Making the TIE Advanced work for you

[FTS Gecko 23,148]

...and the slowest lightsaber swing known to the galaxy

 

I still much prefer Vader's saber action to this:

 

[nikk whyte 3,868]

i thoroughly enjoy the advanced dial as is. one red move, and its the k turn? thats a great dial.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

Expose is great on Vader, aside from the fact you are paying 33pts for a PS9 pseudo X-wing that is stressed.

 

This, mostly. The problem is that when Vader uses Expose, he's a PS9 3/2/3/2 ship with no pilot ability and a single action. That makes him the same price, PS, and stat line as Wedge, with a better action bar but no pilot ability. That's not a good trade.

 

FFG has a fix on the way, as stated by designers Alex Davy and Frank Brooks in this Team Covenant interview at the 2014 GenCon...

 

Proton Rockets aren't terrible, but I suspect one of the fixes promised will include a Systems Upgrade slot so the Advanced TIE can use the Accuracy Corrector.  Imagine always having 2 guaranteed hits and a barrel roll or evade per turn, plus 3 evade dice.  That'll reboot the ship's popularity.  They also said there's more than a single fix.

 

That is incredibly boring.  ><  What.  Your action doesn't even matter.  You get two guaranteed hits every turn?  Nah.  I'd rather play for my victory.

In the hypothetical case of TIE Advanced + Accuracy Corrector, your action would still matter: target lock or focus for missiles, target lock for next round when you're anticipating Range 1, evade for defense, focus for defense, barrel roll for arc-dodging, and potentially boost as well.

You're still making consequential decisions about what your action should be, and you still have to fly the ship.

 

Original:  -3 cost.   Gains systems slot.  (Errata'd to no Accuracy Corrector proxies.)

 

Version 2:  -3 cost.  When you attack a ship you have a target lock, the defender rolls 1 less agility die (up to 0).

The problem with a cost reduction is that it makes the ship a massive outlier in terms of its defensive efficiency--without actually fixing its offensive problem (since 18 points is still probably too expensive for a ship with 2 Attack).

 

i thoroughly enjoy the advanced dial as is. one red move, and its the k turn? thats a great dial.

It's an okay dial with some nearly crippling omissions: it's the only ship without either straight-1 or turn-1 on the dial, its green maneuvers are oddly placed, and the single K-turn makes it predictable. The TIE Fighter dial is much, much better, and if you're looking for a short-term fix that's not a bad idea.

[TheRealStarkiller 3,446]

 

Give Vader Advanced Sensors for 1 point so he won't lose his actions because of bumps and k-turns.

If Vader uses AS he gets one action. Not two. So his pilot ability is lost.

 

 

Nonsense! The Dark Lord himself is above pettyfogging card text interpretations.

[nikk whyte 3,868]

maybe it's because I'm going into my matches with no expectations (seriously, my advanced list is named "this won't work") that I've been able to let go of preconceived notions and fly it well.

It may not hold up as far as the math goes, but it's passed the eye test as far as I'm concerend.

Edited November 10, 2014 by nikk whyte

[FTS Gecko 23,148]

 

 

Give Vader Advanced Sensors for 1 point so he won't lose his actions because of bumps and k-turns.

If Vader uses AS he gets one action. Not two. So his pilot ability is lost.

 

 

Nonsense! The Dark Lord himself is above pettyfogging card text interpretations.

 

If Vader had access to the Systems Upgrade slot, Accuracy Corrector or Sensor Jammer would probably be the go-to upgrades.

[TheJrade 105]

Has a TIE Avenger title card that gives +1 Firepower already been discussed?   That would seem to be the simple and efficient fix.   I recall being quite confused that the Advanced had firepower 2 in the first place, remembering blasting Rebels out of the sky in the TIE Fighter video game with 4 cannons.   Oldtimers will even recall that Vader flew an Avenger a time or two in the game.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

Has a TIE Avenger title card that gives +1 Firepower already been discussed?

Repeatedly. There are really two issues with it:

(1) The TIE Advanced is on the left, and the TIE Avenger is on the right.

The two are obviously visually distinct from one another, and FFG has been really focused on accuracy and scale in most of their models for X-wing Minis. A TIE Avenger title would be the first instance where a model clearly didn't match the ship that's represented, and even if FFG wanted to do that (which we can't really know) it's possible Disney/LFL would step on it.

 

(2) An Advanced with 3 Attack steps heavily on the toes of both the TIE Interceptor and Defender. In terms of design space, there just isn't enough room between the 18-point PS1 3/3/3/0, the 27-point PS6 3/3/4/1 (Royal Guard + Shield Upgrade + Hull Upgrade), and the 30-point PS1 3/3/3/3 to squeeze in a PS2 3/3/3/2 at any price. Dials help differentiate them, but not that much; any price you assign to a +1 Attack title risks makes something else obsolete.

[FTS Gecko 23,148]

Has a TIE Avenger title card that gives +1 Firepower already been discussed?   That would seem to be the simple and efficient fix.   I recall being quite confused that the Advanced had firepower 2 in the first place, remembering blasting Rebels out of the sky in the TIE Fighter video game with 4 cannons.   Oldtimers will even recall that Vader flew an Avenger a time or two in the game.

 

I think a lot of people would prefer to see the TIE Avenger in it's own right, rather than just another upgrade that needs to be added onto the TIE Advanced.

[TheJrade 105]

As for appearance, the TIE Advanced we have now is actually an entirely unique ship created for Vader, all other similar ships looked like the one on your leftmost picture above with the Interceptor-style pointed panels and were called 'Avengers'.

 

As for points the Imperial snubfighter room is pretty crowded any way you slice it, no way around that.   Still, before adding in unique pilots it would seem that the lower-level generics would be pretty close to parity in terms of value.   I think by using the 'Upgrade' Modification cards as a basis for pricing the stat increases on an Interceptor you are miscalculating the worth of the extra hit points.   Those cards have to be overpriced because they can be applied to anything in any combination.   From a game designer's point of view a 'native' hit point on a pilot card is cheaper than one you add with a modification.   Instead compare:

 

[24] Tempest + Avenger Title (3) - +1 PS, +2 Shields & Lock-on/Missile slot

 

[18] Alpha - Boost & better dial

 

It would just be a question of underpricing the Avenger title to make the complete package worth in the same manner that the Chardaan refit revitalized the A-Wing.   Obviously +1 Firepower is worth more than 3 points, but on the slightly overpriced Advanced it all works out in the end.

 

On an entirely unrelated note, how do I upload pictures to this "Gallery" the Help Topics speak of?

Edited November 10, 2014 by TheJrade

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

I think by using the 'Upgrade' Modification cards as a basis for pricing the stat increases on an Interceptor you are miscalculating the worth of the extra hit points.

I'm not using mods as a way to price stat increases: Royal Guard Pilot + Royal Guard TIE + Hull Upgrade + Shield Upgrade is an actual ship that can actually be flown. It has a better dial and a better action bar than the TIE Advanced, plus PS6 and an EPT, and it costs 27 points. That puts a pretty firm cap on what you could charge for a +1 Attack title.

But the cheaper the title is, the more pressure it puts on the Defender. If a hypothetical +1 Attacktitle cost 3 points, as you suggest, that means I can pay 24 points for a PS2 ship with a 3/3/3/2 stat line, a decent action bar, and a somewhat underpowered dial, or I can pay 30 points for a PS1 ship with a 3/3/3/3 stat line, a decent action bar, and a dial with better maneuvers but more red and no green banks.

There are some advantages to playing a Defender over your Avenger, but I don't think they're worth 6 points. Basically, I don't think there's a price for a +1 Attack title that doesn't push out either the Interceptor or the Defender

 

On an entirely unrelated note, how do I upload pictures to this "Gallery" the Help Topics speak of?

I don't know. I usually just find an image online, copy the URL into my clipboard, and then do this with square brackets instead of curly braces:

{img=URLGOESHERE.png}

If I really need to put something up that I can't find elsewhere (like a graph for Mathwing stuff), I put it in the public folder of my Dropbox and use the same board code.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Vorpal Sword

[heychadwick 11,354]

If they made ordenance a better option, you might see more people take the Tie Advanced.  Just a thought...

 

 

I will say that missiles on Vader are actually quite nice.  He can do the TL and Focus in one turn.  That can make most of those hits happen. 

[dakralter 51]

How about Vader with Squad Leader AND Experimental Interface?

EI on Vader basically gives two ships (Vader and whomever he passes the action to) PTL for less points and only one stress. It would help Vader's damage output and survivability, while boosting another member of the squad, for only 5 points. To the above point, if you do one more and give Vader rockets, you can Focus, TL and pass an action all in the same turn for just a stress.

[z0m4d 727]

 

FFG has a fix on the way, as stated by designers Alex Davy and Frank Brooks in this Team Covenant interview at the 2014 GenCon:

 

 

Proton Rockets aren't terrible, but I suspect one of the fixes promised will include a Systems Upgrade slot so the Advanced TIE can use the Accuracy Corrector.  Imagine always having 2 guaranteed hits and a barrel roll or evade per turn, plus 3 evade dice.  That'll reboot the ship's popularity.  They also said there's more than a single fix.

 

That is incredibly boring.  ><  What.  Your action doesn't even matter.  You get two guaranteed hits every turn?  Nah.  I'd rather play for my victory.  

 

Why is that boring?  Two guaranteed hits isn't that much worse than 3 rolled attack dice.  You still get an action for barrel roll (arc dodging), evade (turtle up), or focus (for your 3 evade dice).  Whether you outfit your whole squad with TIE Advanced this way, or just supplement with one, I find the option rather exciting.

 

The ship needs a firepower boost, a mobility increase AND probably a point reduction. 

It also needs a role, which should be:  tanky, mid-cost Imperial fighter.  Durable, adds to firepower via ordnance.  Support or command style support.  

 

The Accuracy Corrector is a firepower boost.  The role is already made, and would be made stronger: tanky.  But by the interview comments, there are some title cards that will give different role options as further fixes.

 

This means that the ship should probably come with variable building, so a systems slot would have been most optimal until that idiotic Accuracy Corrector card.  

 

Why is it idiotic?

 

I really like the idea of using the Tie Fighter dial.  It makes sense too. Great idea.  

 

Fine for house games, but I doubt FFG will reissue the god-knows-how-many dials that were already produced.  For official tournament games, I think players are stuck with the same dial, which I'm fine with.  The Advanced is tankier, so it's less nimble.  Makes sense to me.