered?  I mean, two shots disabled a light cruiser. 

Two shots from a BIG ion cannon disable a Star Destroyer. Though it's true that the big ion cannon is probably much larger proportionally to the small one, than the light cruiser is to the ISD.

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12 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

What kind of fan are you?

There are different shades of "fan".
From the casual sympathizer to the fundamentalist fanatic.

I don't think that it is complaining when a person is questioning why in a series that focuses itself so much on outer space, it doesn't take outer space serious enough to at least give some reason why they do what they do. Or explain how the setting works.

The thing is that they have not bothered to explain how hyperspace works. We have those lanes, interdictors, ships jumping from the planets' atmospheres, blockades... All of that is just thrown into the dialog, but not really explained.
Before, you couldn't communicate with a ship in hyperspace. The ground team sent to destroy the shield in ROTJ could see the rebel fleet coming from hyperspace, but couldn't warn them that the shield was still up.
Since the Clone Wars series, everyone can talk to everyone, hyperspace or not. So what happened there? 
In Rebels and in Rogue One, they arbitrarily change course in the middle of hyperspace. So you seem to be able to change lane or direction somehow. They don't care to explain it.

Why did Hera decide to go thru the Nebula when she could have just jumped into any other direction, then change course? Why do they need to cross the nebula in real space instead of just circumvent it? They don't care to explain it.

Probably because there isn't any explanation other than "because the script requires them to".

  • Why two fighter-sized ion canons remove shields of a semi-capital ship? Because.
  • Why torpedoes have that effect on the nebula? Because.
  • Why the Y-Wings that blow up in the nebula don't have the same effect, even when they are loaded with torpedoes? Because.
  • Why all imperial capital ships have their shields down most of the time? Because.
  • A nebula is biiiig. How were the two star destroyers planning to catch the Ghost if it could have come out of the nebula at any point? Do they microjump? Are their sublight engines just that fast?
  • Where are the TIEs that should come out of the star destroyers to deal with the two Y-Wings?
  • Why don't the star destroyers use their own ion cannons?

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On 25.2.2017 at 7:20 AM, jmswood said:

This supposition does not hold up when compared to Catalyst, which describes Galen Erso's expreiments with Kyber Crystals. He manipulated the crystals with technology alone. Also, there are Vader's own words to consider, "Don't be so proud of this technological terror you've constructed."

Kyber Crystals are called living crystals for a reason, they themselves have the ability to draw from the force. There is no other explanation which would make sense in contest that the crystals can amplify energy by magnitudes. Which means as well that the death star is a force weapon, based on force technology. 

In other words, Galen Erso manipulates the cosmic force with technology alone. 

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6 hours ago, jmswood said:

Maybe she was a crossing guard before she joined the Rebellion? Or a farmer, like that kid that blew up the Death Star?

Doesn't matter. Why did she join the fight then if she believes they shouldn't fight?

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On 5.3.2017 at 7:19 AM, DarthEnderX said:

 

Moar Guns: Increase your primary weapon value by 1.

It's one of those things that doesn't make a ton of realistic sense.  They were already IN hyperspace.  LEFT hyperspace to fly through the Nebula.  Then reentered hyperspace when they escaped.

If you were already in hyperspace, why would you need to use a nebula to escape at all?  Unless there's an Interdictor in your path, being in hyperspace means you've already escaped!

Imagine the M3A with Moar Guns :D

Hyperspace and hyperspace routes had been mentioned before, even the space whales are enough to cause hyperspace accidents, so blocking the known routes is easy. And Hera just thought this smuggler route through the nebulae circumvented the imperial blockade of the common routes.  You don't blockage space, you block safe lanes which are far and few between.  Sure, you could try to jump the neighbor system to the top, which means in this case mostly flying back from where you came, transition trough that place and up in a system that has been blocked by star destroyers, maybe some gravity mines or just a few tractored in asteroides. 

 

On 5.3.2017 at 8:40 AM, DarthEnderX said:

Which is why you don't go past it at all.  It's space, you can go any direction you want.

But yeah, hyperspace routes or space lanes or some other such thing that's never really been mentioned before.  We all know it's just a plot device to get them to have a fight in a nebula.

Mentioned in iirc season one, the episode with the space whales. Hyperspace travel works along hyperspace lanes, the few and far between routes which had been charted by ships with ultra long-range sensors and a ton of micro jumps to make clear the way is clear. Star Wars ships don't have FTL sensors, especially non which are fast as their ships, so they can not scan for a clear path, nor is the space between systems explored to its entirely, not even all 400 billion star systems are cartographed.  

14 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

As a hyperspace obstacle, the nebula makes sense. It's an active stellar nursery, with at least one protostar in it - which is a very large mass. And as seen in the episode, if you dropped from hyperspace inside it, you might have a very bad day, so you obviously have to circumvent it. 

Stellar nurseries usually have several protostars, especially when they are as thick as this nebula. It makes sense to fly trough with sublights because your sensors are fast enough to avoid any larger objects, especially as other routes are blocked. 
One thing to note is that a civilized star system is completely cartographed, so jumping in that system freely with micro jumps makes sense, deactivating your security systems makes sense, but once you are in interstellar space most of space is uncharted and only the thin bands of the hyperspace routes are charted. Flying there without mass shadow warning systems becomes easily a lethal risk. As Hera said in S2E15 "The Call", the migrating Purrgil have killed many of her friends in hyperspace accidents when crossing the lanes. 

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59 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

 

  • Why two fighter-sized ion canons remove shields of a semi-capital ship? Because.
  • Why torpedoes have that effect on the nebula? Because.
  • Why the Y-Wings that blow up in the nebula don't have the same effect, even when they are loaded with torpedoes? Because.
  • Why all imperial capital ships have their shields down most of the time? Because.
  • A nebula is biiiig. How were the two star destroyers planning to catch the Ghost if it could have come out of the nebula at any point? Do they microjump? Are their sublight engines just that fast?
  • Where are the TIEs that should come out of the star destroyers to deal with the two Y-Wings?
  • Why don't the star destroyers use their own ion cannons?
  1. Two direct torpedos hits and a little fire from the Ghosts turrets blow up an Arquitens in one volley. 
  2. Because detonite or natural Baradium or some other funny explosive 
  3. The explosive of the proton torpedos might act as catalyst to something in the nebula
  4. Have they or are the shields just so weak? 
  5. Sub Lights seem to be that fast and the routes through the nebula that obvious, we see on Thrawn's map several segments of the nebula and one small obvious route through it, between two stars of the star nursery. Still super convenient, but not as "doh" as you make it seem. 
  6. The governour being an over-confident idiot again, but that is a annoying weakness of the series budget for a long time, having a hundred TIE-Fighters as welcome party would have been so cool. 
  7. That one makes okish sense, as Pryce has been shown as incompetent commander and the imperials not much in love for smart suggestions to your commanders. But it is definitely a screw up not to ionize your target before dragging it in with your tractor. 

Still, most of your points are relatively easy addressed, especially for a kids show with limited time and budget, that those points don't get addressed in the new movies drives me much more crazy, because those have the budget to show is a star destroyer having more than just a few TIEs. The irony that imperial forces are usually outnumbered in fighters starting from a new hope (8-12 TIEs vs 30 rebel fighters) and never ever giving up on that habit annoys me to no end. Especially in Rebels.  

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1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

Still, most of your points are relatively easy addressed, especially for a kids show with limited time and budget, that those points don't get addressed in the new movies drives me much more crazy, because those have the budget to show is a star destroyer having more than just a few TIEs. The irony that imperial forces are usually outnumbered in fighters starting from a new hope (8-12 TIEs vs 30 rebel fighters) and never ever giving up on that habit annoys me to no end. Especially in Rebels.  

I don't mind how easily addressed those points can be. My point is that they don't care to address any of them. Even when we can think on a logical explanation to each of them, nothing keeps them from contradicting any explanation at a later episode. I understand that the writers don't want to tie their hands with one explanation that might bite them later on. But you don't need to go to that extreme either. Just drop half a sentence here and there.

- Governor, we cannot release our TIE Fighters because of the nebula activity.

- Governor, our ion cannons would blow up the target after the damage they have suffered in the nebula, and we want them alive.

- Captain, our shields are still charging after exiting hyperspace, we are vulnerable to ion attacks.

I don't know. Something. Anything. 

A star destroyer should always be a formidable opponent to any rebel, and in this episode they didn't just deal with a TIE Defender, but also two star destroyers and one arquitens like it was nothing...

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17 hours ago, OneKelvin said:

Also you run into John's law (Engine fast enough to be interesting is powerful enough for use as a weapon.) in that if hyperdrive-equipped ships could be used as WMDs then the only civilian spacers would be pirates holding planets for ransom.

The hyperdrive lets you access a dimension or area of space where a little energy goes a long way. It doesn't allow multiplication of energy or violation of physical laws in real space.

Always thought that was the Kzinti from the Known Space novels (it's efficiency as a weapon is directly proportional to its efficiency as a drive) :)

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3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Kyber Crystals are called living crystals for a reason, they themselves have the ability to draw from the force. There is no other explanation which would make sense in contest that the crystals can amplify energy by magnitudes. Which means as well that the death star is a force weapon, based on force technology. 

In other words, Galen Erso manipulates the cosmic force with technology alone. 

I never even considered that before, but now you mention it does make a lot of sense

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3 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Jesus Christ guys can you just not be pedantic about these things for once?

Also, Through not thru.

I just saw this for the first time a week ago.

I even have an Enterprise model hanging in the same area relative to my desk.

I.....  need to get a life. :lol:

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1 hour ago, OneKelvin said:

I just saw this for the first time a week ago.

I even have an Enterprise model hanging in the same area relative to my desk.

I.....  need to get a life. :lol:

I have an Enterprise model roughly like that as well oh no. :D I live the life of boldly going to a galaxy far far away that no man has gone to before a long long time ago and im content.

Edited by Forresto

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6 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Yes but...unless the place your going is inside the nebula, why go through it at all?

You know what, it seriously doesn't matter.  It's one of those things where the writers just don't care, so there's no reason I should either.  It is what it is.

In both canons interstellar navigation is limited to scouted hyperlanes. Scouting new lanes is both time consuming and highly dangerous so ships follow scouted routes that are known to be mostly safe. It works a lot like a European road network, built as needed with minimal foreplanning and lots of routes of varying quality and length to the same destination.

You're right, you could go around the nebula by taking hyperspace routes that bypass it. They chose the nebula route because it was fast, little travelled and the nebula provides an obstacle they can move through but pursuing capital ships cannot. If it weren't for Thrawn the Empire may never have thought to go there to intercept them at all.


Didn't I already say all that?

Quote

The thing is that they have not bothered to explain how hyperspace works. We have those lanes, interdictors, ships jumping from the planets' atmospheres, blockades... All of that is just thrown into the dialog, but not really explained.

It'd be pretty poor writing if every time a ship went to hyperspace they did a full exposition dump. They explain enough to understand what's going on and if you want the details you look them up.

Quote

Before, you couldn't communicate with a ship in hyperspace. The ground team sent to destroy the shield in ROTJ could see the rebel fleet coming from hyperspace, but couldn't warn them that the shield was still up.

"But how could they be jamming us if they don't know that we're coming?"

Quote

Since the Clone Warries, everyone can talk to everyone, hyperspace or not. So what happened there? 

No comms in hyperspace was an EU thing that Clone Wars and Rogue One did away with.

Quote

In Rebels and in Rogue One, they arbitrarily change course in the middle of hyperspace. So you seem to be able to change lane or direction somehow. They don't care to explain it.s se

They don't. In Rebels they drop a ship from a ship in hyperspace. In Rogue One the scene isn't continous: they could easily drop out, replot and jump again. Given hyperspace travel is along a network of scouted routes they probably have to do that a few times anyway.

Quote

Why did Hera decide to go thru the Nebula when she could have just jumped into any other direction, then change course? Why do they need to cross the nebula in real space instead of just circumvent it? They don't care to explain it.

They could have taken another route but they judged the nebula route gave them their best chance.

Again, hyperspace travel is limited to scouted routes. Think of it as a huge road network where if you go offroad you probably die and you have to drop out of hyperspace at junctions. There's a finite number of routes the Ghost could have taken and all factors they considered the nebula their best shot.
 

 

Edited by Blue Five

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6 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Jesus Christ guys can you just not be pedantic about these things for once?

Also, Through not thru.

Is that irony?  Asking people not to be pedantic and then being a pedant?  Please tell me you were actively kidding and not that obtuse?

and I know you like to think of this thread and content as "yours" but why does this bother you so much? It's healthy, lively debate about a shared subject we all love, showing the passion. I also don't care for the lengthy discissions around fake-tech so I just skip them, same as I skip prequel bashing, and contribute to the points I do enjoy. 

This is what a forum is for, why can't you relax and enjoy it for what it is? 

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