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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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Soooo.... Every Imperial Transport has very effective, unstoppable killer robots aboard? Why the hell do they depend on storm troopers so heavily then?

And didn't the rebels capture one of those transports? Did they not come across the Sentry Droid?

...

Other than what they did to the dark troopers it was a fun filled episode... I would actually say I enjoyed it more than recent episodes which have felt either rushed or empty.

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Soooo.... Every Imperial Transport has very effective, unstoppable killer robots aboard? Why the hell do they depend on storm troopers so heavily then?

And didn't the rebels capture one of those transports? Did they not come across the Sentry Droid?

I feel like this one was supposed to be an automated transport. On autopilot, with only droid security(who were little more than reskinned Super Battle Droids). Edited by DarthEnderX

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Can people please stop using the phrase "filler" to describe episodes of Rebels? Sure, there may be occassional scenes of filler in an episode, but anyone who pays any attention would realize every single episode has an impact on the overall story of the series. There are no filler episodes in Rebels.

Edited by Underachiever599

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Can people please stop using the phrase "filler" to describe episodes of Rebels? Sure, there may be occassional scenes of filler in an episode, but anyone who pays any attention would realize every single episode has an impact on the overall story of the series. There are no filler episodes in Rebels.

I hate the term "filler" in general. I get if it is recap episode, but for other episodes, its just silly. Your basically slamming the writers for developing characters rather than making huge advancments in the plot.

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Filler episodes do not advance the overall plot in any way, or repeats a previous plot point already established.
 
This isn't necessarily a strike against it; for example, the Naruto anime had some fine filler in it (but that might be because the only interesting characters are the secondary characters!) and one of my favorite Clone Wars episodes (Cloak of Darkness) has no impact on the story whatsoever. But 2-3 of the Darkness on Umbara arc (which I keep bringing up) is an ideal example of filler. The plot point repeated is exactly the same one at the end of episode 1: The Jedi is a bad guy who's trying to make his side lose, and the only way the clones survive is to disobey orders.
 
 
Now, what Rebels is good at is planting payoff; making seemingly unrelated episodes more important later on. Even Droids in Distress, which I personally regard as the worst in the series thus far, at least established the Administrater character and gave us important information about Zeb and Kallus, planting payoff for their rivalry and eventual reconciliation.
 
This episode? Well, we know that the Rebels have been looking for proton bombs for a while, presumably to arm the Y-Wings, and it was important enough to humor a bunch of nutso Separatist droids. This episode was just the culmination of that search. Having more Hondo is just icing on the cake.
 
 

Completely agree. The problem is that when he was a pirate king, Hondo's eccentricity was endearing. Now that he's a sad sack has-been, he's forced to play this sniveling con-man archetype, always groveling for assistance.

I miss when he was cool.

Hondo has brought himself to this point; I think it'll be revealed that he was responsible for his own downfall. Remember, he's selfish and greedy, and those are emotions that belong on the Dark Side.

 

He's also the kind of guy who would shrug and try to move on, rather than live on past glories. He considers himself a businessman, first and foremost, and setbacks are part of that business. Building up enough capital to attract more pirates and get a decent ship is step one, and even though he's already DONE it once, he's quite willing to go on again.

 

Or as Rudyard Kipling put it

 

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings

    And never breathe a word about your loss;

 

Though Hondo will probably at some point admit he'll never be able to recapture his past glories and accept that the Rebel Alliance is his destiny. Or he'll have a heroic sacrifice.

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Can people please stop using the phrase "filler" to describe episodes of Rebels? Sure, there may be occassional scenes of filler in an episode, but anyone who pays any attention would realize every single episode has an impact on the overall story of the series. There are no filler episodes in Rebels.

*cries*

BUT NOBODY DIED! THRAWN DIDN'T EXTERMINATE THE REBELS! DASH RENDAR WASN'T BROUGHT BACK!

 

or something

 

SO IT HAS TO BE FILLER!

 

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Can people please stop using the phrase "filler" to describe episodes of Rebels? Sure, there may be occassional scenes of filler in an episode, but anyone who pays any attention would realize every single episode has an impact on the overall story of the series. There are no filler episodes in Rebels.

Technically every episode is a filler, because we get new information about our characters, or the universe they live in..... From a certain point of view. ;)

 

So now we have pretty much all the pieces of the puzzle, except where Thrawn (How much does he know? He's knows Hera, He knows Sabine from the imperial record, the one spalko Govenor Pryce rattled off at the sky strike academy was very thorough, minus her time on the ghost) and Kalani fit in with all of this.

 

I find it odd the empire would send a shipment like that with little security... unless the Grand Admiral (which I could totally see him doing, provided he gained something from it in the process) studied the battle with the seperatist droids and realized the Rebels were looking for them. Maybe i'm trying to hype Thrawn to much, and overthinking the episode, but you would think a shipment of a million creds and a full load of proton bombs at least warrants a gozanti and a TIE squadron... Even if it's automated.

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I'll concede use of the "filler" label is pretty loose in this thread. Yes, I used it to describe Wynkahthu Job. Yes, I know Dave Filoni hates filler and commits considerable effort to knitting pieces together.

That being said, humor me for a moment. What has Azmorigan ever contributed to this show except comic relief and minor villain? He's the most disposable character in the whole series and he received an annoying amount of screen time in Wynkahthu Job. The episode could have been done without him. Erase Azmorigan from the episode. With a couple minor alterations the episode would have accomplished all the same things without him. Azmorigan was filler in this episode, and his presence made the episode as a whole feel like filler. Removing him would have enabled more meaningful development of the interactions between Zeb, Ezra and Hondo. Instead we get minute after minute of bloated red distraction.

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For me, "filler" is first and foremost an anime term.  And it means content created for the anime that wasn't in the manga(and thus, isn't even really "canon").

 

It's a term that has since been coopted by other fandoms and used erroneously to describe "nothing important happened".  And that's not what filler meant.

 

Of course, language evolves, blah blah blah.  And now this is filler.

 

Hondo has brought himself to this point; I think it'll be revealed that he was responsible for his own downfall. Remember, he's selfish and greedy, and those are emotions that belong on the Dark Side.

That doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch.

 

If after the Empire's defeat, Thrawn got demoted to a sad-sack mall cop, the fact that he was a bad guy and deserved it is irrelevant to me.  I still don't want to watch Thrawn be a mall cop.

 

Hondo was an interesting and dynamic character when he was somebody important.  Now that he's not, he's just a sort of lame comic relief character, and that's not nearly as interesting to watch.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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What has Azmorigan ever contributed to this show except comic relief and minor villain? He's the most disposable character in the whole series and he received an annoying amount of screen time in Wynkahthu Job.

Also, why the hell is he riding around in Hondo's shuttle? That guy owned a C-ROC Gozanti. Wtf happened to it?

Edited by DarthEnderX

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For me, "filler" is first and foremost an anime term.  And it means content created for the anime that wasn't in the manga(and thus, isn't even really "canon").

 

It's a term that has since been coopted by other fandoms and used erroneously to describe "nothing important happened".  And that's not what filler meant.

 

Of course, language evolves, blah blah blah.  And now this is filler.

 

Hondo has brought himself to this point; I think it'll be revealed that he was responsible for his own downfall. Remember, he's selfish and greedy, and those are emotions that belong on the Dark Side.

That doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch.

 

If after the Empire's defeat, Thrawn got demoted to a sad-sack mall cop, the fact that he was a bad guy and deserved it is irrelevant to me.  I still don't want to watch Thrawn be a mall cop.

 

Hondo was an interesting and dynamic character when he was somebody important.  Now that he's not, he's just a sort of lame comic relief character, and that's not nearly as interesting to watch.

 

But Hondo was never someone important. He always was insignificant, a local nuisance with lack impact on the galaxy than Jar Jar Binks. Its like saying some somali militias who interrupt from time to time trad traffic are important. They are a nuisance, but no one gives really a dime about them.   

 

His charm comes from his sociopathic, but fun attitude and that's it. He was pathetic as pirate and he is even more pathetic as con artist. He just lacks any hate or rage either, he just wants to look out for himself first, for his allies second. That makes him a very relatable character for a lot of people, especially as his lack of fear and morality let him go to places others can not. Sociopaths in general are the big TV stars often. ;)

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That doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch.

 

If after the Empire's defeat, Thrawn got demoted to a sad-sack mall cop, the fact that he was a bad guy and deserved it is irrelevant to me.  I still don't want to watch Thrawn be a mall cop.

 

Hondo was an interesting and dynamic character when he was somebody important.  Now that he's not, he's just a sort of lame comic relief character, and that's not nearly as interesting to watch.

Characters are most interesting in adversity, not success. It's the paradox of a writer: you may like a character, but you have to kick them in the balls over and over again to make a good story.

 

Hondo was a decent character in the Clone Wars, but he was just an antagonist there, meant to provide a recurring villain that would contrast the Seperatists and wouldn't get boring with repetition - hell, he's the only reason I LIKED that Jedi Daycare arc (that and realizing that for all their struggles and triumphs, they're all dead in a year; it provides a mono no aware contrast). He's just this side of being TOO Jack Sparrow-ish and annoying me, but he has enough of that Devil-may-care attitude over rock-solid determination to stay interesting.

 

And sometime in the last fifteen years, he lost everything. That makes him sympathetic. Yes, he's still a jerk only out for himself, but that turns him away from the antagonist role. The change reveals more of his character to the audience; we know now that attitude he has isn't just about being on top, but how he acts about everything. We also now have questions about his past and future that are relevant to the story, and gives a bit of mystery to his character... how DID he lose it all? Is he trying to rebuild to the heights of that power, or has he moved on? Will his contact with Ezra show him that he could aspire higher than mere piracy?

 

I realize we disagree with this, because you liked seeing a pirate king swaggering around, and the problem with that is that there's no story to him as long as he's a pirate king. He could only be an element in other people's stories.

 

Now, though, it's a story; Hondo's in the middle of the Empire "ALL IS LOST!" moment and trying to climb back up.

 

If, say, Thrawn lost his job as a commander, was exiled from his own kind, and forced to throw his lot in with a strange group of aliens that hated anyone not of their species, yet somehow through dint of superior ability rose to command them, and then at the height of when the Empire needed his ability most was exiled through political chicanery to the far reaches of the galaxy... oh wait, that IS his arc in the EU.

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But Hondo was never someone important. He always was insignificant, a local nuisance with lack impact on the galaxy than Jar Jar Binks. Its like saying some somali militias who interrupt from time to time trad traffic are important. They are a nuisance, but no one gives really a dime about them.

By that logic, an Imperial Admiral isn't important either. In fact, pretty much nobody short of the Emperor or Vader is "important" based on your qualifications.

The guy ruled and entire pirate fleet. Sure that's "local" on a galactic scale. But you know what, so is the entirety of Mandalore.

 

Characters are most interesting in adversity, not success.

That's a ridiculous blanket statement to make.  It's true of some characters not of others.  And is especially not true of antagonists or foils.

 

He's just this side of being TOO Jack Sparrow-ish and annoying me

See, I think that's his problem NOW. Jack Sparrow, for all his quirkyness, spends all his time in the movies trying to claw his way out of whatever hole he's ended up in. Which is where Hondo is now.

Whereas before, he was the exact opposite of that. Same attitude, but actually successful and reaping the benefits of that success.

I realize we disagree with this, because you liked seeing a pirate king swaggering around, and the problem with that is that there's no story to him as long as he's a pirate king. He could only be an element in other people's stories.

Right, and that's why I wasn't asking for Hondo stories. Just like I have no interest in a Jabba the Hutt story.

And you're not even getting Hondo stories anyway. He's STILL a supporting character. He's just a *****y one now.

 

If, say, Thrawn lost his job as a commander, was exiled from his own kind, and forced to throw his lot in with a strange group of aliens that hated anyone not of their species, yet somehow through dint of superior ability rose to command them, and then at the height of when the Empire needed his ability most was exiled through political chicanery to the far reaches of the galaxy... oh wait, that IS his arc in the EU.

And yet, that part of his story is not the part anyone actually likes. They like the part where he's the big bad of the series. Edited by DarthEnderX

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Well, if we're reckoning from his point of view, the Heir to the Empire IS adversity for Thrawn: he's got a crumbling military that can't control its own systems and has splintered into a dozen factions, each of which are being gobbled up by an enemy that no one respected until too late, and he has to take a desperate chance on cloning and a potentially insane Jedi Master in order to gain victory - and he almost achieves it until a mistake that he made comes back to kill him. You could plausibly rewrite those books from his point of view and make him into a hero taking tremendous risks against long odds.

 

 

The most self-defeating thing about fandom (looks at own name) is that inevitably we make the characters we like part of ourselves and our outlook. Often that freezes them at a point in their story where we like them best, and gives us a feeling of owning them. When the person who actually does own that character makes a change to it, we feel betrayed; it's as though the owner tried to take away a part of ourselves which we never actually possessed.

 

That feeling, though, leads to bitterness at the very thing which once brought joy, and poisons the heart of fandom: Finding that piece of ourselves in another human being's creation.

 

You can find this poison at a lot of fanboy's hearts, and it both pisses me off and makes me a bit sad. It comes from a simple, sad truth: People don't like change. The only problem is that this collides with the stone-cold, immutable fact that change is inevitable. It is going to happen.

 

Why not try to find the good in it, instead of focusing on the way it's not what you expected?

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Well, if we're reckoning from his point of view, the Heir to the Empire IS adversity for Thrawn

We're not though.  He's the antagonist.  He's the guy in charge of one of the two most powerful militaries in the galaxy.

Sure, it's not as dominant as it used to be, but to try and categorize that as adversity is just ridiculous.

That's like saying "My hot fudge sundae with whip cream and sprinkles doesn't have a cherry. I am facing adversity."

 

The most self-defeating thing about fandom (looks at own name) is that inevitably we make the characters we like part of ourselves and our outlook. Often that freezes them at a point in their story where we like them best, and gives us a feeling of owning them. When the person who actually does own that character makes a change to it, we feel betrayed; it's as though the owner tried to take away a part of ourselves which we never actually possessed.

I really don't think that's the issue here.

If he'd been introduced to us the way he is now, and then became what he was in TCW, I'd still like the pirate king version better. It's just a more enjoyable character.

He's basically just Qwark now. And if you consider him to be Jack Sparrow before, well, I like Jack Sparrow 10x more than I like Qwark.

 

Why not try to find the good in it, instead of focusing on the way it's not what you expected?

Because I don't find ANY of the change good. And it's not because I'm not looking, I just genuinely don't like it

You're trying to write my opinion off as though I've got nostalgia blinders on and aren't seeing all aspects of the character. But I am, and I still don't like it. That's my opinion, and none of your psychoanalysis of how you think fandoms work is going to change it.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Then we must agree to disagree on Hondo. I prefer it when creators have new takes on old characters, you enjoyed him best when he was on top of the world and not in the gutter.

 

Weirdly, all of this arguing makes me sound like a Hondo fan waiting with bated breath for him to show up. He's an ancillary character who happens to be more interesting than his equivalents before he showed up, like Virago (Vizago?) I wouldn't have pulled him forward from TCW myself, but apparently they liked him well enough to keep using him. I just happen to enjoy a good argument, especially when I still have 80 zombies to paint out of 210~ and I'm looking for a break. :D

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I prefer it when creators have new takes on old characters

I prefer when creators have BETTER takes on characters.  New take, old take, doesn't matter to me.  If a change is going to make an interesting character boring, then don't make it.  If it's going to make a boring character interesting, then I'm all for it.

 

Hondo was already one of, like, my 2 favorite characters in TCW(the other being Cad Bane).  So it's unlikely that any drastic changes to him was going to improve him in my eyes.

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There's a word for characters that don't change: stagnant. People change for the worse sometimes; characters should too. If every character stays the same or improves, then the story is lying to itself and its audience.

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There's a word for characters that don't change: stagnant. People change for the worse sometimes; characters should too. If every character stays the same or improves, then the story is lying to itself and its audience.

I agree. 

I enjoyed watching Ahsoka grow as a character in The Clone Wars. Seeing her change is what made her one of my favorite characters in Star Wars. Ditto-ditto Asajj Ventress. 

Cad Bane and Hondo Onaka aren't interesting characters: They don't grow, they don't change. They're two-dimensional characters. When they show up, they are absolutely entertaining in how they change things up where they go and when they show up. But as characters rather than as events, they're boring. 

Now, if you took them and gave them a chance to grow and evolve, to change, then things have potential. 

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Cad Bane is exciting, and he fills a role in several story arcs. Cad Bane is constantly the heartless mercenary. It's okay for his character to stay the same for the sake of fulfilling that role.

Hondo and Cad could not be more different. Hondo has a unique (to Star Wars) mulit-faceted personality. As Hondo's circumstances change, the audience gets a glimpse of a different facet at the same time he's still the same old Hondo.

Characters like Ashoka and Asajj must change or the story stagnates with them. In the specific case of Ashoka and Asajj; they must change at a similar pace because the two characters give each other and the audience with a basis to compare and contrast divergent paths in life. At times one is the other's antithesis, and at times the two characters mirror each other. Without simultaneous change, the shadows and reflections between Asajj and Ashoka are lost.

Edited by jmswood

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