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STAR WARS: REBELS Discussion Thread!

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It's not though... It was the ship he made as his command ship, but it was captained by Pelleon...

Pelleon and Thrawn shouldn't have met yet.

Going by the old EU Thrawn shouldn't be a Great Admiral yet, they changed a few details about him, they can change when they met.

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It's not though... It was the ship he made as his command ship, but it was captained by Pelleon...

Pelleon and Thrawn shouldn't have met yet.

Going by the old EU Thrawn shouldn't be a Great Admiral yet, they changed a few details about him, they can change when they met.

 

Yes, including the name of his command ship.

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No, I mean all the concept art. For everything. Either every ship and every character in Rebels is called Wolf or more likely Wolf refers to something to do with the production as opposed to anything in universe.

Ohh, I see now.  Thanks.

 

I guess I just assumed that since Thrawn's ship in TIE Fighter was the Grey Wolf that they were referencing that game.

 

Okay, yeah.  If this ship is supposed to be the Chimera, then the decal makes a lot more sense.

Also, even when Thrawn appreciates art, at no point he declares himself a graphical artist. He considers himself and artist of war.

You can like the Beatles like crazy and still go around in a car that doesn't have Lennon's face painted on it.

Well, it's not like he painted it himself.

If you like the Beatles, and actually hold total authority over them, maybe you make Paul McCartney write you a song. Likewise, maybe Thrawn had an artist he particularly likes decorate his ship.

 

 

I think the term Wolf is probably related how Commander Wolf is Dave Filoni's favorite clone trooper, so it is probably just a little in joke used on the show's production side. 

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It's not though... It was the ship he made as his command ship, but it was captained by Pelleon...

Pelleon and Thrawn shouldn't have met yet.

 

This is Nucanon Thrawn. While maintaining the traits of the OG EU Thrawn he's not going to be exactly the same. They made him a Grand Admiral this early because he's most distinctive at that rank and they're going to try and maintain what makes him iconic. Chimera is most certainly his ship if that decal beneath is to be believed or it could just be another star destroyer and the Chimera motif is just another nod, like the shot when the lizard statues are on his shoulders reminiscent of yslamari.   

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Your asterisks are uncalled for. Don't curse people for having an opinion.

Don't vernacular-shame him.  The forum has a language filter for a reason, and he's free to make use of it.

There is no ethical difference between abusive language and abusive intent. The language filter is a failsafe, not a scapegoat to justify reproachable behavior.

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Thrawn let everyone escape too easily, sent too few ships to deal with the Iron Squadron.

It's like his primary objective was that 1: Konstantin were put in evidence, and 2: the Iron Squadron joined the rebels.

 

Who is this Iron Squadron? The Rebels didn't know.

Who gave them explosives?

Why their leader insisted on staying, just to immediately send a distress call that would probably attract and expose Sato's flagship?

Why Thrawn didn't open fire on the fleeing rebels, neither used the tractor beams on the Chimaera (something that was established to exist from season 1)?

 

Thrawn is about studying his opponent. He knew everything about Hera's family.

Perhaps he knows everything about Sato's too.

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Finally finished the Thrawn Trilogy in entirety for the first time. Wow what an amazing trilogy of books. I hope we get to see Thrawn victorious without dying. I feel that just like the books he will die at the end of this season but I really hope not. He's such a fantastic character. Man his final scene in the Last Command was, and I do mean this about a Star Wars book, actually kind've sad. I can't believe i'm saying that but I genuinely felt connected to the character a bit.

In an interview, Dave Filoni expressed concern for portraying Thrawn without allowing the Rebels to thwart him personnally in every episode. I think they've done a fine job of walking that fine line between letting the good guys win and maintaining Thrawn as a credible threat.

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There is no ethical difference between abusive language and abusive intent.

In your opinion. The fact remains, using bad language doesn't violate forum rules, only trying to cheat the language filter is.

 

In an interview, Dave Filoni expressed concern for portraying Thrawn without allowing the Rebels to thwart him personnally in every episode. I think they've done a fine job of walking that fine line between letting the good guys win and maintaining Thrawn as a credible threat.

I think they're doing a less fine job the longer the season continues. After awhile, it becomes ridiculous that Thrawn's plan is apparently "Let the Rebels win and/or escape every time".

"Oh, well that was his plan, so he technically won." Eventually, it just starts to seem like a stupid plan.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Thrawn let everyone escape too easily, sent too few ships to deal with the Iron Squadron.

It's like his primary objective was that 1: Konstantin were put in evidence, and 2: the Iron Squadron joined the rebels.

 

Who is this Iron Squadron? The Rebels didn't know.

Who gave them explosives?

Why their leader insisted on staying, just to immediately send a distress call that would probably attract and expose Sato's flagship?

Why Thrawn didn't open fire on the fleeing rebels, neither used the tractor beams on the Chimaera (something that was established to exist from season 1)?

 

Thrawn is about studying his opponent. He knew everything about Hera's family.

Perhaps he knows everything about Sato's too.

From Thrawn's first appearance in Rebels, the show made it clear that Thrawn's target is the entire Rebel fleet. He's not going to destroy the token peices he believes will eventually lead him to his ultimate goal. Thrawn is hunting, Phenix squadron are his hounds, they just don't know it yet.

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I was so excited when I saw the yt-2400 in the preview for season 3. I knew it wouldn't be Dash Rendar, but the "ship full of Ezras"....very much a let down, we do not have literally any reason to care if these idiots die or not. Was cool to learn that Thrawn and Sato have history though

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There is no ethical difference between abusive language and abusive intent.

In your opinion. The fact remains, using bad language doesn't violate forum rules, only trying to cheat the language filter is.

I'll agree that you are technically correct; forum rules were not broken. The intent of my opinion (and I admit it is just an opinion) is fostering a more positive environment; ideally an environment in which a language filter is unnecessary.

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There is no ethical difference between abusive language and abusive intent.

In your opinion. The fact remains, using bad language doesn't violate forum rules, only trying to cheat the language filter is.

 

In an interview, Dave Filoni expressed concern for portraying Thrawn without allowing the Rebels to thwart him personnally in every episode. I think they've done a fine job of walking that fine line between letting the good guys win and maintaining Thrawn as a credible threat.

I think they're doing a less fine job the longer the season continues. After awhile, it becomes ridiculous that Thrawn's plan is apparently "Let the Rebels win and/or escape every time".

"Oh, well that was his plan, so he technically won." Eventually, it just starts to seem like a stupid plan.

 

 

Actually, this episode established something very important for Thrawn. Sato is willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING to save family. Thrawn (correctly) assumes that the rebellion is bigger than just the single phonex cell and he is determined to create a scenario which brings the whole rebel fleet into a trap … something which was only achieved in canon with the trap at endor … at least so far. Even at the battle of Yavin the Alliance HQ decides to send away the fleet and just engage the deathstar with 30 fighters instead. 

So far Thrawn is winning each episode. He draws the right conclusions and gains the informations he want about the rebel leaders, he basically just needs now a suitable trap which lures the alliance fleet into a battled based on Satos and Hera's desire to save their family. We might see finally a big space battle at the end of season 3.

There is the story of the failed attack on the death star in construction, it is a rather bad story, but Filoni should be aware of even the bad stories of the EU. 

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I also realized something that excuses Thrawn continually letting the rebels escape. He's not trying to merely destroy this cell but he's attempting to uproot the Rebellion network from Phoenix Cell to connecting cells. If he were to just obliterate the Phoenix cells the others would go into hiding and the rebellion would persist indefinitely. Remember in A New Hope the Empire and Tarkin are trying desperately to find the Rebel's central base of operations. 

 

At this point from an Imperial perspective I think its a safe bet the Death Star's super laser is not looking a hopeful prospect two years out since they seem to only just have it working in Rogue One. So Thrawn is playing the long game with what assets he has.

 

Here's another point. Thrawn has never engaged the Rebels directly as of yet and so far has allowed clearly incompetent commanders engage them from Titus to Slavis and to Konstantine. This is beneficial in three ways. One the Rebels never get to see Thrawn and how he controls a battle so he stays an unknown and therefore they cannot strategize against him. By allowing incompetent officers to engage the Rebels he lures the Rebels into a false sense of security and ill conceived notion of invincibility that will cost them when Thrawn finally strikes. Finally by sitting back and observing Thrawn can analyze his opponents and behaviors because honestly the Rebels aren't doing anything they haven't been for the past three years. Why not spend another year to watch, as logically a year more won't make too much more of a difference.

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I also realized something that excuses Thrawn continually letting the rebels escape. He's not trying to merely destroy this cell but he's attempting to uproot the Rebellion network from Phoenix Cell to connecting cells. If he were to just obliterate the Phoenix cells the others would go into hiding and the rebellion would persist indefinitely. Remember in A New Hope the Empire and Tarkin are trying desperately to find the Rebel's central base of operations. 

 

At this point from an Imperial perspective I think its a safe bet the Death Star's super laser is not looking a hopeful prospect two years out since they seem to only just have it working in Rogue One. So Thrawn is playing the long game with what assets he has.

 

Here's another point. Thrawn has never engaged the Rebels directly as of yet and so far has allowed clearly incompetent commanders engage them from Titus to Slavis and to Konstantine. This is beneficial in three ways. One the Rebels never get to see Thrawn and how he controls a battle so he stays an unknown and therefore they cannot strategize against him. By allowing incompetent officers to engage the Rebels he lures the Rebels into a false sense of security and ill conceived notion of invincibility that will cost them when Thrawn finally strikes. Finally by sitting back and observing Thrawn can analyze his opponents and behaviors because honestly the Rebels aren't doing anything they haven't been for the past three years. Why not spend another year to watch, as logically a year more won't make too much more of a difference.

It really does make sense, storytelling-wise and strategically. Imagine fighting a battle where you anticipate every single move your enemy makes. I think that's what Thrawn wants. You guys would know better than me, I don't know much about the EU Thrawn.

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I also realized something that excuses Thrawn continually letting the rebels escape. He's not trying to merely destroy this cell but he's attempting to uproot the Rebellion network from Phoenix Cell to connecting cells. If he were to just obliterate the Phoenix cells the others would go into hiding and the rebellion would persist indefinitely. Remember in A New Hope the Empire and Tarkin are trying desperately to find the Rebel's central base of operations. 

 

At this point from an Imperial perspective I think its a safe bet the Death Star's super laser is not looking a hopeful prospect two years out since they seem to only just have it working in Rogue One. So Thrawn is playing the long game with what assets he has.

 

Here's another point. Thrawn has never engaged the Rebels directly as of yet and so far has allowed clearly incompetent commanders engage them from Titus to Slavis and to Konstantine. This is beneficial in three ways. One the Rebels never get to see Thrawn and how he controls a battle so he stays an unknown and therefore they cannot strategize against him. By allowing incompetent officers to engage the Rebels he lures the Rebels into a false sense of security and ill conceived notion of invincibility that will cost them when Thrawn finally strikes. Finally by sitting back and observing Thrawn can analyze his opponents and behaviors because honestly the Rebels aren't doing anything they haven't been for the past three years. Why not spend another year to watch, as logically a year more won't make too much more of a difference.

Oh, god, thank you. Someone else who gets that a war cannot be won in a single battle, and that one ship does not a Rebellion make.

Thrawn is keenly aware of the larger rebellion, which does exist. He wants to see how it all links together.

Thrawn isn't aiming for the tip of the spear.

 

He's aiming for the Haft.

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"Shift the blame", when executing the person in the lowest possible place in the chain of command. 

 

He did it for his own satisfaction or to scare the crew, unless he doesn't understand how the military structure works.

 

Of course the guy who got killed wasn't to blame, the officer in charge of the battery was responsible for what happened, either the training was incomplete or the person manning the tractor beam didn't pass it with acceptable results, in which case he shouldn't be there - again, officer's fault.

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Of course the guy who got killed wasn't to blame, the officer in charge of the battery was responsible for what happened, either the training was incomplete or the person manning the tractor beam didn't pass it with acceptable results, in which case he shouldn't be there - again, officer's fault.

It's demonstrated later that if you don't make excuses like "I wasn't trained for this" and show you at least tried to solve the problem, you get treated differently:

 

Heir to the Empire

 

The bridge was uncommonly quiet as Thrawn led the way to the aft stairway and descended into the starboard crew pit. He walked past the crewers at their consoles, past the officers standing painfully erect behind them, and came to a halt at the control station for the starboard tractor beams. "Your name," he said, his voice excruciatingly calm.

"Cris Pieterson, sir," the young man seated at the console answered, his eyes wary.

"You were in charge of the tractor beam during our engagement with the starfighter." It was a statement, not a question.

"Yes, sir - but what happened wasn't my fault."

Thrawn's eyebrows arched, just a bit. "Explain."

Pieterson started to gesture to the side, changed his mind in midmotion. "The target did something with his acceleration compensator that killed his velocity vector - "

"I'm aware of the facts," Thrawn cut in. "I'm waiting to hear why his escape wasn't your fault."

"I was never properly trained for such an occurrence, sir," Pieterson said, a flicker of defiance touching his eyes. "The computer lost the lock, but seemed to pick it up again right away. There was no way for me to know it had really picked up something else until - "

"Until the proton torpedoes detonated against the projector?"

Pieterson held his gaze evenly. "Yes, sir."

For a long moment Thrawn studied him. "Who is your officer?" he asked at last.

Pieterson's eyes shifted to the right. "Ensign Colclazure, sir."

Slowly, deliberately, Thrawn turned to the tall man standing rigidly at attention with his back to the walkway. "You are in charge of this man?"

Colclazure swallowed visibly. "Yes, sir," he said.

"Was his training also your responsibility?"

"Yes, sir," Colclazure said again.

"Did you, during that training, run through any scenarios similar to what just happened?"

"I... don't remember, sir," the ensign admitted. "The standard training package does include scenarios concerning loss of lock and subsequent reestablishment confirmation."

Thrawn threw a brief glance back down at Pieterson. "Did you recruit him as well, Ensign?"

"No, sir. He was a conscript."

"Does that make him less worthy of your training time than a normal enlistee?"

"No, sir." Colclazure's eyes flicked to Pieterson. "I've always tried to treat my subordinates equally."

"I see." Thrawn considered a moment, then half turned to look past Pellaeon's shoulder. "Rukh."

Pellaeon started as Rukh brushed silently past him; he hadn't realized the Noghri had followed them down. Thrawn waited until Rukh was standing at his side, then turned back to Colclazure. "Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake, Ensign?"

The entire bridge had gone deathly still. Colclazure swallowed again, his face starting to go pale. "No, sir."

"Anyone can make an error, Ensign. But that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." He raised a finger -

And, almost lazily, pointed.

Pellaeon never even saw Rukh move. Pieterson certainly never had time to scream.

From farther down the crew pit came the sound of someone trying valiantly not to be sick. Thrawn glanced over Pellaeon's shoulder again and gestured, and the silence was further broken by the sound of a pair of stormtroopers coming forward. "Dispose of it," the Grand Admiral ordered them, turning away from Pieterson's crumpled body and pinning Colclazure with a stare. "The error, Ensign," he told the other softly, "has now been corrected. You may begin training a replacement."

 
...
 
“Sir, if you knew that Skywalker’s escape was only temporary …?”

“The Empire is at war, Captain,” the Grand Admiral said, his voice cold. “We cannot afford the luxury of men whose minds are so limited they cannot adapt to unexpected situations.”

 
 
The Last Command
 
Thrawn led the way to the aft stairway and descended to the starboard crew pit. He walked past the crewers at their consoles, past the officers standing stiffly behind them, and came to a halt at the control station for the starboard tractor beams. "Your name," he said quietly to the young man standing at rigid attention there.
"Ensign Mithel," the other said, his face pale but composed. The expression of a man facing his death.

"Tell me what happened, Ensign."

Mithel swallowed. "Sir, I had just established a positive lock on the freighter when it broke up into a cluster of trac-reflective particles. The targeting system tried to lock on all of them at once and went into a loop snarl."

"And what did you do?"

"I — sir, I knew that if I waited for the particles to dissipate normally, the target starfighter would be out of range. So I tried to dissipate them myself by shifting the tractor beam into sheer-plane mode."

"It didn't work."

A quiet sigh slipped through Mithel's lips. "No, sir. The target-lock system couldn't handle it. It froze up completely."

"Yes." Thrawn cocked his head slightly. "You've had a few moments now to consider your actions, Ensign. Can you think of anything you should have done instead?"

The young man's lip twitched. "No, sir. I'm sorry, but I can't. I don't remember anything in the manual that covers this kind of situation."

Thrawn nodded. "Correct," he agreed. "There isn't anything. Several methods have been suggested over the past few decades for counteracting the covert shroud gambit, none of which has ever been made practical. Yours was one of the more innovative attempts, particularly given how little time you had to come up with it. The fact that it failed does not in any way diminish that."

A look of cautious disbelief was starting to edge into Mithel's face. "Sir?"

"The Empire needs quick and creative minds, Ensign," Thrawn said. "You're hereby promoted to lieutenant... and your first assignment is to find a way to break a covert shroud. After their success here, the Rebellion may try the gambit again."

"Yes, sir," Mithel breathed, the color starting to come back into his face. "I — thank you, sir."

"Congratulations, Lieutenant Mithel." Thrawn nodded to him, then turned to Pellaeon. "The bridge is yours, Captain. Resume our scheduled flight. I'll be in my command room if you require me."

"Yes, sir," Pellaeon managed.

And stood there beside the newly minted lieutenant, feeling the stunned awe pervading the bridge as he watched Thrawn leave. Yesterday, the Chimaera's crew had trusted and respected the Grand Admiral. After today, they would be ready to die for him.

And for the first time in five years, Pellaeon finally knew in the deepest level of his being that the old Empire was gone. The new Empire, with Grand Admiral Thrawn at its head, had been born.

Edited by Ironlord

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So? Does it make the other guy, unjustfully killed, as he was right to shift the blame (and Thrawn didn't even bother to investigate, just took officer's word for granted, and the officer surely wouldn't lie to cover his back) come back to life?

 

Not killing your own men when they fail in unusual situations they weren't prepared for is completely normal. Thrawn doesn't deserve any praise for that.

 

Vader at least did his cleaning in the top of the command structure, killing people who were actually responsible for failures.

Edited by eMeM

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Soon or later we will see in Rebels something like:

 

- Officer: "Admiral, the rebel ships have just jumped hyperspace"

- Thrawn: "Send our fighters in pursuit"

- Officer: "Admiral, we don´t have hyperspace capable fighters"

- Thrawn: "Right, I think we need new designs... prepare my ship and arrange a meeting with engineers from Cygnus Spaceworks, probably the have an idea"

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