Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sonofscathach

F&D Universal Specialisations Padawan, Knight & Master

Recommended Posts

I have read a lot of comments about people thinking that "knight level" is too weak or that the Careers don't truly reflect a Jedi from before Order 66.

 

In Edge of the Empire we had 1 Universal Specialisation (FS Exile)

 

In Age of Rebellion we had 2 Universal Specialisations (FS Emergent & Recruit)

 

Therefore I pose a radical idea. Why not have 3 Universal Specialisations in Force and Destiny? Sure these are connected games rather than stand alone games but it seems odd to need EotE or AoR have access to Force Sensitive Universal Specs in FaD. Also there is the odd glitch that if a PC from AoR or EotE wish to be Force Sensitive they need to go down either FS Exile or FS Emergent if their primary class was not a FS one from FaD. If sent to an Academy, you would expect there to be another route to become a Force Adept. Initially I was going to suggest reprinting the two Specs and adding a third but I had a better idea: Padawan, Knight, Master. The terms can be made more neutral such as Initiate, Adept, Mentor or for Darkside, Acolyte/Apprentice, Lord, Darth. Knight and Master level play could be advanced Specialisations that characters can go into from another career if they wish. 

 

Padawan could have a mix of Emergent and Exile talents with Insight to add Discipline and Perception as class Skills and a talent to make Lightsaber a class skill. They could have Force Rating as a 20XP Talent with only a 15 above it for those who really wish to race to Force Rating 2. 

 

Knight could include some talents that give Quick Draw and several talents to boost Initiative as well as Toughened and Grit. A Defensive Training / Defensive Stance would make it tempting for an existing duelist to want to add it to their repertoire. It could include one Parry and Reflect to show a proficiency but not true duelling form as well as Force Rating at 20XP and Superior Reflexes as well as Sixth Sense to Increase Defense Rating. The rest could come from Emergent and Exile with Enduring and Heroic Fortitude. Perhaps you need to be Force Rating 2 and have a Charactersitic at 4 have the Knight Specialisation. 

 

Master could include 2 more Force Rating at 25XP as well as Overwhelm Emotions and Sense Emotions and Force of Will and Invigorate and Balance and a Parry, and  a Reflect too. Master could have a requirement of being Force Rating 3  and having a Characteristic at 5 to join. Perhaps new talents that extend Force Powers could be added in. Something to do once per session amazing feats with Force Powers. A mentoring talent to help guide and teach other Force Users could be useful too. 

 

I know that the moment there is no such thing as advanced specialisations, but being a Knight or Master is vital enough and generic that characters may leave their careers to enter these for a while, especially if it had a advantage of making Force Rating or Dedication slightly cheaper, while making it not a must for all Force Sensitives

 

 

 

 

 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's possible they want to reserve something for the splatbooks, or they think that universal specs aren't needed anymore now that you have 18 force sensitive specs, and the padawan/knight/master can be obtained narratively  by incresing your FR and skills with normal xp progression. Maybe they are being subtle and have statted enough jedi adversaries for people to figure out what benchmarks they need to reach to qualify for the title.

 

Or the designers are being extremely purists and have decied that since there are no PC Knights or Masters in the OT trilogy until the end on RotJ, there is no need for a Padawan/Knight/Master spec, because you can't become one, period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they think that universal specs aren't needed anymore now that you have 18 force sensitive specs, and the padawan/knight/master can be obtained narratively  by incresing your FR and skills with normal xp progression.

 

This.  There's simply no need for a Universal spec for this setting based on what we know or can infer from the Beta book.

 

Additionally, I cannot imagine the Dev's making a Unviersal spec that is so essential and/or so good such that the expectation is that everyone will take it.  They haven't done that with any spec in any book so far -- it's all been about choices and tradeoffs with the implicit goal of having a diverse team of PCs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

they think that universal specs aren't needed anymore now that you have 18 force sensitive specs, and the padawan/knight/master can be obtained narratively  by incresing your FR and skills with normal xp progression.

 

This.  There's simply no need for a Universal spec for this setting based on what we know or can infer from the Beta book.

 

Additionally, I cannot imagine the Dev's making a Unviersal spec that is so essential and/or so good such that the expectation is that everyone will take it.  They haven't done that with any spec in any book so far -- it's all been about choices and tradeoffs with the implicit goal of having a diverse team of PCs.

 

Yes and no. There are plenty of choices with the F&D Careers but they don't really follow the Force User path that would necessarily be available to a PC generated using EotE and AoR. In those books the Universal spec felt like an organic addition to what the setting would fit, no playable "Jedi" Knights or Masters are really available thematically. Characters who had already been trained as a Career Jedi to near Knight level and survived the purge are really better suted as guiding NPCs rather than PCs, IMO.

 

So even though it is great to have all these choices of "Jedi" Careers (although I've argued in another thread that some of them feel a bit contrived and we'd have been better served with fewer Careers and ... but thats not a discussion for this thread) the lack of another Universal spec that covers a broader range of abilities for PCs coming from EotE & AoR seems like an oversight. It's not that you can't just take one from the current F&D but that they don't have the same feel. They're too specific and just don't have the same flavour as Exile and Emergent. They don't feel like they fit the setting as well. 

Edited by FuriousGreg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So even though it is great to have all these choices of "Jedi" Careers (although I've argued in another thread that some of them feel a bit contrived and we'd have been better served with fewer Careers and ... but thats not a discussion for this thread) the lack of another Universal spec that covers a broader range of abilities for PCs coming from EotE & AoR seems like an oversight. It's not that you can't just take one from the current F&D but that they don't have the same feel. They're too specific and just don't have the same flavour as Exile and Emergent.

 

You say bug; I say feature.

 

Force Users in previous games are general for a reason -- there's only one spec each, period.  All FU goodness has to be captured in that one spec.  That's why their talents are so generic and multi-purpose.  FU's are just one kind of character, and a rarity at that, in a campaign focused on muggles.

 

If F&D, they're zooming-in on the Force Users, so differentiation is a must, and a welcomed one at that.  But remember that you can always take either or both of the FSE's if you want more generic Jedi goodness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose it comes down to different preferences, personally I would turn all of the specs into universal specs with Force Rating 1 added onto all of them in the same way as the Emergent and the Exile, completely disregarding the careers for rebellion era games.

The way I have previously been running Jedi (I have pretty much exclusively been running Old Republic) has been that the base career and spec provide a great deal of the flavour of the Jedi. I might use the careers and specs as written for games in the Old Republic, Rise of the Empire or New Republic era.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose it comes down to different preferences, personally I would turn all of the specs into universal specs with Force Rating 1 added onto all of them in the same way as the Emergent and the Exile, completely disregarding the careers for rebellion era games.

The way I have previously been running Jedi (I have pretty much exclusively been running Old Republic) has been that the base career and spec provide a great deal of the flavour of the Jedi. I might use the careers and specs as written for games in the Old Republic, Rise of the Empire or New Republic era.

I understand the idea but don't agree with it, even for an Old republic game the careers are different enough that they have their reason to exist separately(at least the Consular/Guardian/Sentinel). What i would do, and feels more in tune with what we see in the movies, is to make the lightsaber spec universal, so each player can choose the saber style that he prefers rather than be  forced to choose the one associated with his career to avoid being penalized xp wise. So you can have a Yoda-like Consular: Sage/Ataru Striker more easily or change your saber style like Obi-Wan did during the movies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually could see a Master Universal spec as being justified.  It would be different in that all the talents and skills would be focused towards teaching other characters.  It's justified from the concept that anyone can be put in the position of teaching a younger character and the title "Master" is one referred to socially, without necessarily relating to a number of experience points or a stat minimum.

 

The specialization would focus on two things; guarding others in your care and giving them access to talents they are progressing towards.  A sample ability would be something like "Tutor - Action: allow another character to benefit from a talent that is connected to (but not yet purchased) a purchased talent in one of their talent trees or force skills." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I do think there should be a Universal spec or two in the book for something (I do have an idea), I disagree heavily that it should have anything to do with the Jedi, the Order, or titles. Padawan, Knight, and Master are titles, not jobs or collections of skills. Outside of the ranks and hierarchy of the Jedi Order, there is nothing that defines what a Jedi Knight is, since every Jedi's training greatly differed. Plus, making these titles a game effect would be a mistake. In d20, these were merely a checkbox players had to tick off as they went up in level in order for things to make sense. You shouldn't have to take a new specialization for something that serves only a narrative effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of a non-Force Universal spec in the book to represent picking up more mundane, but still important, talents and such that a life of mystical contemplation might have overlooked.

 

Don't call it "Knight" or any such thing, but it could layer nicely with the image of the wandering Jedi meeting people and getting into adventures.

 

The "Errant" (in the archaic, literary sense)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of a non-Force Universal spec in the book to represent picking up more mundane, but still important, talents and such that a life of mystical contemplation might have overlooked.

To me the Sentinel career is very much about that, using mundane skills and talents that othe,r more mystical, paths usually overlook

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I like the idea of a non-Force Universal spec in the book to represent picking up more mundane, but still important, talents and such that a life of mystical contemplation might have overlooked.

To me the Sentinel career is very much about that, using mundane skills and talents that othe,r more mystical, paths usually overlook

 

It sounds like it, certainly.

I'm just musing on a way that could be augmented more so or made available to the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of a non-Force Universal spec in the book to represent picking up more mundane, but still important, talents and such that a life of mystical contemplation might have overlooked.

 

Well, that's an interesting idea, but in actually, probably just a trap for Force Users who'd really be better off investing in a spec with both FR +1 and Dedication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay there are a few points I think that everyone has missed.  The first of all was the fact that FFG has repeatedly stated that the game is designed from the singular perspective of the original three movies and the EU surrounding them (i.e. Force Unleashed and Dark Forces) and nothing else.  That's it if they continue on I am sure we will get other eras represented within the game system.  The second point was the fact that they often tried to avoid the term Jedi within this book.  The reason behind this is that Jedi is not a career in the sense that we think but a society with its own social structure and outlook.  A 'Jedi' as per the prequels was usually raised around other 'Jedi' and the ways of the Force from a very early age.  Most of their lives were immersed in understanding and exploring the ways of the 'Jedi' and the Force.  They were preparing to continue the societal expectations of 'Jedi'.  Now in our time line 'Jedi' are mythological people who may or may not have existed as their society has been wiped from both historical texts and events and the fact that it quite a big galaxy and 'Jedi' may have had a negative or even no impact on a lot of it.  Now the careers and specializations are the result of the fact that no one has all the facts on the 'Jedi' even to the point that no one can prove that the lightsaber and the forms therein even originated with the 'Jedi'.  What we get are just slivers of information about perhaps something that is a true 'Jedi' way of doing things but it isn't the whole picture.  Most characters are going to be like Corran Horn or Luke Skywalker in the fact that they are allowed to develop on their own before they are even given a clear idea of what they are capable of.  They are not immersed in a culture dedicated to all the things involving the Force.  So the specializations reflect that fact by having some that wield lightsabers, others wielding the Force Powers, and still others that do neither but have innately taken the Force into their day to day affairs to the point where they might not even realize they are doing so.  I actually like all the careers and specializations because they reflect other aspects of the Force beyond that of the 'Jedi' way.  The specializations could be viewed as a way to emulate some aspects of the Jedi but do not fully embrace the Jedi because they can't.  Who is teaching them? An old master whose mind may have been warped by the events of the past such as being involved in a war or the fact all of his colleagues, mentors, and students have died?  A holocron that may be out of date due to the fact that in the last five years of the 'Jedi' they were busy fighting in a war to keep the records up to date or it could be from an entirely different era where the Jedi hadn't started carrying lightsabers or is purely a philosophical holocron that couldn't even teach a student any of the powers but could help them contemplate the deeper aspects of the Force without ever manipulating it.  Maybe it was a surviving Padawan or Knight who barely completed or started their training before watching their mentor being gunned down right in front of them.  Yes, the master,knight and padawan could all be characterized as Jedi but their perceptions have been colored by their past and even in some cases their understanding of the Jedi way.  The Knight and padawan would of been raised in a more militant Jedi society then perhaps the Master.  Or the master could be like Yoda living through many incarnations of the Jedi society and decides to emulate the one he likes best and not the last version or he blends them all together and reforms the culture into something he sees that could work within the Imperial Doctrine if it ever came to light.  This is also not taking a look at the fact that all the above could of fallen or been corrupted by the dark side so your training may embrace that side of things more than that of the light.

 

As for a universal specialization I will right one up if that is really what is wanted and post it up on the Forum later on.  Though I will be honest I doubt I am the first one to do so and I predict that there is one that will be released when the core book comes out just like Recruit was in AoR.

Edited by bull30548

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just play the game in a way that supports your view. Personally, if you think Jedi should have a higher FR, give all the characters more XP to start with the levels you think are appropriate. Or whatever else you think they need. The nice thing about the game is that it allows for that and everyone remains equitable. I don't think we need more Force specs in a book full of them. Anyone coming to F&D from EotE or AoR with FSEx or FSEm is already going to have the requisite Force rating to take advantage of any of F&D's specs. I know I would have zero use for unispecs for "Padawan", "Knight", or "Master" what with the 18 I already have, but maybe others may benefit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main purpose of the Recruit is stated in-game as follows (from last year's Beta Updates):

 

 

 

The Alliance strongly recommends such training for any Rebels who are actively going into the field, regardless of their career, goals, or role in a team. Even Diplomats are actively encouraged to undergo military training; they do no good to anyone if they cannot come back alive from their latest efforts to negotiate a treaty or acquire supplies. Becoming a Recruit might not make a character a full-fledged special forces hero, but it certainly doesn’t hurt.

 

I would expect a universal specialization in FaD to "shore up" some deficiencies in FaD characters, since we really don't need another "Force Sensitive Specialization." But what would that deficiency be?

 

Maybe a specialization to allow for a more natural transition of AoR & EotE characters into a FaD game?

Edited by awayputurwpn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a specialization to allow for a more natural transition of AoR & EotE characters into a FaD game?

 

I would argue that FSE's already do just that, and from two slightly different angles as approrpriate for characters from their respective tomes.

 

The last thing I'd want to see is a 3rd Uber FSE that gives what the existing ones do + Lightsaber skill + Parry + Reflect + etc...

Edited by Lorne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maybe a specialization to allow for a more natural transition of AoR & EotE characters into a FaD game?

 

I would argue that FSE's already do just that, and from two slightly different angles as approrpriate for characters from their respective tomes.

 

The last thing I'd want to see is a 3rd Uber FSE that gives what the existing ones do + Lightsaber skill + Parry + Reflect + etc...

 

 

True. I'm just thinking, maybe there's a third angle that hasn't been explored by the Exile or Emergent. I wouldn't really know what that is :) just kinda musing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

True. I'm just thinking, maybe there's a third angle that hasn't been explored by the Exile or Emergent. I wouldn't really know what that is :) just kinda musing.

Don't think there is one; as the Force has been pretty well  covered in all facets in F&D, especially if you factor in the old Universal specs that are still valid and viable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if Exile could be said to be a (starter) version of Kenobi in hiding during "A New Hope" and Emergent can be seen as Luke truly delving into training during "The Empire Strikes Back"... perhaps we could take inspiration from Leia in "Return of the Jedi" and call it "Surprise, You're a Force User"? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if Exile could be said to be a (starter) version of Kenobi in hiding during "A New Hope" and Emergent can be seen as Luke truly delving into training during "The Empire Strikes Back"... perhaps we could take inspiration from Leia in "Return of the Jedi" and call it "Surprise, You're a Force User"? ;)

Force Sensitive: Surprised ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...