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Electris

Next Expansion?

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I know we were getting spoiled this year with all the Descent expansions and H&M sets, but I'm wondering if there's been any news for another expansion. I expect it would be a mini-expansion to "balance" Manor of Ravens by adding 1 more class of the 2 colors not represented in MoR.

 

Has anyone heard anything?

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So far, their current trend has been to release one small box expansion, followed by a large box, then a small box (with the 2 classes not used in the previous small box), etc., etc.

 

I'm a bit surprised they haven't announced something else, but at the same time, it's a bit of a relief to not have to worry about buying another expansion so soon.  :P  I welcome the current break!

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I think the next "big box" expansion (which would be next if the pattern continues) should include more allies. Probably warrior and mage.

i could not agree more with you.

 

Would be strange. Each expansion should bring new mechanics and stuff. Why making a new ally campaign could be of some use ?

 

I hope next expansion will add something really new like morphing heroes and/or monsters, or an Uthuk themed expansion.

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I would actually really like to see the next big box expansion be a series of large 1 off quests designed around the principles of 1st ED, maintain the overlord vs players (so not a co op game like forgotten souls), and give a way to do large scale dungeon crawling without having to homebrew it.

Unlikely given the campaign focus of 2ED (which i love) but it would be cool to see the older style officially supported.

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While it would be interesting to have a big box that's a departure from "normal" D2E, I'm a little disappointed that people seem to undervalue the quest vault and the overall customization of this game. Every time I see a forum post about nerfing particular abilities or changing particular rules or game mechanics, I think that the person could just as easily design a quest (or an entire campaign) that uses those rules. There exists the opportunity to freely create whatever contrived version of Descent you like- whether that be a skirmish mode, an "Act 3" quest (make setup rules about the heroes choosing skill cards/shopping and special rules about the monster groups gaining X health per hero and new surge abilities,) etc. It's true, you don't have access to everything- you can't design new OL cards on there, coop or otherwise. BGG has templates for most of the cards if that's really your cup of tea, though- there have been entirely new classes created.

 

This definitely goes for the 1E style. I've made a map (though haven't published it yet) where there are multiple corridors connected by passageways of a color known only to the OL (that is, the heroes don't know quite how to get to the end of the map) and on each of the new sections, the OL selects ahead of time which monster group will appear there when the heroes first enter the area. Of course, that's nothing- Madmartigan has made an entire set of rules to play 2E like 1E. 

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I kind of would like to see a campaign where the OL is a fluid role which changes as the campaign moves along. Maybe there could be a corrupting relic that when carried turns a hero into the OL and that player must keep the other heroes from stealing it. Sort of like a capture the flag, hot potato kind of thing. The campaign can go down different quest paths depending on what secret agendas each players have from the start of the game. I am envisioning a secret agenda deck that each player draws a card from and never shares what their agenda is until they manage to take the relic and become the OL. So after a hero gets the relic his/her agenda becomes know and may effect the way the other heroes interact with him/her when they lose the relic and return to the heroes team. 

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I would actually really like to see the next big box expansion be a series of large 1 off quests designed around the principles of 1st ED, maintain the overlord vs players (so not a co op game like forgotten souls), and give a way to do large scale dungeon crawling without having to homebrew it.

Unlikely given the campaign focus of 2ED (which i love) but it would be cool to see the older style officially supported.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Even more so, I would love to see campaign in old 1st. edition style. I want real conflict and heroes death, not some lame knock out rules. One of the best thing of 1st edition was the fact that Overlord was coming after you and actively sought to kill heroes - it was thematically perfect for dungeon crawl. 2nd edition is a pretty nice game, but instead of epic quests we have some racing for the crops (FFG, really?), lame knock out rules, zero exploration and very limited monster spawn.

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I want real conflict and heroes death, not some lame knock out rules. One of the best thing of 1st edition was the fact that Overlord was coming after you and actively sought to kill heroes - it was thematically perfect for dungeon crawl. 2nd edition is a pretty nice game, but instead of epic quests we have some racing for the crops (FFG, really?), lame knock out rules, zero exploration and very limited monster spawn.

I do not understand the above reflexion.

That just defeats the point of having a human overlord, if all there is to do is to put your brain aside and go throw some monsters at the heroes. Just so the heroes spend 3 more hours to "explore" e.g. open all treasure chests there is, instead of 30 minutes if the corridors were left empty. Sounds like a great game like almost every single other game there is out there, as opposed to what makes Descent 2E unique. To each his own I suppose.

But what a shame if 2E turned into this thing. Again we´re back to the mindset of having a gang of heroes masturbating at the view of their gear and skills, piercing through monsters like butter until they find a treasure chest with even more gear 4 hours afterwards. The Overlord (or lieutenant) has nothing else to do than staying in his throne room waiting to be slayed. There's no strategy left in the game other than planning your attacks. The best thing you can do EVERY TURN is always going to be an attack. Because the more monsters you kill the faster you get to the treasure. Cool!

Running for the crops sounds anti-climatic? That was a brilliant idea from FFG and it totally makes sense with regards to the second encounter of the quest. Why the **** not?

Knock out rules integrate very well with the game system. It makes the game flow and gives a temporary edge to the Overlord. Reviving knocked out heroes doesn't feel anti-climatic to me since this is fantasy. Globally speaking, having a finite health puts pressure on the heroes as for whether taking an action that would put them at risk, or trying to rest for coming back the next turn. It also makes them work together a lot more since death is a lot more common thing to experience in that game.

Exploration is non-existent in this game but that's not what this game is intended for anyway. Descent is nothing else than a tactical game, which a dungeon delver game is not (for good or bad).

Not sure what you mean by "limited monster spawns" but I find the reinforcement rules to work very well in most quests.

Edited by Indalecio

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I want real conflict and heroes death, not some lame knock out rules. One of the best thing of 1st edition was the fact that Overlord was coming after you and actively sought to kill heroes - it was thematically perfect for dungeon crawl. 2nd edition is a pretty nice game, but instead of epic quests we have some racing for the crops (FFG, really?), lame knock out rules, zero exploration and very limited monster spawn.

I can understand some people being disappointed with the theme of "knocking out" heroes instead of "killing" them, however, speaking strictly in terms of mechanics, I think the 2E system is way, way better. If you want your heroes to die, you could thematically say that KO = death and the hero is being resurrected by some magic stone rather than "waking up" later.

Thematically speaking that's about equivalent to 1E's heroes "dying and then being resurrected in town even though their body was never transported there." And the mechanics of 2E's system - forcing a hero to "res" where he fell down - has huge implications on tactics, for the better IMHO. No more running into a room full of monsters to grab the chest because you don't care that they'll kill you.

As for zero exploration and racing to objectives, again I can understand the complaint, but it can be easily solved by making homebrew quests. Heck, there are a couple of conversions for old 1E quests into 2E mechanics already out there (I wrote one myself), so you could actually go back and play those old 1E quests if you really wanted to.

Also, I believe it was Madmardigan who made a random dungeon generator in the style of 1E dungeons for 2E players. The options are out there, my friend. And they're a heck of a lot cheaper than an official expansion from FFG would be (assuming you already own the necessary bits anyway.)

Edited by Steve-O

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I would actually really like to see the next big box expansion be a series of large 1 off quests designed around the principles of 1st ED, maintain the overlord vs players (so not a co op game like forgotten souls), and give a way to do large scale dungeon crawling without having to homebrew it.

Unlikely given the campaign focus of 2ED (which i love) but it would be cool to see the older style officially supported.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Even more so, I would love to see campaign in old 1st. edition style. I want real conflict and heroes death, not some lame knock out rules. One of the best thing of 1st edition was the fact that Overlord was coming after you and actively sought to kill heroes - it was thematically perfect for dungeon crawl. 2nd edition is a pretty nice game, but instead of epic quests we have some racing for the crops (FFG, really?), lame knock out rules, zero exploration and very limited monster spawn.

 

 

To each his own. I however like the ambiguity in Descent 2E.

 

The OL could bring his monsters in position to go after you or to further his objective. The heroes have to further their objective and maybe killing monsters helps them, but maybe they just lose actions and they shouldn't strait out kill them, but do something else. Death is not permanent which allows the heroes to take much more risks. If they die and are revived they usally come back with full fatigue and half their health, which is totally different than "nothing happend" it is not the end of the game however, so I can only say I think this penalty is well designed.

 

If you only remember securing crops you may have played a different game than me.

I remember looking for maps and clues to arrive at certain places in crucial moments for the evil forces, lightening beacons at an outpost to warn the city of an imminent raid and disturbing a dark knight who tries to get a mythical blade by slaying a dragon, taking the sword from him and leaving the dragon's chamber as fast as possible.

Edited by DAMaz

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Well said. I'm trying to make use of the Quest Vault recently, I think it's a very powerful (and FREE) tool for customizing Descent. I'm very happy with what D2E is, and I don't want it to be D1E. For those that do, I very much agree, Steve-o, the options are there- comprehensive rule changes like Madmartigan designed, much smaller mechanical changes (like the encounters during travel I just made, or something as simple as quests utilizing special rules that either make monsters or layout of the map secret, prevent the heroes from standing up after X number of knockouts, etc. I'm all for expansions that are ambitious and introduce new and different mechanics- but I'd like one that stays inside the bounds of what D2E is.

Edited by Zaltyre

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I want real conflict and heroes death, not some lame knock out rules. One of the best thing of 1st edition was the fact that Overlord was coming after you and actively sought to kill heroes - it was thematically perfect for dungeon crawl. 2nd edition is a pretty nice game, but instead of epic quests we have some racing for the crops (FFG, really?), lame knock out rules, zero exploration and very limited monster spawn.

I do not understand the above reflexion.

That just defeats the point of having a human overlord, if all there is to do is to put your brain aside and go throw some monsters at the heroes. Just so the heroes spend 3 more hours to "explore" e.g. open all treasure chests there is, instead of 30 minutes if the corridors were left empty. Sounds like a great game like almost every single other game there is out there, as opposed to what makes Descent 2E unique. To each his own I suppose.

But what a shame if 2E turned into this thing. Again we´re back to the mindset of having a gang of heroes masturbating at the view of their gear and skills, piercing through monsters like butter until they find a treasure chest with even more gear 4 hours afterwards. The Overlord (or lieutenant) has nothing else to do than staying in his throne room waiting to be slayed. There's no strategy left in the game other than planning your attacks. The best thing you can do EVERY TURN is always going to be an attack. Because the more monsters you kill the faster you get to the treasure. Cool!

Running for the crops sounds anti-climatic? That was a brilliant idea from FFG and it totally makes sense with regards to the second encounter of the quest. Why the **** not?

Knock out rules integrate very well with the game system. It makes the game flow and gives a temporary edge to the Overlord. Reviving knocked out heroes doesn't feel anti-climatic to me since this is fantasy. Globally speaking, having a finite health puts pressure on the heroes as for whether taking an action that would put them at risk, or trying to rest for coming back the next turn. It also makes them work together a lot more since death is a lot more common thing to experience in that game.

Exploration is non-existent in this game but that's not what this game is intended for anyway. Descent is nothing else than a tactical game, which a dungeon delver game is not (for good or bad).

Not sure what you mean by "limited monster spawns" but I find the reinforcement rules to work very well in most quests.

 

 

I can assure you that games where each side of the conflict is actively trying only to destroy other side are not shallow and mechanically repetitive. For example, for a few years I played Warhammer Fantasy Battle at the tournament level - it is one of those games where each side tries only to wipe out as much of enemy units as it can - and mostly there were deep, dramatic, and skill demanding battles. The same case can be made for Descent - the fact that Overlord is trying to kill heroes absolutely doesn't have to mean that games will be shallow and boring - this assumption is ridiculous. Of course it needs the right game system - and in my opinion Descent's one is right for this, after some slight adjustments.

 

Also why do you assume that if Descent 2ed. introduced real conflict and direct confrontation it would mean that it will repeat faults of its predecessor?

 

Case in point - in Imperial Assault (which in opinion of many is improved Descent 2ed.) heroes death made a comeback.

 

 

I want real conflict and heroes death, not some lame knock out rules. One of the best thing of 1st edition was the fact that Overlord was coming after you and actively sought to kill heroes - it was thematically perfect for dungeon crawl. 2nd edition is a pretty nice game, but instead of epic quests we have some racing for the crops (FFG, really?), lame knock out rules, zero exploration and very limited monster spawn.

I can understand some people being disappointed with the theme of "knocking out" heroes instead of "killing" them, however, speaking strictly in terms of mechanics, I think the 2E system is way, way better. If you want your heroes to die, you could thematically say that KO = death and the hero is being resurrected by some magic stone rather than "waking up" later.

Thematically speaking that's about equivalent to 1E's heroes "dying and then being resurrected in town even though their body was never transported there." And the mechanics of 2E's system - forcing a hero to "res" where he fell down - has huge implications on tactics, for the better IMHO. No more running into a room full of monsters to grab the chest because you don't care that they'll kill you.

As for zero exploration and racing to objectives, again I can understand the complaint, but it can be easily solved by making homebrew quests. Heck, there are a couple of conversions for old 1E quests into 2E mechanics already out there (I wrote one myself), so you could actually go back and play those old 1E quests if you really wanted to.

Also, I believe it was Madmardigan who made a random dungeon generator in the style of 1E dungeons for 2E players. The options are out there, my friend. And they're a heck of a lot cheaper than an official expansion from FFG would be (assuming you already own the necessary bits anyway.)

 

 

Why do I have to resort to amateur expansions when it comes to real dungeon crawl and dramatic tension, and not offical expansion?

I would rather buy next official Descent expansion which truly changes and expands game - (real dungeon crawl, heroes death), then wasting my money on another campaign giving more of the same of Labirynth of Ruin or Shadows of Nerekhall. Expansions that changes or revolutionize the game are the best because they do what their name suggest - expands the game.

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Why do I have to resort to amateur expansions when it comes to real dungeon crawl and dramatic tension, and not offical expansion?

I would rather buy next official Descent expansion which truly changes and expands game - (real dungeon crawl, heroes death), then wasting my money on another campaign giving more of the same of Labirynth of Ruin or Shadows of Nerekhall. Expansions that changes or revolutionize the game are the best because they do what their name suggest - expands the game.

 

 

Labyrinth of Ruin and Nerekhall absolutely expanded the game- on top of the new campaign missions there were new monsters, heroes, classes (for the heroes and the OL,) and game mechanics. This game has grown tremendously from its base game release. Expanding D2E and turning D2E back into D1E are different things. 

 

Additionally, I'm not sure what everyone means when they say D2E lacks dramatic tension- our games can get very close, with each roll seeming to make the difference between victory and defeat. My player might not stay knocked down, but needing to be revived could very will cost our entire party a precious relic, and ultimately the campaign.

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Why do I have to resort to amateur expansions when it comes to real dungeon crawl and dramatic tension, and not offical expansion?

You don't "have to," but I'm letting you know there are options out there. If you would prefer to sit here whining about how the game isn't what you want it to be when there are perfectly good fan-made options available, by all means, continue.

I would rather buy next official Descent expansion which truly changes and expands game - (real dungeon crawl, heroes death), then wasting my money on another campaign giving more of the same of Labirynth of Ruin or Shadows of Nerekhall. Expansions that changes or revolutionize the game are the best because they do what their name suggest - expands the game.

I agree that expansions which revolutionize the game are the best.

No one is forcing you to buy the expansions FFG releases if they don't suit your fancy, so there's absolutely no reason for you to waste your money on them.

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