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Captain Lackwit

STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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1 hour ago, codegnave said:

I like the idea that Tarkin was just Wrong. It's more interesting.

I'm sure he was telling the truth... from a certain point of view.

Seriously, I have no idea how people treat every single line of dialog in those movies as absolute universal truths.  There is so so much gibberish in those movies.  It's part of the appeal, as far as I'm concerned, but it means most lines are widely open to interpretation and in fact, have been reinterpreted multiple times over the years by different sources.

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18 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

That story hasn't been told yet. There is a chance that they may have met Luke, but no guarantees. 

I don't think there's any chance they'll meet Luke, at least not until after Return of the Jedi because then Luke goes off and does his own thing.  

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36 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

I'm sure he was telling the truth... from a certain point of view.

Seriously, I have no idea how people treat every single line of dialog in those movies as absolute universal truths.  There is so so much gibberish in those movies.  It's part of the appeal, as far as I'm concerned, but it means most lines are widely open to interpretation and in fact, have been reinterpreted multiple times over the years by different sources.

My favourite is the parsecs line that got it's own backstory, a copule of books and became as important to Han as Chewie, and obviously made it into the **** TFA :I

Meanwhile the script makes it clear that Han is just trying to BS them with hard words and made up stories... 

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Obi Wan didn't recognize R2-D2,  Anakin/Vader didn't sense R2-D2 on the Death Star or Cloud City.  Anakin/Vader had C-3PO and R2-D2 with him when he was at Owen's Lars place (when he went to save his mother).  But Owen didn't recognize either C-3PO or R2-D2 when he bought them 16 years later.  Well 16 years is a long time.  Darth Maul isn't dead by being severed and and I thought Darth was a first name, only to find it is a title.  Which Obi Wan uses as a first name.  And midi-chlorians? Really?

So?  Outside of the Original Trilogy there are a lot of things out of context.  And even in the original movies Lucas seemed more interested in special effects that editing errors.  Add to that on my BD Han didn't shoot first which changed Han's conversion and development.

On and on the wheel spins.  Whoo Hoo.

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Well, I can say something on C-3PO and Vadar: apparently, they released a little comic book about that interaction on Cloud City.\

And a point of order; Why did they ALLOW the group to keep C-3PO? Obviously they were aware Chewbacca was fixing him up (you don't leave their cell unsupervised....).

As for Owen and the droids, if you notice the farm seems to employ droids often and you don't get the sense Young Owen was paying much attention to the droids with Anakin, much less show that they had an impression on him.

Edited by Alexhurlbut

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15 minutes ago, Alexhurlbut said:

Well, I can say something on C-3PO and Vadar: apparently, they released a little comic book about that interaction on Cloud City.\

And a point of order; Why did they ALLOW the group to keep C-3PO? Obviously they were aware Chewbacca was fixing him up (you don't leave their cell unsupervised....).

As for Owen and the droids, if you notice the farm seems to employ droids often and you don't get the sense Young Owen was paying much attention to the droids with Anakin, much less show that they had an impression on him.

Plus, 3P0 didn't have his gold plating yet. Sure his voice remained the same, but I doubt Owen remembered something like that. 16 years of not hearing a voice, I don't think anyone could remember.

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23 minutes ago, MPG said:

Plus, 3P0 didn't have his gold plating yet. Sure his voice remained the same, but I doubt Owen remembered something like that. 16 years of not hearing a voice, I don't think anyone could remember.

plus, there are only so many types of droid, so I expect people met multiple, identical C3PO's and R2D2's over their lives. 

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43 minutes ago, Alexhurlbut said:

Well, I can say something on C-3PO and Vadar: apparently, they released a little comic book about that interaction on Cloud City.

Dark Horse comics' "Thank the Maker" (Legends) It's good bit of comic; I hope something else in the neocanon doesn't uproot it.  

Edited by jmswood

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Bojanglez

Thanks! That last panel gets me. And that does support my point of order: why didn't the Imperials confiscated C-3PO and scan his memories for Rebel secrets/intel or melt him down instead of letting his friends have him back? ;)

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I think this is my problem. 

When you tell a good and effective story you show the important parts. You don't need to take things literally as if they're the word of god but you have to treat dialogue somewhat seriously otherwise you dilute the original point of the story. 

If Tarkin says they're dead, when he's alone with his buddy Vader, he's telling the truth as he knows it. 

Forget everything else for just a moment. The original intent of a New Hope is that the Jedi Order is gone except for Obi Wan and Yoda. When Luke starts on the path of the Jedi its kind've a big deal, especially when Obi-Wan dies. Then we meet Yoda who is so old all he can do is impasse lessons (sure he's still strong but he's on his last legs). So the underlying gravitas of the entire OT is that Luke is it, if he fails the Jedi are wiped out from existence. Its what makes Return of the Jedi and his possible fall to the dark side so compelling, because there are actual stakes. Its what makes Luke's statement in the trailer for the Last Jedi all the more tragic.  

We can argue semantics all we want. We can make cases that sure other jedi could still be alive, its an absolutely massive freaking galaxy. Of course Kanan and Ezra could survive well into the OT, if you're creative enough anything can work. But what would really be the point to letting them live? They can't survive past the new Jedi being wiped out by Kylo Ren and snoke. They can't be in the Rebellion otherwise we would've heard Luke mention one of them to Yoda (and yes that's far too important to accept it was said offscreen). Sure you could argue Kanan is barely a Jedi and Ezra technically isnt but they're inextricably tied to the rebellion and their abilities are well known. 

Luke has certainly heard of them considering Leia, Wedge Antilles, Lando, Dodonna, Mon Mothma have met them and saw their abilities. If they weren't dead then Luke wouldve sought them out to team up with them or mentioned them. If Luke was to seek out another Jedi during the OT era I would argue yeah thats a really big story point to not have in one of the movies or at the very least to not mention.   

Edited by Forresto

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23 minutes ago, Alexhurlbut said:

Bojanglez

Thanks! That last panel gets me. And that does support my point of order: why didn't the Imperials confiscated C-3PO and scan his memories for Rebel secrets/intel or melt him down instead of letting his friends have him back? ;)

A pleasure!

and i don't know :)

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34 minutes ago, Alexhurlbut said:

Bojanglez

Thanks! That last panel gets me. And that does support my point of order: why didn't the Imperials confiscated C-3PO and scan his memories for Rebel secrets/intel or melt him down instead of letting his friends have him back? ;)

who says they didn't? Threepio was never all that instrumental in the planning of the rebellion's operations, or used to carry sensitive data. he was little more than Leia's butler, the way he was for Padme during the clone wars. it is likely the rebellion wiped his memory of any major meetings he translated for, and he wouldn't exactly carry much useful info otherwise. it is unlike he had data on where the rebel fleet was meeting up for example, or the routes the different ships would be taking.  what could Threepio tell them? where the Hoth and Yavin bases were? that turning up the heater units in an ice base is a bad idea?

the Droid the Empire needed to get the memory from was R2, since he carried navigational data, communications logs, etc. but he was with Luke.

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3 hours ago, Forresto said:

I think this is my problem. 

When you tell a good and effective story you show the important parts. You don't need to take things literally as if they're the word of god but you have to treat dialogue somewhat seriously otherwise you dilute the original point of the story. 

If Tarkin says they're dead, when he's alone with his buddy Vader, he's telling the truth as he knows it. 

Forget everything else for just a moment. The original intent of a New Hope is that the Jedi Order is gone except for Obi Wan and Yoda. When Luke starts on the path of the Jedi its kind've a big deal, especially when Obi-Wan dies. Then we meet Yoda who is so old all he can do is impasse lessons (sure he's still strong but he's on his last legs). So the underlying gravitas of the entire OT is that Luke is it, if he fails the Jedi are wiped out from existence. Its what makes Return of the Jedi and his possible fall to the dark side so compelling, because there are actual stakes. Its what makes Luke's statement in the trailer for the Last Jedi all the more tragic.  

We can argue semantics all we want. We can make cases that sure other jedi could still be alive, its an absolutely massive freaking galaxy. Of course Kanan and Ezra could survive well into the OT, if you're creative enough anything can work. But what would really be the point to letting them live? They can't survive past the new Jedi being wiped out by Kylo Ren and snoke. They can't be in the Rebellion otherwise we would've heard Luke mention one of them to Yoda (and yes that's far too important to accept it was said offscreen). Sure you could argue Kanan is barely a Jedi and Ezra technically isnt but they're inextricably tied to the rebellion and their abilities are well known. 

Luke has certainly heard of them considering Leia, Wedge Antilles, Lando, Dodonna, Mon Mothma have met them and saw their abilities. If they weren't dead then Luke wouldve sought them out to team up with them or mentioned them. If Luke was to seek out another Jedi during the OT era I would argue yeah thats a really big story point to not have in one of the movies or at the very least to not mention.   

There are a lot of assumptions. Kanan has already been talking about him and Ezra not being Jedi going into the Battle of Lothal, which I'm pretty certain is going to be the finale. And it isn't such a stretch to believe that the Battle of Lothal will leave the Imperials believing they are dead. There is still a lot of ways for this to play out. But again, I'm taking a bunch of other factors into consideration. We have Kanan, Rey, and Luke essentially echoing a third direction. And frankly, I am excited to see how this philosophy plays out. Because, as Luke said, they are all wrong. 

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Also worth noting if Kanan and Ezra are known to be alive by the Rebelion Bail sending Leia to find Obi Wan in Rogue One becomes a slightly odd decision.  Sure, he's a Jedi Master, but they have two young Jedi(ish) with recent combat experience against the Empire to hand.  Also, I really wouldn't bet against them having the corrage to kill off the pair of them.  Fives was a major character on the Clone Wars who we followed from training through to being up there with Rex and Codey.  They still killed him off in pretty brutal fashion.

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Jedi Master, Jedi Council Member, General of the clone wars, and a fairly successful one at that. I mean, when you are looking at getting things started on a military level, Kenobi has the kind of experience that can't be beat. I mean, about the only bigger hero of the Clone Wars was Anakin Skywalker, and well...

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But Bail knows who he is guarding, and if Kanan and Ezra are (known by the Rebelion to be) alive is it really worth playing that card to try and grab the Death Star plans?  IIRC that conversation is before they are told that Jyn has gone off reservation with a bunch of their top Spec Ops people.

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10 hours ago, Sithborg said:

There are a lot of assumptions. Kanan has already been talking about him and Ezra not being Jedi going into the Battle of Lothal, which I'm pretty certain is going to be the finale. And it isn't such a stretch to believe that the Battle of Lothal will leave the Imperials believing they are dead. There is still a lot of ways for this to play out. But again, I'm taking a bunch of other factors into consideration. We have Kanan, Rey, and Luke essentially echoing a third direction. And frankly, I am excited to see how this philosophy plays out. Because, as Luke said, they are all wrong. 

But thats my point. Luke already is that story, and so now is Rey so we dont need two other characters to tell that beyond this next season. And if thats the path Kanan and Ezra are on then its far too early for Luke to be influenced that direction. 

If Ezra was more force sensitive then an adept I could understand but Ezra mind controls stromtroopers! Ezra is taming animals and pushing and pulling people thriugh the force. we dont even get to see Luke do one of those thing until Return of the Jedi. 

He's too powerful and well known to be left alive and I dont think the Imperials will take anything short of a body as proof he's gone.

Edited by Forresto

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All these narrative problems with the droids and Kanan stem from shoe-horning their stories into the context of the OT. It's one of the reasons I hated the prequels. I hope Filoni and the story group get the courage to kill off Kanan and Ezra to at least tie up that thread. 

 

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