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Barbacuo

If you are making the Core set cards not 3x...

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On the support page of the 2nd ed, it shows that it needs 5 packs of sleeves to be fully sleeved. Which puts us at max 250 cards in the core set.

 

At 8 factions, I don't think there will be more than 30 cards per faction if there are really 8 full factions.

 

Which also means that it will probably be 1x per card, which I'm not a huge fan of.

Edited by OpT1mUs

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As a huge player of the CCG and then drifted away and looking to come back the GoT:LCGv2 is really exciting to me. 

 

I would be ok with 2x but fear they will do what they did with Star Wars.  You really got the CORE and then the first Deluxe which was truly the second half of the CORE and then you needed 2x for each which is more akin to 4x the original or at $40 a pop quite a chunk of change.

 

Either way, I am in.  When can I order :)

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You can't really put 3x of every card, and have support for 6+ factions, and have the decks be balanced, and come in under $40.

You almost don't WANT your core set to be fully satisfying. You *want* it to create demand for future sales.

If X-Wing, Netrunner, conquest, and Star Wars have shown us anything, it's that 2x core sets is kind of the sweet spot we should expect.

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If X-Wing, Netrunner, conquest, and Star Wars have shown us anything, it's that 2x core sets is kind of the sweet spot we should expect.

 

I can only speak for Netrunner, but there you need 3 cores to get a full playset of everything, because there are 12 (or) 1x cards included. Obviuously, the one-of cards are really strong (SanSan City Grid, Aesop's Pawnshop, Grimoire, etc.), too.

However, I still never bought (and never will buy) a third core set just to get 12 cards out of it. Not so much a question of the price - given how much I play the game another 40$ would be justified - but some ecological reasoning as it seems such a waste, because I'd never use 92% of the material... 

 

As for agot2e, with the new rotation system, basically you'd have to invest in a third core for a handful of cards that are torunament legal for 3-4 years tops, right?

 

I really hope there will be two copies of each card included, so we can get away with just having to buy two cores. But afaik Warhammer Conquest also requires the purchase of three core set, so I sure don't get my hopes up...

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Thats why 1x cards is more desirable tan eny other LCG card distribution (well, the Star Wars card distribution would be nice, buying 3 set for 2 complete playsets). I rather buy a third core set for the third copy of all the cards tan just for a few (or even half of them). Irregular card distribution is only a waste of cardboard and money.

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Actually I think most of the netrunner X1 were not worth really having 3 of a kind of. Many of them are the consoles which you can only have one of and cannot voluntarily trash them (Aesops aside), Aesops is unique, so also can only have one in play. I would only say that SanSan and the HB trashing one (can't remember the name) would likely want to have 3 of in a deck. 2x core set was plenty for competitive deck building.

 

What it really offends is just my completionist nature... it irritates me that I am never going to have a complete play set (though I have made up a couple of the gaps from the draft packs and promos).

 

The Star Wars distribution has been the least wasteful. 2X core sets made a complete play set. However, that was facilitated by the unique deck building method of that game, and the one sets of cards they provided multiple copies of in the core set was the set which you could only have one of in a deck. Now, I can see how they justify it (If you wanted to have the started decks all built up you would need two of each, as they all share that deck), but it does irritate me slightly.

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If X-Wing, Netrunner, conquest, and Star Wars have shown us anything, it's that 2x core sets is kind of the sweet spot we should expect.

 

I can only speak for Netrunner, but there you need 3 cores to get a full playset of everything, because there are 12 (or) 1x cards included. Obviuously, the one-of cards are really strong (SanSan City Grid, Aesop's Pawnshop, Grimoire, etc.), too.

However, I still never bought (and never will buy) a third core set just to get 12 cards out of it. 

 

As for agot2e, with the new rotation system, basically you'd have to invest in a third core for a handful of cards that are torunament legal for 3-4 years tops, right?

 

I really hope there will be two copies of each card included, so we can get away with just having to buy two cores. But afaik Warhammer Conquest also requires the purchase of three core set, so I sure don't get my hopes up...

 

I wouldn't say that. My friend from our meta just won the Worlds Conquest Warmup Tournament yesterday with 2x Core Sets. ;-)

But, I have been told Conquest is worse than Netrunner with just one Core. I don't actually know. I don't plan to invest in Conquest because A) my money is spoken for in AGOT and ANR and B) the 40K setting in general doesn't appeal to me at all. (It just makes no sense on any level.)

But, all that aside, that's why I called 2x Cores a "sweet spot." Rotation is not a concern, as Core Sets don't rotate.

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As a huge player of the CCG and then drifted away and looking to come back the GoT:LCGv2 is really exciting to me. 

 

I would be ok with 2x but fear they will do what they did with Star Wars.  You really got the CORE and then the first Deluxe which was truly the second half of the CORE and then you needed 2x for each which is more akin to 4x the original or at $40 a pop quite a chunk of change.

 

Either way, I am in.  When can I order :)

 

Conquest debuted at Gen Con 2014 and was in stores by October 3. So, that long after Gen Con next year. 

DO WANT!

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If they make this game so that you really can play with one core... It means a lot of 1 card are box, some 2 cards in box and maybe even some 3 cards in the box...

*sigh*

But the game play from the core has been very important to FFG and LOTR works fine with one core... Netrunner works fine with one core... The Star wars works somewhat with one core... Do you see the picture...

For HC player this is not so fine, but I can live with it!

Edited by Hannibal_pjv

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But, I have been told Conquest is worse than Netrunner with just one Core. I don't actually know. I don't plan to invest in Conquest because A) my money is spoken for in AGOT and ANR and B) the 40K setting in general doesn't appeal to me at all. (It just makes no sense on any level.)

 

 

I'm no expert on ANR, I only played for a while when it first came out and got sidetracked, but I would agree that it is probably the best LCG in terms of playability with just a single core. I love Conquest, it's a fantastic game, but customization just is not an option with a single core set.

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I'm somewhat disturbed that everyone in this thread seems okay with the idea of buying multiple core sets as a matter of course. It bothered me that one was expected/encouraged to buy two core sets of AGoT 1e. I would like to see 2e arranged in such a way that there is no need for a single player to buy multiple core sets.

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Assuming 3x of the cards +1 of each house card in the core would mean only 10 cards for each house. Probably not going to happen. I don't mind buying more than one core set, but uneven distribution annoys me. 1x of each, 30 cards for each house, seems like the best option. They can make that playable out of the box, and at the same time those of us who want complete playsets don't end up with lots of wasted cards. 2x is the next best option. Mixed quantities like in the 1e set will really, really disappoint me.

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I'm somewhat disturbed that everyone in this thread seems okay with the idea of buying multiple core sets as a matter of course. It bothered me that one was expected/encouraged to buy two core sets of AGoT 1e. I would like to see 2e arranged in such a way that there is no need for a single player to buy multiple core sets.

 

There has never been a single LCG Core Set that didn't require multiple purchases to get a complete playset. It's the nature of FFG's model. As someone who has played most of the LCGs (never played CoC or W:I. I have all the cards for AGOT; one core and the first three packs for LotR; two cores and the first two packs for Netrunner; two cores, two of the first expansion and the first five packs for Star Wars; and three cores for Conquest, and will buy Conquest packs as they come out.) I'm just not going to get up in arms over it. Expecting a complete cardpool for $40 is unreasonable, and a higher price point makes entry harder for a lot of players.

 

A singleton (or close to it, it'll probably be like Conquest) distribution for the 2E core set gives us the most card variety right out the gate. And given that it sounds like we'll be getting 8 factions in the core set, there's just no way to give us enough cards without getting a lot of singles. Which is fine. Less waste for the three core sets that I will almost certainly be ordering for this.

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I'm somewhat disturbed that everyone in this thread seems okay with the idea of buying multiple core sets as a matter of course. It bothered me that one was expected/encouraged to buy two core sets of AGoT 1e.

If you're a game company you *want* the core set to be less than 100%. You want people to play it a few times and say,

"Wow, this is fun, but if I just had more [_______] then i could build something interesting." That is called future sales. You don't want your core set to leave people saying "nah, I'm good, I've got what I need."

The incomplete nature of the core set reflects certain compromises, but frankly I think somewhere it's a written requirement.

Edited by Grimwalker

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I feel like we're arguing about two different things.

 

I don't expect the core set to be "complete" and leave no incentive for further investment in the game line. That's what expansions and chapter packs are for. I would like the core set to be built similar to the chapter pack model -- provide a limited number of options, but do not necessitate a second or third purchase in order to fully take advantage of them.

I understand that there's a more difficult balance to strike with the core set. If it simply provided 3x a limited number of cards, it wouldn't stand as well on its own. At the same time, if it contains one copy of a card that players will be expected to have three of in their deck, it swings too far in the other direction, forcing players to invest $120 and end up with a lot of useless filler just to cover their basics. This was part of the reason for the move from CCG to LCG.

I personally don't know the best way to solve that problem, but I think it is a problem that should be addressed. Maybe the individual house expansions could include 2x or 3x copies of important house cards from the core set. There are a lot of ways to tackle the problem while still leaving players with plenty of incentive to buy more products.

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I personally don't know the best way to solve that problem, but I think it is a problem that should be addressed. Maybe the individual house expansions could include 2x or 3x copies of important house cards from the core set. There are a lot of ways to tackle the problem while still leaving players with plenty of incentive to buy more products.

 

So they release the Core Set. It takes them, let's be generous, six months to release a deluxe expansion. They start coming out regularly, maybe two a year. So some of these house boxes won't be coming out for years into the game's life cycle. Four years into the game, they release the last house box. And they include multiple copies of an old card? Why would I want that?

 

The appeal of the deluxe expansions is to get new cards and new versions of old characters. I don't want the Lanni box to give me a complete set of the same Jaime and Cersei I've been playing with through the whole game; I want a new Jaime and Cersei.

 

I understand the frustration with the Core Set model, but multiple purchases makes the most sense. 

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Inclusions of core set cards in the deluxe sets is quite simply never going to happen.

For one thing, the logistics don't allow it. Every deluxe set since ever is one sheet with 55 cards, cut, stacked, wrapped, and then they put three of those in a box. The disruption of inserting 1-2 extra copies of certain cards is just unworkable.

Every LCG they make plus X-Wing benefits from two or more core sets. It's just the way they do it. Yes, a core set full of 1x cards like AGOT is crappy. But a core set of all 3x cards would probably be even more unplayable.

Edited by Grimwalker

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Every deluxe set since ever is one sheet with 55 cards, cut, stacked, wrapped, and then they put three of those in a box. The disruption of inserting 1-2 extra copies of certain cards is just unworkable.

I don't think that's correct. Princes of the Sun and Kings of the Sea are 60x3.

 

So they release the Core Set. It takes them, let's be generous, six months to release a deluxe expansion. They start coming out regularly, maybe two a year. So some of these house boxes won't be coming out for years into the game's life cycle. Four years into the game, they release the last house box. And they include multiple copies of an old card? Why would I want that?

Point taken, but that isn't the case for everyone. In my opinion, a buy in of three core sets can often be a turn off for new players.

As I said before, I don't have an obvious solution to offer, but I still think it's a problem worth bringing to the table. The move from CCG to LCG helped address similar problems, and that happened rather than everyone just saying, "Yeah, it sucks, but that's how it is." and leaving it at that. Just because no obvious answer jumps out at us within the span of a few forum posts doesn't mean there isn't a better solution.

Anyway, my point was to bring the thought here so that the development crew might see it and give it some thought. That's done, so I'll not press the point any further.

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Every deluxe set since ever is one sheet with 55 cards, cut, stacked, wrapped, and then they put three of those in a box. The disruption of inserting 1-2 extra copies of certain cards is just unworkable.

I don't think that's correct. Princes of the Sun and Kings of the Sea are 60x3.

 

 

True, but the important point is the number of duplicate copies, not necessarily the total number of unique cards. It's easier to manufacture them that way, as opposed to having to sort out which cards you're only including one or two of for whatever reason. It's why you end up with three copies of cards you really only need one of, like Agendas in AGOT and Identities in Netrunner.

 

And there are other exceptions. The new Conquest game bucks the trend somewhat with the Warlord squads, which don't fit the triplicate model. And it seems like they're doing something different with Identities in the newly announced Netrunner cycle. So there are ways around being stuck with everything in triplicate when they need to, but I think it's something they will want to avoid as much as possible.

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