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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.

You never know, Hound's Tooth has primary thrusters pointing upwards

 

I'm pretty sure those are exhausts for the reactor. And the main thrusters are the horizontal lines behind the cab.

And that's the thing. Thrusters can look like anything and be placed anywhere in star wars so no wonder there's confusion on the aggressor.

Tie fighter thrusters are tiny specks on most of our models. Yet they can keep up with the rear spanning Falcon engine.

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.

 

 

Unless of course, you are building a tensile starship. In which case in order to cut down on mass the main payload is pushed by a laser-sail towards the destination, and then pulled by the main engines to slow it down; then you perform the inverse to get back home, pulling yourself towards home by your engines, and being slowed by a laser once you're there.

 

830px-Isv.jpg

 

ISV Venture Star is my example here (because of course it is the prettiest of all possible examples ^_^ ), the giant glowy red things are radiators, and the spikes jutting out the front are the primary thrusters, in fact the ship has no "front" and remains in the same orientation to and from its target destination.

 

                                                               Ship

 

                                             HHHHH>-                          I

Laser ---------------------->       --OO╠═>>>-------H--HH--I    <---------------------- Thrusters                   

                                             HHHHH>-                          I

 

 

But, if the "front" of a spaceship to you is the part facing away from the attached thrusters, then front of this ship is in fact the glowy red bit. Realistic science is weird like that.

 

 

Edit.

 

Star Wars ships are relatively simple to understand, because sci-fi tech makes them that way. This is not a bad thing.  ;)

Edited by OneKelvin

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Why bother with the sail-thruster shenanigans and not just rotate the craft using something like RCS halfway through?

 

Or if rotating it is impossible why not get rid of the trusters and add another sail facing "backwards"?

Edited by eMeM

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Why bother with the sail-thruster shenanigans and not just rotate the craft using something like RCS halfway through?

 

Or if rotating it is impossible why not get rid of the trusters and add another sail facing "backwards"?

 

The reasons why come from the nature of the vessel and the destination.

 

The laser is the better method of transportation cost-wise if you have a planet with a station for it. This is because the ship with a laser-sail does not need to carry propellant with it, and the sail is by nature very low-mass. A small ship with a large laser sail can carry a large payload, a small ship with a large engine will be dedicate most of its power to simply moving the engine itself and the required propellant. Consider the subway tram; a small engine is possible because the power comes from outside the vehicle, and the space-saving is translated into cargo capacity. Less mass = more cargo = more money.

 

Now this ship has a purpose; it ships unobtainium and rotated crew from the extraction site to Earth, and a ship full of new crew and supplies back to Pandora. There is no free energy here, no warp drive, no FTL. Every single kilo saved is $20 Million dollars worth of unobtainium on the return trip, and whatever saving power-wise pushing the ship out there in the first place. Every gram saved is an hour less spent waiting in cryostasis on-route to your destination. Less mass = more cargo = more money.

 

So now that we've established that the laser-sail thing is better money-wise, and that it requires a powerplant and an orbital laser station powerful enough to push the craft at the embarkation point we have to look at the other end of the line. This particular ship was designed to go to Pandora, an extra-solar, uncolonized planet. No laser is on-site at Pandora, so you'd need a thruster assembly on the ship to slow down and speed up to leave the system. Why rotate the ship if it's only ever going to thrust away from a planet without a laser assembly? And why waste precious mass on propellant tanks and thruster assemblies if you'll only need them one-way? Less mass = more cargo = more money.

 

 

Edit:

 

While I do sometimes call it a solar sail for ease of recognition, do keep in mind that it is a laser-sail, and simple solar won't do much for you out in the interstellar void, or slow you down from a fraction of C in time to not crash into your destination.

Edited by OneKelvin

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...it is a laser-sail, and simple solar won't do much for you out in the interstellar void, or slow you down from a fraction of C in time to not crash into your destination.

 

 

 

Out of interest, have you ever read "Flight of the Dragonfly" :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocheworld#Forward.27s_light_sail_propulsion_system

 

Your discussion reminded me of the "Prometheus" ship used...I was fascinated by the idea when it came out in the mid-80's  :huh:

 

 

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.

You never know, Hound's Tooth has primary thrusters pointing upwards

I hate that design too.

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.
You never know, Hound's Tooth has primary thrusters pointing upwards
I hate that design too.

Seriously, isn't it obvious that the big bar engines behind the cab are where it's propulsion come from, the big chimneys are obviously exhausts from it's generator.

15036745_10211564900777229_1979014012412

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...it is a laser-sail, and simple solar won't do much for you out in the interstellar void, or slow you down from a fraction of C in time to not crash into your destination.

 

 

 

Out of interest, have you ever read "Flight of the Dragonfly" :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocheworld#Forward.27s_light_sail_propulsion_system

 

Your discussion reminded me of the "Prometheus" ship used...I was fascinated by the idea when it came out in the mid-80's  :huh:

 

 

Never read it, buuuut with Starship Titanic ​read twice I now have a new slot open in my sci-fi reading lineup, so that may be rectified soon. Plus, I remember hearing in this same thread a post about planets which had a merging atmosphere at some point. I scoffed at the idea then, but this book has "hard sci-fi" in its sell-point reviews so my curiosity is now piqued. Google provide art as usual, free of charge; this was the most interesting result I found for the Prometheus.

 

prometheus_over_roche_world_by_diasparys

 

The logic circuit in my brain labeled "basic reference" tells me that two such planets would crash into each other quickly (a few years max?) due to atmospheric friction rapidly reducing their orbits. Until that point the tides and windstorms would be simply terrific: imagine the static! That little bridge of air between the two planets? I imagine it would be the closest you'd get to seeing Ragnarok. A hundred-mile wide lighting storm without pause, finally ending with the collision of the planets!  :lol:

 

I simply have to read this now, if not just to see whether or not they address that little tidbit.  :D

Edited by OneKelvin

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...it is a laser-sail, and simple solar won't do much for you out in the interstellar void, or slow you down from a fraction of C in time to not crash into your destination.

 

 

 

Out of interest, have you ever read "Flight of the Dragonfly" :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocheworld#Forward.27s_light_sail_propulsion_system

 

Your discussion reminded me of the "Prometheus" ship used...I was fascinated by the idea when it came out in the mid-80's  :huh:

 

...have a new slot open in my sci-fi reading lineup, so that may be rectified soon. Plus, I remember hearing in this same thread a post about planets which had a merging atmosphere at some point. I scoffed at the idea then, but this book has "hard sci-fi" in its sell-point reviews so my curiosity is now piqued.

 

 

I simply have to read this now, if not just to see whether or not they address that little tidbit.  :D

 

 

I never bothered with the follow-on books, as the [original] 'Flight' seemed sensible, with the sequels just being a cash-in  :mellow:

 

...I think even the original was changed slightly in subsequent reprints, to sit better with the sequels - certainly, I'm sure there are parts in the Wiki summary that are different to my copy that I've had since the mid-80s  :unsure:

 

...but I think the science of Rocheworld is supposed to be reasonable - at least, it was 30yrs ago, although there may have been some developments since that invalidate it, I guess  :huh: - probably the last 3rd of the book is given over to technical reference for the ship & planetary science  ;)

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...it is a laser-sail, and simple solar won't do much for you out in the interstellar void, or slow you down from a fraction of C in time to not crash into your destination.

 

 

 

Out of interest, have you ever read "Flight of the Dragonfly" :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocheworld#Forward.27s_light_sail_propulsion_system

 

Your discussion reminded me of the "Prometheus" ship used...I was fascinated by the idea when it came out in the mid-80's  :huh:

 

 

Never read it, buuuut with Starship Titanic ​read twice I now have a new slot open in my sci-fi reading lineup, so that may be rectified soon. Plus, I remember hearing in this same thread a post about planets which had a merging atmosphere at some point. I scoffed at the idea then, but this book has "hard sci-fi" in its sell-point reviews so my curiosity is now piqued. Google provide art as usual, free of charge; this was the most interesting result I found for the Prometheus.

 

prometheus_over_roche_world_by_diasparys

 

The logic circuit in my brain labeled "basic reference" tells me that two such planets would crash into each other quickly (a few years max?) due to atmospheric friction rapidly reducing their orbits. Until that point the tides and windstorms would be simply terrific: imagine the static! That little bridge of air between the two planets? I imagine it would be the closest you'd get to seeing Ragnarok. A hundred-mile wide lighting storm without pause, finally ending with the collision of the planets!  :lol:

 

I simply have to read this now, if not just to see whether or not they address that little tidbit.  :D

 

 

If you really want to create a fictional environment with the two planets being connected like that, it reminds me of the Grand Stream from the anime Last Exile, you fly high into the blue sky, and eventually get caught through dimensional puddle that enters you into a grand storm, wind, rain, and lighting, and if your ship doesn't maintain speed to keep control your basically dust in the wind.

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

 

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.

 

You never know, Hound's Tooth has primary thrusters pointing upwards

 

I hate that design too.

 

Seriously, isn't it obvious that the big bar engines behind the cab are where it's propulsion come from, the big chimneys are obviously exhausts from it's generator.

15036745_10211564900777229_1979014012412

 

I just wanna say that the engines FFG slapped on are new.

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Pardon my ignorance, but I see this thread has a host of followers, so it must be something substantial an there lies a possible angle that I could play to my advantage with your groups knowledge. And I do hereby promise not to poke fun at the cartoonish X-Wing ships (as I have in some other threads) that I can only assume got their genesis on the show that is praised herein. Although I love good-hearted banter and a hearty laugh, I also understand it is not polite to poke too much fun at that which you do not understand.

 

So here's my request for a basic overview, ie. a "Cliff Notes" version, so-to-speak. The issue at hand is my nephews watch this show (or at least two of them have spoken of it), so I'd like a working knowledge. So if someone could tell me the basics like, is it a cartoon or CGI?, Is it tied into the movie lore in any way? if so, where does it fall within the movies? Who's the antagonist? the protagonist? What is the overarching theme? (I'm assuming it is terrorist trying to overthrow the government as in the movie universe).

 

Anyway, I guess I could google or Wiki, or Wookie this, but I like this forum and you guys seem to be knee deep in it. Thanks!

 

Signed, the uninformed....

 

For the game, Rebels has spawned the Imperial Assault Carrier (Gozanti), the Inquisitor's TIE, the Ghost/Phantom, the Mist Hunter, and the Lancer pursuit craft. We also get to see such capital ships as the Imperial Immobilizer class (the precursor to the Interdictor from the books), the Imperial Quasar Fire-class light carrier, a D4-shaped Imp cargo hauler, and, the Hammerhead corvette, and a modified version of the Pelta-class Frigate from the Clone Wars CGI show. Also some Mandalorian fighters. 

 

Just like the Clone Wars TV show, Rebels takes a little while to find its footing, and then really takes off as a decent show in its own right. The Darth Vader arc was particularly good. 

 

 

The Mist Hunter is old EU and doesn't actually appear in Rebels at all, the Gozanti originates from The Phantom Menace although Rebels is responsible for bolting TIEs to it.

 

 

The cargo Gozanti is. The Imperial one (which I was referring to) didn't appear before, not that I ever saw. 

 

I stand corrected on the Mist Hunter, though. It looks close so you can understand my jumbled memory. Now that I've seen the conversion posted elsewhere, I think I'll reverse the hull/wings on mine. 

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

 

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.

 

You never know, Hound's Tooth has primary thrusters pointing upwards

 

I hate that design too.

 

Seriously, isn't it obvious that the big bar engines behind the cab are where it's propulsion come from, the big chimneys are obviously exhausts from it's generator.

15036745_10211564900777229_1979014012412

 

I just wanna say that the engines FFG slapped on are new.

 

 

In a later episode of the Clone Wars you see the bar engines (1 big, 2 little) lit up bright red. The rest of the stuff doesn't radiate visibly. It's way cool to see in flight, though. I wish they'd feature it more.

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It's backwards. The artist wasn't terribly clever.

Because it is oh so easy to tell which is the front on the ship, especially since the ship is piloted and once was built exclusively for a droid. Droids don't necessarily need windows.

 

yeah but primary thrusters don't usually point forward.

 

You never know, Hound's Tooth has primary thrusters pointing upwards

 

I hate that design too.

 

Seriously, isn't it obvious that the big bar engines behind the cab are where it's propulsion come from, the big chimneys are obviously exhausts from it's generator.

15036745_10211564900777229_1979014012412

 

I just wanna say that the engines FFG slapped on are new.

 

 

In a later episode of the Clone Wars you see the bar engines (1 big, 2 little) lit up bright red. The rest of the stuff doesn't radiate visibly. It's way cool to see in flight, though. I wish they'd feature it more.

 

 

Just looked up the episode, Yep definitely the top wide one and the 2 under are engines.. It's really hard to get a screenshot as the engines are leaking smoke.

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Why bother with the sail-thruster shenanigans and not just rotate the craft using something like RCS halfway through?

 

Or if rotating it is impossible why not get rid of the trusters and add another sail facing "backwards"?

 

The reasons why come from the nature of the vessel and the destination.

 

The laser is the better method of transportation cost-wise if you have a planet with a station for it. This is because the ship with a laser-sail does not need to carry propellant with it, and the sail is by nature very low-mass. A small ship with a large laser sail can carry a large payload, a small ship with a large engine will be dedicate most of its power to simply moving the engine itself and the required propellant. Consider the subway tram; a small engine is possible because the power comes from outside the vehicle, and the space-saving is translated into cargo capacity. Less mass = more cargo = more money.

 

Now this ship has a purpose; it ships unobtainium and rotated crew from the extraction site to Earth, and a ship full of new crew and supplies back to Pandora. There is no free energy here, no warp drive, no FTL. Every single kilo saved is $20 Million dollars worth of unobtainium on the return trip, and whatever saving power-wise pushing the ship out there in the first place. Every gram saved is an hour less spent waiting in cryostasis on-route to your destination. Less mass = more cargo = more money.

 

So now that we've established that the laser-sail thing is better money-wise, and that it requires a powerplant and an orbital laser station powerful enough to push the craft at the embarkation point we have to look at the other end of the line. This particular ship was designed to go to Pandora, an extra-solar, uncolonized planet. No laser is on-site at Pandora, so you'd need a thruster assembly on the ship to slow down and speed up to leave the system. Why rotate the ship if it's only ever going to thrust away from a planet without a laser assembly? And why waste precious mass on propellant tanks and thruster assemblies if you'll only need them one-way? Less mass = more cargo = more money.

 

 

Edit:

 

While I do sometimes call it a solar sail for ease of recognition, do keep in mind that it is a laser-sail, and simple solar won't do much for you out in the interstellar void, or slow you down from a fraction of C in time to not crash into your destination.

 

Thank you for explanation, that makes sense, although it sounds like a space railroad, or half-railroad.

 

Surely it would be of no use for a bounty hunting murderbot :P

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So new illicit based upgrade that works like a bomb upgrade?

They use cargo as a bomb, how could we call it... ?

Cargo Drop? It's gotta be a part of a ship... something with cargo bay. Modified Cargo Bay? Or cargo chute? Illegaly Modified Cargo Chute? 

Rigged Cargo Chute?

 

Wait a second...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU5oX8Pswms

 

So new illicit based upgrade that works like a bomb upgrade?

They use cargo as a bomb, how could we call it... ?

Cargo Drop? It's gotta be a part of a ship... something with cargo bay. Modified Cargo Bay? Or cargo chute? Illegaly Modified Cargo Chute? 

Rigged Cargo Chute?

 

Wait a second...

Explosive Cargo Chute, a couple points more expensive than Rigged, has properties of a bomb.

Sounds good to me!

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