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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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4 hours ago, Blue Five said:

I doubt you can steer in hyperspace, always seems to be a straight line. 

Yeah, but you used to basically be able to jump anywhere in a system(or even outside a system) if you wanted.  If there's a nebula between you and your destination, you jump to a different system that doesn't have a nebula in the way, then jump again.  You don't fly through the nebula.

The idea that the Empire could blockade just...space, is ridiculous.  Sure, you could blockcade a planet(and even that shouldn't be possible now that Rogue One showed us you can jump to hyperspace right from the surface of a planet).  But blocking and entire sector is nonsense because space has no walls, you can go in literally any direction to get away from the enemy.

Like I said, there's obviously a lot more limitations on where you can and can't jump to now.  Which I'm okay with, I just wish they'd explain it.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Like I said, there's obviously a lot more limitations on where you can and can't jump to now.  Which I'm okay with, I just wish they'd explain it.

Apparently fewer limitations. The old canon was mostly consistent in that gravity well = mass shadow in hyperspace = can't jump and it mostly kept to that. Can't jump out of a mass shadow, get pulled out if you go into a mass shadow. There's a really daft piece of old canon lore where a Venator accidentally hyperspaces into a Quarren shipyard world. It hits it with the full momentum of something moving at that speed in normal space and causes an extinction level event. If you can do that then everyone would be packing hyperspace mass drivers rather than dinky little lasers.

The new canon seems to have done away with that limitation: you can go to hyperspace in atmosphere now, it's just absurdly risky and doesn't do your ship any good. The way you get something to leave hyperspace now is to physically impede it. Regular tractor beams can pull ships out of hyperspace if they hit: problem is the chance of that is like the chance of shooting a bullet out the air from ten miles away with a rusty howitzer. Interdictors are effectively wide AoE tractor beams now.

Where both canons do match is intersystem hyperspace navigation: in interstellar space you're effectively restricted to scouted hyperspace routes. The Hydian Way is a hyperlane: a heavily mapped out and fairly safe hyperspace route across the galaxy. The best analogy is a road network: you can go wherever you want as long as you don't go offroad because if you go offroad you hit things. Charting hyperspace routes is a very dangerous profession. And like a road network there are plenty of routes to the same destination. Some take longer than others.

This actually comes up in the episode: Thrawn's looking at a map to work out where they're going and predicts they'll take the nebula route because it's little travelled and pursuing capital ships can't follow them in there. The Ghost is about the biggest thing that can safely go in there: the Arquitens doesn't risk it.

Edited by Blue Five

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6 minutes ago, Blue Five said:

Apparently fewer limitations.

It's one fewer limitation, with apparently countless new ones.

Yeah, you can jump while near a planet now, but you can't jump ANYWHERE IN THE GALAXY anymore like you could before.

In terms of where you can and can't jump, it's still way more limited now than it was before.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Actually, the oldest "rules" of Hyperspace (from WEG RPG materials, which inspired a lot of the EU) is that technically you may jump right up into or out of a gravity well - however to do so requires disabling or ignoring safety systems mounted on the hyperdrive, and this means you're very carefully manually handling something which normally requires a lot of math to do - it would be very easy to "miss" the mass shadow and accidentally smack into a mass which would "end your trip real quick". The lack of ability to jump into/out of a gravity well was not noted in the OT. The original EU kind of drifted this into "you can't leave or enter a mass shadow period" - but since the current Lucasfilm appears to employ a few people from the WEG days (like Pablo Hidalgo) and obviously is no longer bound by that thread of canon drift, and have gone back to an even older rule. So clever and desperate pilots like Han Solo and Cassian Andor can make these dangerous jumps - but normal people probably don't bother. Because it's supposed to be crazy dangerous. 

As a hyperspace obstacle, the nebula makes sense. It's an active stellar nursery, with at least one protostar in it - which is a very large mass. And as seen in the episode, if you dropped from hyperspace inside it, you might have a very bad day, so you obviously have to circumvent it. 

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In the old canon the reason the Empire didn't reconquer Mon Calamari is because the Mon Cals filled every known hyperspace route into their space with mines then at immense danger to themselves scouted out a new route for the

In TCW, which is in the both canons the whole Citadel arc is about retrieving information on some hyperspace routes. I'm fairly sure the TCW film is about getting access to Hutt hyperlanes to maneuver through as well.

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Actually, the oldest "rules" of Hyperspace (from WEG RPG materials, which inspired a lot of the EU) is that technically you may jump right up into or out of a gravity well - however to do so requires disabling or ignoring safety systems mounted on the hyperdrive, and this means you're very carefully manually handling something which normally requires a lot of math to do - it would be very easy to "miss" the mass shadow and accidentally smack into a mass which would "end your trip real quick".

WEG also introduced the Interdictor. I'm intrigued as to how they made it work if mass shadows aren't hyperspace blockers.

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 Concerning mass shadows and hyperdrives: stopping Lightspeed travel when a mass shadow was detected in the ship's path was a safety feature that could be bypassed by hacking into the ship's systems.  It isn't advisable but it is possible, just not safe at all.  I don't know the NuCanon stance on mass shadows and whatnot but I suspect Rebels may have rutinely set up bypass switches on their hyperdrives to escape or run thru blockades.

 

Admiral Daala's plan to crash an ISD into Coruscant back in the 90s EU era was basically a highly kinetic version of the old Gundam Colony Drop that only works when planetary shields are weak or are not set up because the planet defenses are not alert. Of course the wanton destruction of entire planets as seen throughout SW is the ultimate form of Scorched Earth warfare and if it is practiced on truely large scales there will be nothing left in the galaxy to fight for.  Sure you can Base Delta Zero every planet that tries to rebel or crash capital ships (or better yet just planetoids with hyperdrives attached) into planets until their shields go down and doomsday happens on every imperial world but Mutually Assured Destuction doesn't make for a fun story.

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2 minutes ago, Blue Five said:

In the old canon the reason the Empire didn't reconquer Mon Calamari is because the Mon Cals filled every known hyperspace route into their space with mines then at immense danger to themselves scouted out a new route for the

In TCW, which is in the both canons the whole Citadel arc is about retrieving information on some hyperspace routes. I'm fairly sure the TCW film is about getting access to Hutt hyperlanes to maneuver through as well.

WEG also introduced the Interdictor. I'm intrigued as to how they made it work if mass shadows aren't hyperspace blockers.

See the above posts on Hyperdrive Safety Features.

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See the above posts on Hyperdrive Safety Features.

Which means you could escape an Interdictor by turning them off. If all an Interdictor did was confuse the navicomp the Rebels would rapidly have found a workaround. Got the impression WEG was more through than that: all the inconsistencies from what I've seen were external.

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Admiral Daala's plan to crash an ISD into Coruscant back in the 90s EU era was basically a highly kinetic version of the old Gundam Colony Drop that only works when planetary shields are weak or are not set up because the planet defenses are not alert.

Best explanation for why there are no hyperspace mass drivers is because hyperspace doesn't work like that: travelling in hyperspace doesn't involve equivalent momentum to sublight. Otherwise dropping out of hyperspace would kill you. Hit something? You get forced out of hyperspace and hit it with sublight force.

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Also you run into John's law (Engine fast enough to be interesting is powerful enough for use as a weapon.) in that if hyperdrive-equipped ships could be used as WMDs then the only civilian spacers would be pirates holding planets for ransom.

The hyperdrive lets you access a dimension or area of space where a little energy goes a long way. It doesn't allow multiplication of energy or violation of physical laws in real space.

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I've got to say watching the episode again I REALLY liked the brief conversation between Zeb and the pilot who is probably Norra Wexly (AKA mom of Snap Wexly who is Poe Dameron's buddy X-Wing pilot in the Force Awakens.) and I wish they had made that scene longer.

Essentially to me the bit reinforced the concept that victory has consequences, one I believe should always be true when a conflict is so asymmetrical as the Rebels is against the Empire. Sure they blew up Tarkin's Star Destroyer but I imagine that just like any other oppressive regime in real world history the Imperials took revenge on innocent civilians.

For instance I just watched a movie (Anthropoid) about the real historical assassination of the Nazi Reinhard Heydrich, architect of the final solution. After he died from his wounds the Nazis wiped out a whole bunch of Czechoslovakian villages in revenge killing a lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with the assassination attempt. In rebels they talked about the security cordon being tightened throughout the entire Outer Rim. Same thing happened in Prague in real life after the assassination and a lot of people died as a result. 

I don't mean to trivialize the real life tragedies inflicted by the Nazis but to me seeing Anthropoid and subsequently reading up on the history and then Rebels, it allowed me to appreciate a lot of the sub text in this episode.   

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I'm just gonna say that blockading an entire sector is 100% feasible. Think about it. Hyperspace lanes are safe pre-plotted routes approved by either an overlying or local government. Using anything outside of these lanes is dangerous and noteworthy, so if something comes in outside of the lane, it is suddenly quite suspect.

 

As an Elite: Dangerous player, I'm very glad "Supercruise" exists. Because were it not for Supercruise, I'd have to come into every system at the Nav Beacon located a few dozen Light Seconds away from the local star. Here's the thing, in Star Wars you re-enter realspace as you come out of Hyperspace. What does this mean?

It means that at the end of the figurative highway, just a few clicks out you'll see whatever's blockading the area.

"What if you come from another direction?"

Sure, you can do that. But part of a blockade is making sure every entry is closed off. So if there are seven ways into one system that have been pre-plotted, you place the appropriate forces at all seven entryways.

"But if you jump in outside of the lanes-"

You'll get reported. Every single hyperspace lane we've seen thus far, every single checkpoint, has asked for ID. We can clearly imagine that this ID is then transmitted to local governments, putting you on the system arrival registry. This is why it's not hard to get landing clearance once you enter a system legally.
 

This is also why The Rebels constantly travel away from the Hyperspace lanes.

 

Hyperspace lanes have always made sense, have always been enforceable, have always had workarounds with drawbacks and have never been silly.

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18 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

It's one of those things that doesn't make a ton of realistic sense.  They were already IN hyperspace.  LEFT hyperspace to fly through the Nebula.  Then reentered hyperspace when they escaped.

If you were already in hyperspace, why would you need to use a nebula to escape at all?  Unless there's an Interdictor in your path, being in hyperspace means you've already escaped!

Because the nebula acts enough like a planet or star to present a significant navigation hazzard. In fact: that nebula was said to have a couple stars forming within it. That makes it a bit more tricky to fly through. 

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2 hours ago, Forresto said:

I've got to say watching the episode again I REALLY liked the brief conversation between Zeb and the pilot who is probably Norra Wexly (AKA mom of Snap Wexly who is Poe Dameron's buddy X-Wing pilot in the Force Awakens.) and I wish they had made that scene longer.

Essentially to me the bit reinforced the concept that victory has consequences, one I believe should always be true when a conflict is so asymmetrical as the Rebels is against the Empire. Sure they blew up Tarkin's Star Destroyer but I imagine that just like any other oppressive regime in real world history the Imperials took revenge on innocent civilians.

For instance I just watched a movie (Anthropoid) about the real historical assassination of the Nazi Reinhard Heydrich, architect of the final solution. After he died from his wounds the Nazis wiped out a whole bunch of Czechoslovakian villages in revenge killing a lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with the assassination attempt. In rebels they talked about the security cordon being tightened throughout the entire Outer Rim. Same thing happened in Prague in real life after the assassination and a lot of people died as a result. 

I don't mean to trivialize the real life tragedies inflicted by the Nazis but to me seeing Anthropoid and subsequently reading up on the history and then Rebels, it allowed me to appreciate a lot of the sub text in this episode.   

Norra's first time as a fighter pilot was 6 years later.

I have nothing against the concept of the Empire punishing civilians for the actions of Rebels, but the accusations sound really stupid coming from a goddamn Rebel bomber pilot. What the hell, lady, what do YOU do in the Rebellion? Help farmers during the harvest or escort children on their way to school?

Edited by eMeM

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