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Dam the Man

Where Do You Stand: Horrible Black Void

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Yay or nay? If you run random endings, is HBV in the mix for you?

 

Those that have followed my postings over the years (here and on BGG), know that I LOVE me some HBV. Sure, it stings when you draw it, but it's Talisman, and to me (coming from 2nd edition where we loved HBV, nothing caused quite as roaring bouts of laughter than HBV getting drawn), pre-HBV Talisman just lacked something. So I was over the moon happy when HBV made its return.

 

By my stats, I've done 34 random ending games. Current pool is: Battle Royale, Crown and Sceptre, Hand of Doom, Horrible Black Void, Ice Queen, Pandora's Box. HBV has shown up a bit more than it should (if going by math, though as an infamous scoundrel once said: "never tell me the odds"), 8 times in 34 games. Given the lack of Reaperings and Toadings in general in R4th (yes, I still blame fate), HBV added some endgame shenanigans to screw over the first to the Crown, reinforcing once more my take on Talisman: race game where the first to the finish line doesn't always win  ;) .

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Horrible Black Void as been a staple of Talisman since the 80's, as much as I like the 4th revised edition, it did felt incomplete and awkward until its return to the game in the blood moon exp.

 

Cheers

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I like the HBV, but it is a bit too harsh without Timescape, and this may be 1 possible hint that Timescape may come. I found a balance by replacing the HBV with the Vortex found here:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/66629-black-void-ending-game-design-question/

Unfortunately it is no longer pictured or downloadable there.

 

If folks want to see the Vortex I suppose I can reload it. But I did not create the card. But I use it. It has shown up in 1 game so far.

 

At this time, fan made Alternate Endings are the only fan made content I use for 4th Revised. And I use a handful of them.
 

Edited by DomaGB

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As long as I'm using the Blood Moon expansion and using hidden endings, I'll always include the HBV.

 

My main group uses all expansions, so we include all 17 hidden endings (not including Crown of Command or Danse Macabre). It's not often the HBV is drawn, actually. When the Blood Moon first came out, there was still only a 1/10 chance with all expansions in... But when it's drawn, it's great.

Edited by Artaterxes

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It seems almost impossible to be the first (only one?) voice out of the chorus, but in my games the Horrible Black Void is normally put aside.

 

I don't blame FFG for reintroducing this classic Alternative Ending; as you all here testify, there are many fans out there that enjoy to see a destined winner suddenly struck by this card's tragic effect. Its mechanic fits perfectly into the randomness of Talisman, but unlike bad encounters that you may come across during the game, or avoid if you are lucky, this one is a trap set on the very last space, waiting for the first daring one to enter and be annihilated with no mercy. This is usually a character who is attempting to win, which is nothing shameful in a game that can last very long like Talisman.

 

We can hold it once in a while after a 2-hours game, but not as a reckless way to drag a big game that lasted for half a day, interfering with the game's winning conditions. It might be ok to include this card if you use all the other Alternative Endings, which often allow a character to win in a single turn without giving a chance to the others, but for an alternative endgame I prefer open Ending scenarios like Battle Royale, Hand of Doom, Spreading Flames, Crown of Flame or Judged by Fate. At least they will force the game to decide a winner, which isn't necessarily the character who reached the Crown first. HBV only kicks that character out of the game, and a player as well, which is against my concept of hospitality and feels meaningless to most of my co-players; therefore my decision to limit its use. :)

Edited by The_Warlock

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HBV only kicks that character out of the game

 

 

Unless you are using Timescape!

 

 

Yes, but Timescape is not part of Revised 4th Edition. Not yet.

 

I sincerely hope we won't see an expansion proposing fixes for material issued before. Errata and replacement cards are fine and I would like to see an expansion wrapping up this game as a whole, but please don't give us new mechanics to justify or mitigate effects that were judged too harsh later on.

Edited by The_Warlock

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I don't stand anywhere on the Horrible Black Void; once it engulfs you, you have no place left to stand :lol:.

 

Seriously, though, we include the Horrible Black Void in our standard line-up, along with the Crown of Command, the Demon Lord, Pandora's Box, Battle Royale, and the War of the Seasons.  When we're using Blood Moon we include the Werewolf ending and when we're using the Firelands we include the Crown of Flame and Spreading Flames.  

 

Like DomaGB, I greatly miss the Timescape board, as I consider that a far better outcome for everyone involved than the instant annihilation offered without Timescape.  Who knows, though, maybe FFG will release a Timescape themselves.

 

I can understand those who think the HBV unfair, yet even here there is a strategy to pursue.  Spend enough time in the Woodland and if you're lucky enough you can gain incredible insight into the hidden ending :).  

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I'm in the middle in the discussion about the HBV.

 

I don't mind that it exist, but the Talisman endings we can divide into:

 

1) a close match, a character followed by another character, and a simple mistake can decide who will win

2) a pretty bad game, and the only thing all the players want is someone actually to go to the CoC and win.

 

In the "1)" the HBV is a good thing - it might decide who will win the game. Though, not always. The new Ending card can also be so bad that the other character who was close to winning might end the game dead as well.

 

In the "2)" pretty much the Talisman game is trolling the players. The players want to end the game and go home; they reveal the Ending card, and it screams right into their faces - "This is not the end yet, you suckers! :P".

 

===

 

For me the only HBV is the one that moves to the TImescape AND is not removed from the game. I had a game during a Talisman tournament, I went to the CoC and drew the HBV, ended in the TS. I was followed by my friend, and next turn she also entered the CoC and drew the HBV. We both ended in the Timecape (and died there, because we were unable to cast the Healing Spells, and therefore eliminated from the ganme).

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My group and I like it in concept and always have it in the pile of possible hidden endings, however the fourth time (most recently) it hit someone we all agreed it's a bit too much of a slap in the face to the player that's winning, and then it forces the game to keep going with said player either just watching or rolling up a new character with now chance.

 

A fun house rule we came up with (that hasn't been used it) is to Superman II the HBV, in that we reversed it.  The player that draws it is the only one exempt  from it's effects.  :)  That also has the side effect of ending the game immediately, so we can start a new one!

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I don't love it. We have a PVP heavy table of 6 and even when my opponent gets nailed by it, I'm usually more annoyed than grateful. But in about 40 games we've played it's showed up twice. 

 

That being said we play almost exclusively by the rules and 9-10 games we play are with the Hidden Ending format.

 

For a while we were just playing Pandora's Box all the time, but now we are back to Standard Hidden Ending rotation. So HBV has about a 1 in 14 chance of showing up. (We don't have a standard Crown or Danse Macabre printed out, I suppose that would make it 1 in 16)

 

I suppose with Tapestry Rewoven out there it has some potential to be funny, though that is a very small, rare chance.

 

It's still part of the game, love it or hate it we play with it. One of our players really hates the Dragon tokens but loves HBV, so he rolls with it. another player hates the entire City expansion due to how much our table spends time in it, but he likes the Dragon tokens. So he rolls with it. It is what it is. a very small part of the game.

 

We're still playing with Luna, Alchemist, Scribe and Dragon tokens. ;)

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Yes yes yes, a thousand times YES for the HBV.

 

But we take random endings one step farther.  We even include (most) of the endings that are intended to be revealed endings--namely, the ones where you have to have a certain amount of something in order to win the game.  It's up to the player.  Does he want to spend the time to amass what he needs to cover his bases (risking losing the game in the process), or does he want to make a run for the Crown (knowing full well that he might draw an ending that he cannot accomplish at the moment)?

 

I know that not all of the endings work in this regard, but I haven't played in several months, so I can't recall which ones I exclude off the top of my head.

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I love the idea of it for nostalgia, but in reality it's a terrible card.

 

Let's eliminate a player in a game that might go on for 1-3 more hours. Yeah... no.  Making one person sit around for literally hours waiting for someone to win is silly.  Every time it's been drawn we just declared the game over anyway.  

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I love the idea of it for nostalgia, but in reality it's a terrible card.

 

Let's eliminate a player in a game that might go on for 1-3 more hours. Yeah... no.  Making one person sit around for literally hours waiting for someone to win is silly.  Every time it's been drawn we just declared the game over anyway.

I don't know about you guys but someone needs to replenish the beer and go for a food run.... the guy eliminated by the HBV is the OBVIOUS choice!

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