Captain Lackwit

STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion thread

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Could be those were the major industrial and population centers of the world. When you look at maps of the United States, you see the major cities of each state and nothing else. Based off of that alone, the US would be sparsely populated at all. Add in all the suburb and rural towns that fill in the gaps, and things skyrocket well beyond what the map would indicate. If one major world originally was able to send a Senator to Coruscant and the rest were represented within the Senator's scope of governance, you once again get millions of worlds. And given that the majority of these worlds are probably uninhabited enough that a garrison of stormtroopers with transports can effectively cow any resistance (who cares about piracy or smuggling as long as it doesn't hurt the Imperial bottom line throw an Arghkittens out there if things are too bad) then you don't need a massive fleet of Star Destroyers.

Have each sector fleet orbiting the systems that matter, and if somebody attacks the outlying systems send one ISD in because nothing in the galaxy can overcome that amount of power.

At least that was the plan before these backwater worlds started hosting whole cells of Rebels...

That's why the Death Star was favored over more Star Destroyers. You'd never be able to build enough Star Destroyers to tack down every system, but the fear of the Death Star would supposedly keep these systems in line. Same thing with nukes. We'd have undoubtedly gone to war with Russia and/or China during the Cold War if it weren't for the fear of our own cities being annihilated. Fear of destruction is a great influence on behavior and you only need one person to blab to Imperial authorities as to who the Rebels are. Heck, people would likely just start turning in a few folks they don't like every year to placate the ISB and keep the Boogy Star away.

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9 hours ago, Forresto said:

Well...

Even if the Imperials at Jakku are just the fanatic supporters, the type that would carry out Operation: Cinder without question, it still begs the question then what about the rest of the Empire? Because that actually makes marking Jakku as the end of the Empire much more problematic. 

I actually think they did this rather okish. The alliance to restore the republic declared the restoration of the republic. As the empire IS the republic everyone who was not one of those fanatics at Jakku was like "****, yeah, republic, democracy, hurray, lets join them!". 
And we are back to square one: A corrupt senate. Local corrupt governments and no internal union against a common enemy. This actually works for me. 

It's just silly that the new republic let's this happen without plenty of executions of ex-imperials to clean up as good as they can before letting all that scum join the senate. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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9 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I actually think they did this rather okish. The alliance to restore the republic declared the restoration of the republic. As the empire IS the republic everyone who was not one of those fanatical ideas at Jakku was like "****, yeah, republic". 
And we are back to square one: A corrupt senate. Local corrupt governments and no internal union against a common enemy. This actually works for me. 

It's just silly that the new republic let's this happen without plenty of executions of ex-imperials to clean up as good as they can before letting all that scum join the senate. 

Eventually people may think that but remember the Empire has been pumping propaganda into all of their worlds. Jakku is a distant battle and the rebels are terrorists that destroyed two Death Stars (causing the deaths of millions of "patriots") and assassinated their emperor. That's only going to rally people against the Rebels. 

Look at the US and the Confederacy and the major role it still plays in modern Southern Culture. Battles do not break a populace's spirit easily. I'm a yankee and I don't understand that culture but I understand the stubborn mentality. That's even without the Nazi esque propaganda machine of the Empire.

I agree though and I love that we see the pro Imperialists still around infecting the New Republic, its a brilliant idea that helps form the reality of the situation.

So maybe as @Captain Lackwit says between Operation: Cinder and the defeat at Jakku the fight was taken out of most of the remaining Empire, I can totally buy that for what it could be, but not for what it is.

There are a million reasons why the Empire could collapse in a year from a massive battle between two Moffs that involves a quarter of the Imperial fleet and results in cataclysmic losses to thousands of battles that grind the Empire down in a war of attrition as more worlds join the New Republic. There is an incredibly epic story to be told in this short era that got rushed by sadly.  

I just think the story group wants to focus on the sequel trilogy and bum rushed the OT's arc. I'm sure this can be rectified once the Last Jedi and third movie in the trilogy comes out. In that way they can have characters from the next two movies appear thirty years earlier. 

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Here's what I got out of watching all the cutscenes for Battlefront II

The Empire was on the ropes when it came to maintaining their fleet and building new equipment. All those Star Destroyers needed fuel, Tibanna, and other requisitions that they could no longer get in sufficient quantities after losing their supply chain. Losing single supply centers such as Sullust and Bespin suddenly put huge kinks into the Empire's ability to prosecute major battles. It's not possible at this point to see why their supply chain went south so fast. Maybe the revelation of a second Death Star and news of its destruction drove large numbers of planets straight into the Rebellion's arms. Maybe Operation Cinder managed to destroy a lot of Imperial supply worlds and nobody thought to question that the Emperor was royally trolling them. Only future stories will clear this up.

3 hours ago, Forresto said:

Eventually people may think that but remember the Empire has been pumping propaganda into all of their worlds. Jakku is a distant battle and the rebels are terrorists that destroyed two Death Stars (causing the deaths of millions of "patriots") and assassinated their emperor. That's only going to rally people against the Rebels. 

The added end scenes of Return of the Jedi paints a vastly different picture. Even Coruscant had major rioting at the slightest moment of weakness. That stormtrooper wasn't getting crowdsurfed as a sign of support for the Empire. As I mentioned in the spoiler, once news that the Empire was building a 2nd Death Star came out, that would likely piss off a large group of the galaxy's population. They knew that it was a weapon to be used for the destruction of loyal, neutral, and disloyal citizens alike and probably didn't want a government that kept building these things and probably really liked the guys that kept destroying them. Once you get a large percentage of any population rising up against a government not even a Death Star could keep you in power.

In one of the new comics where Darth Vader has an audience with the Emperor after the loss of the first Death Star, with the Senate disbanded and the Death Star destroyed, there was not longer any control of the local populations. It was the first time in 20 years that the Emperor believed that his hold upon the galaxy was threatened. Combine that with what we see on planets like Lothal, and you can see that the populace sees straight through the Empire's propaganda and has no desire to see it perpetuated. The reason for this outlook compared to the American Confederacy is because the Confederacy never brutalized their own citizens like the Empire did. The citizenry had a good thing going until their government was disbanded and so had reason to foster a culture of remembering their former nation as a grand thing. It wouldn't be the case if Lee started burning major Southern cities to ensure that the US would inherit nothing but ashes.

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7 hours ago, Forresto said:

Eventually people may think that but remember the Empire has been pumping propaganda into all of their worlds. 

That's irrelevant. The empire is no democracy, Moffs and local governours hold the power and can easily claim to have been always loyal to the republic and bring the worlds under their control back to the new senate. Naturally with them as Senator or someone of their choosing and their ISDs becoming part of their local militia. 

 

3 hours ago, flyboymb said:

The reason for this outlook compared to the American Confederacy is because the Confederacy never brutalized their own citizens like the Empire did.

Did they not technical count their slaves as 1/2 citizens to have more voting power in the union? ;-)
 

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7 hours ago, flyboymb said:

Here's what I got out of watching all the cutscenes for Battlefront II

 

  Hide contents

The Empire was on the ropes when it came to maintaining their fleet and building new equipment. All those Star Destroyers needed fuel, Tibanna, and other requisitions that they could no longer get in sufficient quantities after losing their supply chain. Losing single supply centers such as Sullust and Bespin suddenly put huge kinks into the Empire's ability to prosecute major battles. It's not possible at this point to see why their supply chain went south so fast. Maybe the revelation of a second Death Star and news of its destruction drove large numbers of planets straight into the Rebellion's arms. Maybe Operation Cinder managed to destroy a lot of Imperial supply worlds and nobody thought to question that the Emperor was royally trolling them. Only future stories will clear this up.

 

The added end scenes of Return of the Jedi paints a vastly different picture. Even Coruscant had major rioting at the slightest moment of weakness. That stormtrooper wasn't getting crowdsurfed as a sign of support for the Empire. As I mentioned in the spoiler, once news that the Empire was building a 2nd Death Star came out, that would likely piss off a large group of the galaxy's population. They knew that it was a weapon to be used for the destruction of loyal, neutral, and disloyal citizens alike and probably didn't want a government that kept building these things and probably really liked the guys that kept destroying them. Once you get a large percentage of any population rising up against a government not even a Death Star could keep you in power.

In one of the new comics where Darth Vader has an audience with the Emperor after the loss of the first Death Star, with the Senate disbanded and the Death Star destroyed, there was not longer any control of the local populations. It was the first time in 20 years that the Emperor believed that his hold upon the galaxy was threatened. Combine that with what we see on planets like Lothal, and you can see that the populace sees straight through the Empire's propaganda and has no desire to see it perpetuated. The reason for this outlook compared to the American Confederacy is because the Confederacy never brutalized their own citizens like the Empire did. The citizenry had a good thing going until their government was disbanded and so had reason to foster a culture of remembering their former nation as a grand thing. It wouldn't be the case if Lee started burning major Southern cities to ensure that the US would inherit nothing but ashes.

Except the Confederates did burn down Atlanta and other places to prevent the Union from gaining those resources. Then you get the conscription in later years...

My point isn't that it can't make sense is that the canon has done a poor job showing any of this. Certainly we can assume but we shouldn't have to do the foot work. I enjoy the foot work mind you but still.

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