Captain Lackwit

STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion thread

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14 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I won't argue that.  I feel like it's a poor excuse for a government so recently installed through successive military action, building on a previously established government that lasted for over a thousand years, but it's acceptable.

My problem/argument is that even if the bulk of the New Republic fleet was defending the capital, what the **** happened to the rest of it?  Again, putting the entire fleet around the capital is silly, and would represent both a stupid waste of resources and be a political bone of contention.  Spreading out the fleet makes more sense both militarily and politically, as it prevents the Fleet from being seen as a potential stick with which to bash opponents heads in, and shows that the money being spent on it is worthwhile by using it against pirates, raiders, and generally patrolling.  

Apoearantly the NR is run so incompetently that by the time of TFA the Republic fleet is 10% of its wartime numbers and I’d assume 25-50% of that was being wasted hanging out at the Capitol.  I’d be backing the FO if that was the best the leadership of the NR could do.  

The FO fleet we see in TLJ only included one of presumed many if not several Dreadnaughts (along with an unknown number of FO SDs) that can be assumed to have laid waste to the remaining Republic and a Resistence fleets as Statkiller was destroying Hosnian Prime and Co.  The Supremacy alone could have wiped out the space pickle fleet we see orbiting the exploding planets in TFA.  If any of the Repubkic’s forces were used to picket duty and busting pirates then they would have been easily surprised and destroyed by an FO blitzkrieg. 

 

 

Given the evidence we see in the films and a bit extra from the books, we see a very sorry excuse for a galactic government and its military.

 

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6 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Apoearantly the NR is run so incompetently that by the time of TFA the Republic fleet is 10% of its wartime numbers and I’d assume 25-50% of that was being wasted hanging out at the Capitol.  I’d be backing the FO if that was the best the leadership of the NR could do.  

The FO fleet we see in TLJ only included one of presumed many if not several Dreadnaughts (along with an unknown number of FO SDs) that can be assumed to have laid waste to the remaining Republic and a Resistence fleets as Statkiller was destroying Hosnian Prime and Co.  The Supremacy alone could have wiped out the space pickle fleet we see orbiting the exploding planets in TFA.  If any of the Repubkic’s forces were used to picket duty and busting pirates then they would have been easily surprised and destroyed by an FO blitzkrieg. 

 

 

Given the evidence we see in the films and a bit extra from the books, we see a very sorry excuse for a galactic government and its military.

 

Note that the Dreadnaut is presumed to be rare enough that killing one is a worthwhile sidequest for a fleet on the run. If the FO could just call in another "fleet killer" like tie fighters, just getting away should be enough.

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8 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Note that the Dreadnaut is presumed to be rare enough that killing one is a worthwhile sidequest for a fleet on the run. If the FO could just call in another "fleet killer" like tie fighters, just getting away should be enough.

I think the point of the opening battle in TLJ was that it wasn’t worthwhile to waste a bomber fleet with escorts to take out that dresdnaught.  

And once the Supremacy shows up and it’s known that the heroes would be chased through hyperspace the FO wouldn’t need to call up any more dreadnaughts from doing whatever they are doing, presumedly destroying fleets somewhere else where Hux wasn’t falling for ‘yo mama’ jokes.

 

I would put the estimate of the number of big FO ships like Dreadnaughts as a hand ful to a dozen.

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3 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Note that the Dreadnaut is presumed to be rare enough that killing one is a worthwhile sidequest for a fleet on the run. If the FO could just call in another "fleet killer" like tie fighters, just getting away should be enough.

Kinda what I thought, which made everybody bashing Poe kinda silly to me. 

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11 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I still don't understand how that's even possible.  Even a demilitarized New Republic, relying largely on planetary and sector fleets as a militia, shouldn't have been taken out in a single strike.  Why weren't there fleets on patrol, or chasing down pirates?  On training maneuvers?  Or Senators at home, or campaigning, and now setting up a new government?  What about the planetary governments and fleets?  Sure, the FO seems to be controlling everything behind the scenes (somehow), but surely there are more than a few left out there that can help? 

I know the whole "New Republic disappears" thing was a plot convenience to restore the status quo to the OT, but c'mon, how does a Galactic government just disappear? 

Because they're stupid and it's the single weakest point of the entire ST. It's super **** lame and I hate it to pieces.

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I kind of like the exaggerated complacency/cowardice of the New Republic because I feel like it's a good critique of that attitude that if you just beat the baddies once that's it.

The Republic was so scared of using hard power that it ended up lacking the vigilance to notice a rising thread. This kind of fits in with the whole idea of the Empire being analagous to the Nazis while the FO are analogous to Neo-Nazis. The Republic deluded itself into thinking the Empire was over and so was terrible at actually dealing with the rise of a new fascist faction. We see a similar thing in the real world where a common refrain is that the Nazis were beat in WW2 so we don't need to worry about that ideology existing.

Before I get to political with that comparison though, it also has a link to the events of TLJ. Just as TLJ shows Luke's battle with his impulsive nature didn't end on the second Death Star, neither did the battle against the Empire end at Jakku. The battle to be a good Jedi never really ends, and the battle to promote fairness and democracy never really ends either.

Now, I feel like the extent to Republic complacency is a little too much. I'm also still sceptical about Operation Cinder, although I like the idea of Palpatine being that petty. I like the general theme though. I think the invasion of the FO is best reasoned as the bulk of the New Republic fleet being at Hosnian so there are still holdouts scattered through the systems but they simply don't have the clout to hold off the FO. I realise this perhaps potentially clashes with some lines of dialogue, however.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 1:32 PM, Alpha17 said:

still don't understand how that's even possible.  Even a demilitarized New Republic, relying largely on planetary and sector fleets as a militia, shouldn't have been taken out in a single strike.  Why weren't there fleets on patrol, or chasing down pirates?  On training maneuvers?  Or Senators at home, or campaigning, and now setting up a new government?  What about the planetary governments and fleets?  Sure, the FO seems to be controlling everything behind the scenes (somehow), but surely there are more than a few left out there that can help? 

I know the whole "New Republic disappears" thing was a plot convenience to restore the status quo to the OT, but c'mon, how does a Galactic government just disappear? 

 

20 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I won't argue that.  I feel like it's a poor excuse for a government so recently installed through successive military action, building on a previously established government that lasted for over a thousand years, but it's acceptable.

My problem/argument is that even if the bulk of the New Republic fleet was defending the capital, what the **** happened to the rest of it?  Again, putting the entire fleet around the capital is silly, and would represent both a stupid waste of resources and be a political bone of contention.  Spreading out the fleet makes more sense both militarily and politically, as it prevents the Fleet from being seen as a potential stick with which to bash opponents heads in, and shows that the money being spent on it is worthwhile by using it against pirates, raiders, and generally patrolling.  

As I understand it, it's more a case that the bulk of those warships in service got parcelled back out to system defence fleets as well as a cut in numbers,

I.e. instead of [massive republic fleet of 1000 ships] and [maybe the odd frigate assigned to each system], it's more like [core fleet of 30 ships] and [5-10 ships assigned to each system].

what got blown up was the core fleet. The rest is still out there, but they aren't and have never been 'republic' ships - they belong to the individual system governments, who refuse to commit them because (a) the First Order isn't coming after them yet and (b) they don't want to send of their little fleet to protect their neighbours and leave their system vulnerable if a first order star destroyer does hove into view over the hyper limit.

So whilst a remilitarised First Order probably does outnumber the 'not first order' fleets a bit, it doesn't need to outnumber them by much - because 90% of the ships out there aren't republic fleets but correllian fleets, or mon cala fleets, or sullustan fleets, and they're sat nailed to the respective systems they're supposed to protect because they aren't and don't think of themselves as 'republic' units and there's no-one to rally them into a cohesive organisation.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Given there are factions like the Centrists as well, I wouldn't be surprised if some systems straight up surrendered to the First Order right away, especially ones that might have former ties to the Empire and aren't too fussy about Operation Cinder.

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