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Mikael Hasselstein

How can we be more gender inclusive in X-Wing?

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I would be amazed if the general topic would NOT get any support ... I was just irritated how you can sustain three threads on that. Everyone go out, tell your wifes/girlfriends/other girls about the game, get them to play a couple of rounds, dont be a douchebag, tell other douchebags to shut up and everything's okay. Dont push girls to play the game because you like it and they don't. What else can you do? Its the same with every of these gamergate-style discussions ...

 

There's no need to overanalyse this topic.

 

If you really need the X-Wing messageboard to tell you this or to get to this realization, thats pretty sad.

Edited by mats99

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Sorry, I don't feel bad in the slightest. I'm getting a lot of support.

 

:) actually, I think most of the comments disagree with the overall premise that x-wing is exclusive, however, I do think we are having a generally cordial and well intentioned discussion that is intellectually stimulating. 

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Sorry, I don't feel bad in the slightest. I'm getting a lot of support.

 

:) actually, I think most of the comments disagree with the overall premise that x-wing is exclusive, however, I do think we are having a generally cordial and well intentioned discussion that is intellectually stimulating. 

 

Well, the disagreements are not zero-sum. There are also private messages behind the scenes, and 'likes'. So, I don't find that my position is isolated at all.

 

Further, it's not my position that X-Wing is inherently exclusive. I began the post praising FFG for the gender inclusiveness in their game. It's my position that the community could be more inclusive and that we should do something to make it so.

 

Also, I do think that they might think about inclusiveness with their marketing, but I have no overall view of what they do on that front.

Edited by Mikael Hasselstein

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Well, this is just the thread that refuses to die, isn't it?

 

Yup, it certainly is. ;)

 

To disagree with the OP, I have a boy and a girl, boy age 7, girl age 4. They are different, very different. this should be obvious but we now live in a society where everything must be the same, but things are not the same, things can be different and still have equal value.

 

Look, don't paint me into a corner that I'm not inhabiting. I'm not calling for a must-be uniformity. I'm calling for the game to be more inclusive than it currently is. Nekomatafuyu's post above makes the point of an imbalance of the statistics doesn't mean that there should be a dichotomous outcome. Just because more boys will naturally (or nurturally) be drawn to a wargame doesn't mean that no girls or women will be.

 

In my case, I was just as much boy as anyone, and my little sister was a girly-girl growing up. However, now she's wearing BDUs and showing army soldiers how to shoot. She talks about cars and trucks with more felicity than I can manage, whereas I'm being the feminist here.

Bruh, we haven't worn BDUs since '05. I remember when I still had to polish my boots...

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It's beyond idiotic to drop this crap on FFG for not making a miniatures game more friendly to women. As if having feminine names on cards who's card art depicts a spaceship will suddenly have a demographic that historically makes up a small percentage of tabletop gaming and gaming in general, buying X-wing or Armada.

You can thank Lucas for the lack of females in Star Wars. I can't think of any female pilots in the Star Wars movies, 4-6, that this game is based around. What ones FFG have put in are from books, games and other EU sources so they actually sought out female characters to include in the game and you people are spitting on them for not having more. I think some of you should stop playing when you start bashing a company that already does something you are demanding it do.

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In response to the OP;

My group is 100% male. My wife refuses to play miniatures games and that is that. The other guys who play all have girlfriends that are just not interested in the game.

That being said, my wife and the other girls usually get together and play board games and make fun of their men who play with toy models. ;)

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I've yet to come across a single valid example of how this game is gender biased. Furthermore, how would you even measure something like that? By ratio of male to female pilot cards? By ratio of men who play the game to women who play the game? By whether or not someone asks the question? Sexism is a broad issue so of course it will draw attention when brought up in any public forum but as far as relating it with X-Wing there isn't a leg to stand on.

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Search YouTube for "Francis plays Magic the Gathering" This is a good example for the stereotypical gamer nerd.  Yes it is a stereotype but unfortunately a small piece of reality that almost every gamer has dealt with at least once. Even though  "Francis " may be hamming it up for the camera profanity poor sportsmanship and nerd rage all in 1 nice little package. What does that have to do with X-wing and FFG ? . . . . . .Nothing . . . . . Have a nice day and remember to floss after eating ! . . . . Oops forgot to mention X-Wing is an excellent game .My daughter is wanting to play(She is 25) and my wife hates Star Wars but thinks the ships are cute.

 

Edited for spelling sorry.

Edited by Katman

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The stories I could tell you of the military - with and without females.

 

Military stories are the best!

 

It's beyond idiotic to drop this crap on FFG for not making a miniatures game more friendly to women. As if having feminine names on cards who's card art depicts a spaceship will suddenly have a demographic that historically makes up a small percentage of tabletop gaming and gaming in general, buying X-wing or Armada.

 

And nobody is doing that, so perhaps pay closer attention to what the debate is about, yeah?

 

In response to the OP;

My group is 100% male. My wife refuses to play miniatures games and that is that. The other guys who play all have girlfriends that are just not interested in the game.

That being said, my wife and the other girls usually get together and play board games and make fun of their men who play with toy models. ;)

 

Sure, and if you're all happy with that arrangement, then I'm not saying anything other than rock on!

 

 

I've yet to come across a single valid example of how this game is gender biased. Furthermore, how would you even measure something like that? By ratio of male to female pilot cards? By ratio of men who play the game to women who play the game? By whether or not someone asks the question? Sexism is a broad issue so of course it will draw attention when brought up in any public forum but as far as relating it with X-Wing there isn't a leg to stand on.

 

Yes, by the ratio of men and women who play the game. My legs are perfectly fine.

 

To the latter three of you, I'm happy you're chiming in, but much of this has already been covered. If you're content with the gender disparity, then have fun in your twentieth century, but you are behind the times.

 

If you think you have a worthwhile contribution to the debate, then I suggest you read what the debate is actually about, rather than the straw man you seem to have created in your minds based on a cursory reading of it.

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Honestly I'm with the Admin on this one...

I'll further point that with x-wing gender isn't an issue. Full stop.

 

There are male and female pilots listed in the cards. Full stop.

 

People need to get over gender, and that's a widespread thing not centralized to this game.

Full. Fracking. Stop.

Thanks. I'm sick of these threads already. A thread about a thread about a thread about a problem that isn't even there. They aren't discriminating against gender. Get over it already.

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The stories I could tell you of the military - with and without females.

 

Military stories are the best!

 

It's beyond idiotic to drop this crap on FFG for not making a miniatures game more friendly to women. As if having feminine names on cards who's card art depicts a spaceship will suddenly have a demographic that historically makes up a small percentage of tabletop gaming and gaming in general, buying X-wing or Armada.

 

And nobody is doing that, so perhaps pay closer attention to what the debate is about, yeah?

 

In response to the OP;

My group is 100% male. My wife refuses to play miniatures games and that is that. The other guys who play all have girlfriends that are just not interested in the game.

That being said, my wife and the other girls usually get together and play board games and make fun of their men who play with toy models. ;)

 

Sure, and if you're all happy with that arrangement, then I'm not saying anything other than rock on!

 

 

I've yet to come across a single valid example of how this game is gender biased. Furthermore, how would you even measure something like that? By ratio of male to female pilot cards? By ratio of men who play the game to women who play the game? By whether or not someone asks the question? Sexism is a broad issue so of course it will draw attention when brought up in any public forum but as far as relating it with X-Wing there isn't a leg to stand on.

 

Yes, by the ratio of men and women who play the game. My legs are perfectly fine.

 

To the latter three of you, I'm happy you're chiming in, but much of this has already been covered. If you're content with the gender disparity, then have fun in your twentieth century, but you are behind the times.

 

If you think you have a worthwhile contribution to the debate, then I suggest you read what the debate is actually about, rather than the straw man you seem to have created in your minds based on a cursory reading of it.

Well to be honest mike I'm a little surprised your stating that I see a straw man in my mind. I didn't even read the whole thread. I'm just merely tossing my groups experience in. I would love it if my wife would play but it just is not something that interests her.

As far as gender disparity.... I dunno. I was never under the impression that there is any inequality in xwing. Looking at the women I know these kinds of games just are not something that interests them.

And how pray tell am I not following the discussion? Your original post talks about ways to be more proactive towards garnering female players and my post refers to the women in our gaming community.

And yes still this is a serious post.

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One of those is stereotype threat. Maybe we can alleviate that by creating the self-fulfilling prophesy that X-Wing is different from most tabletop miniatures games that it is just as accessible to women as it is to men and that X-Wing players are much more inviting of women players than the neckbeards of Warhammer are. :D

 

 

So instead of sitting around telling each other that there's no problem and that X-Wing is perfectly welcoming of female gamers, we should be telling the females that there's no problem and that X-Wing is perfectly welcoming of female gamers :D

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The stories I could tell you of the military - with and without females.

One time on an overnight ambush with 2 females attached to our group...

... they got married anyway.

 

 

It's more like "one time on an overnight ambush, I cuddled as close as I could to another guy so that we could share body warmth and not freeze to death."

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Well to be honest mike I'm a little surprised your stating that I see a straw man in my mind. I didn't even read the whole thread. I'm just merely tossing my groups experience in. I would love it if my wife would play but it just is not something that interests her.

As far as gender disparity.... I dunno. I was never under the impression that there is any inequality in xwing. Looking at the women I know these kinds of games just are not something that interests them.

And how pray tell am I not following the discussion? Your original post talks about ways to be more proactive towards garnering female players and my post refers to the women in our gaming community.

And yes still this is a serious post.

 

I'm sorry, I guess I'm just getting tired and cranky. I probably just need to have some more coffee.  ;)

 

Or, better yet, a beer.

 

I was reacting to a long list of posts within the thread that accuse me of wanting to change the game, or of blaming FFG, or of calling FFG sexist, etc., which is not at all what I'm talking about. Also, the absurdity of people bumping this thread up to tell me that they want this thread to go away.

 

Part of it, I think, is that I touching a raw nerve. Well, good. I don't feel the least bit sorry about that, and if it's raw, then maybe it's crying out for attention. The fact remains that the gender ratio in the is about ten-to-none, and that should cause some concern in the community. The fact that so many guys are ready to shout me down, also says something about those guys, I think.

 

One of those is stereotype threat. Maybe we can alleviate that by creating the self-fulfilling prophesy that X-Wing is different from most tabletop miniatures games that it is just as accessible to women as it is to men and that X-Wing players are much more inviting of women players than the neckbeards of Warhammer are. :D

 

So instead of sitting around telling each other that there's no problem and that X-Wing is perfectly welcoming of female gamers, we should be telling the females that there's no problem and that X-Wing is perfectly welcoming of female gamers :D

 

That would indeed be preferable, I think.

Edited by Mikael Hasselstein

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Amen to the beer. I think I will grab one myself. After reading a couple pages I can see why you responded like that.

I for one just want moar people to play X wing. I make a point of not caring about people's color or sex or what have you. If they want to play I'll play, I've got PLENTY of stuff for both sides of the gaming space.

And as an aside, my group is all college kids. I'm an old guy at 23. It blows my mind sometimes when they say they forget I'm OLD. Lol

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Come home from a long day at work to find a brand new topic with a whopping six pages already. Okay. I've read through everything and there's a lot to cover, but I'm going to just chime in with some general thoughts before going to bed and picking up again tomorrow.

I'm going to keep this relevant to the question Mikael asked in the first post, in the context of what FFG could do:

1. How many women have been, or are, involved in the development and marketing of X-Wing Miniatures at FFG?

2. How many of the popular guest articles (eg. Paul Heaver's "Turn Zero" series) featured on the FFG website have been written by women?

3. Has FFG taken or is FFG taking a firm stance on moderating their forums for sexism, bullying or intimidation?

4. Could any of the above change for the better? If so, should they?

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2. How many of the popular guest articles (eg. Paul Heaver's "Turn Zero" series) featured on the FFG website have been written by women?

 

How many major events have been won by females?

 

3. Has FFG taken or is FFG taking a firm stance on moderating their forums for sexism, bullying or intimidation?

 

Yes.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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1. How many women have been, or are, involved in the development and marketing of X-Wing Miniatures at FFG?

According to the credits in the back of the rule book, it looked like 3 in management and about 8-9 playtesters(at least 1 of which was 1 of the 3 management women).

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