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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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What's great about it is that Hondo probably has all that space inside the ship taken up already.

 

So his solution was to strap more onto the outside. Speaking of which...

 

Who else is confused about the fact that the Imperial Cargo ship appears to carry LOTS of cargo containers, but it's all actually one big lumpy box?

 

That bothers the hell out of me!

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I do like that if you remove the cargo containers, the Class 4 Container Transport follows the same wedge design philosophy as the rest of the Imperial fleet.  Realizing that, I forgive it for not being the Bulk Freighter. 

 

Who else is confused about the fact that the Imperial Cargo ship appears to carry LOTS of cargo containers, but it's all actually one big lumpy box?

Hmm, it does seem that way because of the way that loading bay was the size of multiple containers. But the wiki claims that's not the case.

It might just be that there's a core through the middle that's not containers.  Which seems likely, considering the wiki says it carries up to 126 containers.  But you can clearly see that it has 7x6x5, which should be 210.

 

Edit:  Actually, you can totally see that this is the case in an earlier episode.

V2uAIUX.png

 

If you only count the outside containers, it comes to 126.

 

That said, the transport in the previous episode did not have the rear loading bay or extra panel of engines at the back that the one in this episode did.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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I do like that if you remove the cargo containers, the Class 4 Container Transport follows the same wedge design philosophy as the rest of the Imperial fleet.  Realizing that, I forgive it for not being the Bulk Freighter. 

 

Who else is confused about the fact that the Imperial Cargo ship appears to carry LOTS of cargo containers, but it's all actually one big lumpy box?

Hmm, it does seem that way because of the way that loading bay was the size of multiple containers. But the wiki claims that's not the case.

It might just be that there's a core through the middle that's not containers.  Which seems likely, considering the wiki says it carries up to 126 containers.  But you can clearly see that it has 7x6x5, which should be 210.

 

Edit:  Actually, you can totally see that this is the case in an earlier episode.

V2uAIUX.png

 

If you only count the outside containers, it comes to 126.

 

That said, the transport in the previous episode did not have the rear loading bay or extra panel of engines at the back that the one in this episode did.

It doesn't stop there though. What's pictured there didn't even match the interior of the cargo bay. See, when Chopper disengaged it, sans airlock, one would expect those Stormtroopers properly spaced right?

 

...Except they weren't, because the room that they were in simply does not exist in that massive void shown in that picture.

I really love the design and I really love this series, but this cargo transport has always really bothered me because of that discrepancy.

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Using droids as the core of your army might be problematic from the PR point of view because of the Clone Wars.

 

Eh, I'll take it. Kinda. Sorta. As much as the Empire cares for PR...

 

 

They do care about PR.  

 

But not in the "let's make everything happy" kind of way, which is often assumed about PR.....

 

 

Rule By Fear is very much a Public Relations Situation, after all...     Its creating and crafting exactly the way you want to be presented to the masses.

 

 

I stand corrected, but that doesn't validate using combat droids only in minor roles. If anything emotionless combat robots support the rule by fear.

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Somebody mentioned makimg characters face adveristy and I have to laugh. Look I enjoy this show greatly. However there's not that much true threat from any of the antagonists. The rebels always escape unscathed. Honestly I think Game of Thrones and Walking Dead spoiled me because I genuinely feel tense watching new episodes of either show, less so Walking Dead now a days but point remains.

I think the writers, and many writers of Star Wars forget, is that the Empire needs to have their glory moments. That scene where Poe and the resistance come in and rescue Finn and crew and wreck the First Order, we need scenes like that for the bad guys. Thrawn is fine if he pays off, ik not bothered by him because he's not going to come into true play until the season finale.

I know this is a kids show but thats where I will bring up Avatar the Last Airbender, the perfect example of a kids show that demonstrates how tenuous the protsgonists situation really is. The show also is mature enough it appeals to adults as well, as in the show transcends simply being something for kids and genuinely can appeal to all ages. Sure theres war and violence but theres character growth and humor. Thats Star Wars in a nutshell. We get that with Rebels in doses but I cant help but feel frustrated with the writers.

Characters do need adversity, specially if they are facing overwhelming odds - the problem is that in a kid's show you can kill all of them (like in GoT) and need to usually finish the episodes in a happy ending....

 

The best Star Wars film to date is The Empire Strikes Back, and that's where the mighty Empire shows a minimum of efficiency.

 

I hope Thrawn redeems himself (and justify all this apparent planning) by destroying half of the Rebel fleet at the end of the season. And I hope in the final moment he loses not because of a bad tactic, but because of some event he couldn't predict. (and escapes his burning Star Destroyer in an Assault Gunboat)  

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I just want a major character to die f**king horribly.

Let Sabine get caught with a stray blaster shot, have a tearjerking goodbye, and let he be shot 20odd times by BASIC STORMTROOPER MOOKS! Better yet, let her do a Kat*!

 

That'd make my year.

 

 

I want it shown that in a war good people f**king die.

It's not all glib comments and fun. It's s**t happening, and s**t gets real.

 

It can be done well in a kids show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Halo Reach.

Edited by DariusAPB

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I just want a major character to die f**king horribly.

Let Sabine get caught with a stray blaster shot, have a tearjerking goodbye, and let he be shot 20odd times by BASIC STORMTROOPER MOOKS! Better yet, let her do a Kat*!

 

That'd make my year.

 

 

I want it shown that in a war good people f**king die.

It's not all glib comments and fun. It's s**t happening, and s**t gets real.

 

It can be done well in a kids show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Halo Reach.

Yikes, you're out for blood aren't you? Well don't hold your breath, it's unlikely you're going to see any "horrible" deaths of main characters on this show. Not even the Imperials or other villains of the show suffer what could be considered "horrible" deaths.

 

You know... none of the main heroes of the original trilogy died (in the OT) and I don't see anyone calling for Leia or Chewbacca's blood. And the dangers they went up against were no less serious or dangerous than what the crew of the Ghost goes up against. I don't know why anyone would want to see likeable characters of a show die. Maybe it's the Game of Thrones syndrome or something.

 

Also to note, they aren't really fighting a war per say. All that they've done throughout the series is go on team missions, even after joining the larger Rebellion. There aren't war battles in Rebels like there were in Clone Wars because that's not what the show is about, and the Rebellion isn't ready for a war yet. They've made small strikes here and there. The closest thing to real battles in Rebels has always had the Rebels trying to escape the Empire (or run a small blockade in that one episode of season 2).

Edited by Derpzilla88

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Droids are effective and cheap but can be countered very hard by anti-droid weaponary, something the galaxy is full of thanks to the Clone Wars. They work best as suplementary troops in this era.

I would also bet it's cheaper to hand a guy a blaster and some armor, than build and program a droid.

 

But it takes more time to train them than to build the droid. Its the whole argument between cheap droid soldiers that can be built by the millions but are limited in what they can do or well trained soldiers that take a long time to train. The Clone Troopers received great training but were still beaten by droids if they were attacked in large enough numbers.

normally yea, training would take longer, but apparently stormtroopers don't get very good training. Only certain units do.

I get that and I think you're right but I sortve hate that. This is why as much as I disliked the way Imperial Army Troops in the EU looked, kinda lame, at least they were the poorly trained grunts that garrisoned planets. Stormtroopers were elite troops that were a threat.

I really wished Rebels had introduced army troopers, maybe make them look like less armored stormtroopers, that couldve been used as the cannon fodder.

I just think the idea that the Empire mass manufactures stormtroopers for quantity and not quality, like Ties, just doesnt feel right. Whatever I guess thats the new canon

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The Ashoka novel expresses some of the Empire's haste to deploy officers and Stormtroopers within a year of the Clone Wars ending. These recruits were green, but necessary. The Emperor had to phase out the rapidly aging clones and couldn't drum up a droid army after he just consolidated power by defeating one. He needs the new recruits for two reasons: rapidly replace the clone army and contribute to a sense of galactic nationalism on the worlds that are placated rather than dominated.

The Stormtroopers being rookies in Ashoka makes sense. Rebels happens years later, the Stormtrooper corps should be a veteran fighting force by then. The Stormtroopers of Rebels are incompetent because it helps the good guys win, and occasionally because it's funny.

Edited by jmswood

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Droids are effective and cheap but can be countered very hard by anti-droid weaponary, something the galaxy is full of thanks to the Clone Wars. They work best as suplementary troops in this era.

I would also bet it's cheaper to hand a guy a blaster and some armor, than build and program a droid.
 

But it takes more time to train them than to build the droid. Its the whole argument between cheap droid soldiers that can be built by the millions but are limited in what they can do or well trained soldiers that take a long time to train. The Clone Troopers received great training but were still beaten by droids if they were attacked in large enough numbers.

normally yea, training would take longer, but apparently stormtroopers don't get very good training. Only certain units do.

I get that and I think you're right but I sortve hate that. This is why as much as I disliked the way Imperial Army Troops in the EU looked, kinda lame, at least they were the poorly trained grunts that garrisoned planets. Stormtroopers were elite troops that were a threat.

I really wished Rebels had introduced army troopers, maybe make them look like less armored stormtroopers, that couldve been used as the cannon fodder.

I just think the idea that the Empire mass manufactures stormtroopers for quantity and not quality, like Ties, just doesnt feel right. Whatever I guess thats the new canon

 

Stormtroopers have always been cannon fodder in Star Wars in both the new and old canon. They practically defined the word "cannon fodder". The Imperial Army Troopers rarely ever showed up in comics or books (I'm a bit ashamed as a long-time Star Wars fan that I had never even heard of the Imperial Army Troops until seeing them mentioned here on the FFG forums), and I can only ever remember stormtroopers being used as the foot soldiers of the Empire in every media form of Star Wars, not as their elite. Specialized stormtrooper corps always seemed to make up the elites of their ranks.

 

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Hondo's Sentinel in full glory:

reb_ca_1909_d26936a0.jpeg

 

This is brilliant!  :o  :wub: - not seen the episode, but something to look forward to at DVD release  ;)

 

...now, I feel another freighter build/paintjob on its way  :rolleyes:

 

When I saw this episode I said aloud "SWX58? ... is that you?" 

 

 

No, we need the Imperial version first, then the Scum can get their pimped out one. That said I'm open to any Cygnus Spaceworks crafts. 

 

The Ashoka novel expresses some of the Empire's haste to deploy officers and Stormtroopers within a year of the Clone Wars ending. These recruits were green, but necessary. The Emperor had to phase out the rapidly aging clones and couldn't drum up a droid army after he just consolidated power by defeating one. He needs the new recruits for two reasons: rapidly replace the clone army and contribute to a sense of galactic nationalism on the worlds that are placated rather than dominated.

The Stormtroopers being rookies in Ashoka makes sense. Rebels happens years later, the Stormtrooper corps should be a veteran fighting force by then. The Stormtroopers of Rebels are incompetent because it helps the good guys win, and occasionally because it's funny.

 

While it is true they are incompetent to help the good guys, I would have to ask who are the stormtroopers fighting in the years leading up to the galactic civil war? You might have some fight a couple pirates here and there, or maybe a small rebel cell, but for the most part they are going into a situation where they are parked off shore twenty feet away with guns that shoot that far and the other side is on the shore with guns that can only shoot eighteen feet away. 

 

The stormtroopers were more a force for keeping the systems in line through fear, and for the most part are without any actual combat experience before the war starts. And as much as I like the idea of the stormtroopers being capable of being an actual threat I'd imagine the worst quality stormtroopers are stationed on Outer Rim worlds like we see in Rebels and most of the other Star Wars films. Though if the plot needs actually competent soldier the stormtroopers will do well, if they need cannon fodder for the heroes then they will likewise become as such.

Edited by Animewarsdude

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The Stormtroopers being rookies in Ashoka makes sense. Rebels happens years later, the Stormtrooper corps should be a veteran fighting force by then.

You're only a veteran fighting force if your force is made up of mostly veterans.

 

Stormtroopers have such a high turnover rate and mediocre training overall that there's no way the majority of the force is comprised of veteran troops.  And those that do reach veteran status probably get transferred to other more prestigious postings.  Like Death Troopers or Royal Guard or other Elite units.

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I just want a major character to die f**king horribly.

Let Sabine get caught with a stray blaster shot, have a tearjerking goodbye, and let he be shot 20odd times by BASIC STORMTROOPER MOOKS! Better yet, let her do a Kat*!

 

That'd make my year.

 

 

I want it shown that in a war good people f**king die.

It's not all glib comments and fun. It's s**t happening, and s**t gets real.

 

It can be done well in a kids show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Halo Reach.

Yikes, you're out for blood aren't you? Well don't hold your breath, it's unlikely you're going to see any "horrible" deaths of main characters on this show. Not even the Imperials or other villains of the show suffer what could be considered "horrible" deaths.

 

You know... none of the main heroes of the original trilogy died (in the OT) and I don't see anyone calling for Leia or Chewbacca's blood. And the dangers they went up against were no less serious or dangerous than what the crew of the Ghost goes up against. I don't know why anyone would want to see likeable characters of a show die. Maybe it's the Game of Thrones syndrome or something.

 

Also to note, they aren't really fighting a war per say. All that they've done throughout the series is go on team missions, even after joining the larger Rebellion. There aren't war battles in Rebels like there were in Clone Wars because that's not what the show is about, and the Rebellion isn't ready for a war yet. They've made small strikes here and there. The closest thing to real battles in Rebels has always had the Rebels trying to escape the Empire (or run a small blockade in that one episode of season 2).

 

 

Chewie has already died once!!!

In the ST Han's already died, I am sure there will be more.

Anyway the point is, not even the annoying side characters are karking it, except for Phoenix squadron clones, and those are glossed over constantly.

 

Sorry but there should be consequences.

At least Sato.

 

Also Sabine annoys me, so, there's that.

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Droids are effective and cheap but can be countered very hard by anti-droid weaponary, something the galaxy is full of thanks to the Clone Wars. They work best as suplementary troops in this era.

I would also bet it's cheaper to hand a guy a blaster and some armor, than build and program a droid.
 

But it takes more time to train them than to build the droid. Its the whole argument between cheap droid soldiers that can be built by the millions but are limited in what they can do or well trained soldiers that take a long time to train. The Clone Troopers received great training but were still beaten by droids if they were attacked in large enough numbers.

normally yea, training would take longer, but apparently stormtroopers don't get very good training. Only certain units do.

I get that and I think you're right but I sortve hate that. This is why as much as I disliked the way Imperial Army Troops in the EU looked, kinda lame, at least they were the poorly trained grunts that garrisoned planets. Stormtroopers were elite troops that were a threat.

I really wished Rebels had introduced army troopers, maybe make them look like less armored stormtroopers, that couldve been used as the cannon fodder.

I just think the idea that the Empire mass manufactures stormtroopers for quantity and not quality, like Ties, just doesnt feel right. Whatever I guess thats the new canon

 

Stormtroopers have always been cannon fodder in Star Wars in both the new and old canon. They practically defined the word "cannon fodder". The Imperial Army Troopers rarely ever showed up in comics or books (I'm a bit ashamed as a long-time Star Wars fan that I had never even heard of the Imperial Army Troops until seeing them mentioned here on the FFG forums), and I can only ever remember stormtroopers being used as the foot soldiers of the Empire in every media form of Star Wars, not as their elite. Specialized stormtrooper corps always seemed to make up the elites of their ranks.

 

 

 

I disagree. Stormtroopers have ALWAYS been excellent soldiers when up against rebels and other good guy background characters. Stormtroopers only ever suck when fighting the heroes because of plot armor. Take the beginning of ANH where the Stormtroopers decimate the rebels and then the way other characters treat them such as Obi Wan. "And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

 

The whole not being able to hit a target again comes from the plot armor of the main characters. When you look at scenes with rebels they're just as "horrible shots". So the joke is honestly something that irritates me because its inaccurate and it's become so ingrained that we're seeing it pop up in the new canon. 

 

You don't control the galaxy with poorly trained soldiers and ultimately investing as much money and resources to producing a badly trained army is not cost effective. It also doesn't make any sense. Look at the British Empire and the skill and training of the British troops. Look at the German Army from which the Imperials are mostly based. The Empire would actually need highly trained soldiers to hold territory in a galaxy largely hostile to them.

 

You only control through fear if there's something to fear and if Stormtroopers were as incompetent as Rebels makes them out to be, much more of the galaxy would be resisting Imperial rule.  

Edited by Forresto

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Talk about "Stormtroopers being an elite fighting force" was barely even supported in the old EU. West End Games made that declaration, but every other source we've seen just has stormtrooper = policeman/infantryman, with varying levels of quality depending on the regiment involved. Most seem like they're just cops with the armor serving as combination badge and uniform. Others are actually combat-trained and highly motivated.

 

I wish people would stop bringing up this argument. It's wrong on a canonical level and on a logical level. Which is easier, training millions or billions of soldiers and then putting some on ships and some on the ground, or manufacturing a ton of shiny white armor and spreading it around to anyone you need to look like they're in authority?

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Droids are effective and cheap but can be countered very hard by anti-droid weaponary, something the galaxy is full of thanks to the Clone Wars. They work best as suplementary troops in this era.

I would also bet it's cheaper to hand a guy a blaster and some armor, than build and program a droid.
 

But it takes more time to train them than to build the droid. Its the whole argument between cheap droid soldiers that can be built by the millions but are limited in what they can do or well trained soldiers that take a long time to train. The Clone Troopers received great training but were still beaten by droids if they were attacked in large enough numbers.

normally yea, training would take longer, but apparently stormtroopers don't get very good training. Only certain units do.

I get that and I think you're right but I sortve hate that. This is why as much as I disliked the way Imperial Army Troops in the EU looked, kinda lame, at least they were the poorly trained grunts that garrisoned planets. Stormtroopers were elite troops that were a threat.

I really wished Rebels had introduced army troopers, maybe make them look like less armored stormtroopers, that couldve been used as the cannon fodder.

I just think the idea that the Empire mass manufactures stormtroopers for quantity and not quality, like Ties, just doesnt feel right. Whatever I guess thats the new canon

 

Stormtroopers have always been cannon fodder in Star Wars in both the new and old canon. They practically defined the word "cannon fodder". The Imperial Army Troopers rarely ever showed up in comics or books (I'm a bit ashamed as a long-time Star Wars fan that I had never even heard of the Imperial Army Troops until seeing them mentioned here on the FFG forums), and I can only ever remember stormtroopers being used as the foot soldiers of the Empire in every media form of Star Wars, not as their elite. Specialized stormtrooper corps always seemed to make up the elites of their ranks.

 

 

 

I disagree. Stormtroopers have ALWAYS been excellent soldiers when up against rebels and other good guy background characters. Stormtroopers only ever suck when fighting the heroes because of plot armor. Take the beginning of ANH where the Stormtroopers decimate the rebels and then the way other characters treat them such as Obi Wan. "And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

 

The whole not being able to hit a target again comes from the plot armor of the main characters. When you look at scenes with rebels they're just as "horrible shots". So the joke is honestly something that irritates me because its inaccurate and it's become so ingrained that we're seeing it pop up in the new canon. 

 

You don't control the galaxy with poorly trained soldiers and ultimately investing as much money and resources to producing a badly trained army is not cost effective. It also doesn't make any sense. Look at the British Empire and the skill and training of the British troops. Look at the German Army from which the Imperials are mostly based. The Empire would actually need highly trained soldiers to hold territory in a galaxy largely hostile to them.

 

You only control through fear if there's something to fear and if Stormtroopers were as incompetent as Rebels makes them out to be, much more of the galaxy would be resisting Imperial rule.  

 

yea, I was ok with stormtroopers being terrbile as a joke, but now that's it kind of a canon thing, its so sad.  :(

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Even Rex's taunt supports it:

Rex:  "I hope you have a better class of soldier than those 'Stormtroopers'..."

 

Kallus:  "They serve the Empire Well...  And I have a Great Many of them..."

 

That's what i'm saying though. The new canon is beginning to portray them that way and i'm staunchly against that. However the statement could easily be translated as Kallus having a disregard for his men's lives.

 

No fighting force in history has ever successfully conquered and maintained a massive Empire with vast armies of basically civilians in armor with guns and next to no training. What many empires did was have a core of highly trained or experienced troops supplemented by inferior troops that would either be used as cannon fodder or to bulk up numbers. Colonial Empires supplemented their armies with local conscripts and recruits that would help enforce colonial rule over distant territories. Why would the Galactic Empire be any different?

 

At this point in the new canon Stormtroopers might as well be battle droids but with the large downside you have to feed them, appease their needs and desires in order to keep order amongst the ranks, and replace them as they age out. Having to supply an organic army of poorly trained troops is incredibly stupid. If you're going organic then you train your troops well.      

 

I just got finished reading the Thrawn Trilogy and in that Zahn gave I think the best portrayal of the Imperial Forces in any SW book or spinoff. Stormtroopers were highly trained and indoctrinated troops that supplemented the regular army troopers. The regular army acted in the way stormtroopers are now. Cannon fodder that are unarmored conscripts largely that garrison Imperial held worlds and maintained order. The stormtroopers are more specialized and while not commandos were more of a threat.

 

More so then anything it makes the Empire exactly the same as the orc armies from Lord of the Rings and every other franchise from LOTR to Marvel to GI Joe where the bad guys basically rely on high numbers to overwhelm the hyper specialized or experienced heroes. It's not unique and not story telling I enjoy. I don't mean to derail the thread from the show but Rebels is guilty of making the Imperials insanely idiotic and i'm just not a fan. I like the show a bunch don't get me wrong but its one of its many problems. 

Edited by Forresto

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