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Mikael Hasselstein

How can we be more gender inclusive in X-Wing?

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I think the OP's point isn't 'Make more named pilots women' or whatever, but more along the lines of 'maybe just be more considerate of the women who do show up at tourneys, and don't treat them like children/strange mythical animals'.

 

Is this what's happening though? I've not done the tourney scene yet, except to run them at the store, so I don't know.

But again, FFG is under zero obligation to cater to any demographic other than fans of minis and Star Wars.

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I think the OP's point isn't 'Make more named pilots women' or whatever, but more along the lines of 'maybe just be more considerate of the women who do show up at tourneys, and don't treat them like children/strange mythical animals'.

 

Is this what's happening though? I've not done the tourney scene yet, except to run them at the store, so I don't know.

But again, FFG is under zero obligation to cater to any demographic other than fans of minis and Star Wars.

 

 

I think that pretty much sums up the conversation as a whole. Some people feel that we need to be more inclusive, and others (including myself) say that we're not being exclusive, without much evidence on either account. And I don't mean argumentative evidence, I mean statistical evidence. As has been pointed out several times now, supposing this is even a problem in the first place, it's not one we can solve without a considerable amount of information. That was more or less the gist of my "go poll the supermarket" comment, which was just written off as snide rhetoric. As much as I respect a lot of the people who have posted here, to include the OP, I simply don't see this thread as being overly productive.

 

If we're truly committed to being open-minded when it comes to gender, then a good first step would be to have people not lose their minds when discussing the Phantom pilots.   

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

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I think the OP's point isn't 'Make more named pilots women' or whatever, but more along the lines of 'maybe just be more considerate of the women who do show up at tourneys, and don't treat them like children/strange mythical animals'.

Is this what's happening though? I've not done the tourney scene yet, except to run them at the store, so I don't know.

But again, FFG is under zero obligation to cater to any demographic other than fans of minis and Star Wars.

 

I think that pretty much sums up the conversation as a whole. Some people feel that we need to be more inclusive, and others (including myself) say that we're not being exclusive, without much evidence on either account. And I don't mean argumentative evidence, I mean statistical evidence. As has been pointed out several times now, supposing this is even a problem in the first place, it's not one we can solve without a considerable amount of information. That was more or less the gist of my "go poll the supermarket" comment, which was just written off as snide rhetoric. As much as I respect a lot of the people who have posted here, to include the OP, I simply don't see this thread as being overly productive.

 

If we're truly committed to being open-minded when it comes to gender, then a good first step would be to have people not lose their minds when discussing the Phantom pilots.

When it comes to the Phantoms, no one is correct, as far as I know, but not agreeing with someone's head canon shouldn't be treated as a sin.

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cPv7gNA.jpg

Derailing implies that there was a rail at one point. This is more like a donkey ride on a lsd trip and a random hippo just runs by
I initially had a similar reaction to the thread, but now that I took the time to understand the arguments, I'd disagree with you, this post excluded.

There's nothing wrong with what the OP is saying, and other members have contributed meaningful discussion.

Comparing it to a train wreck is...well, I don't know what to call it. Of little to no value? I guess?

Just a random bit of info...last night was my xwing night at the LGS. About a third of the people in the store (maybe 6 out of 15?) were women. Some were playing an rpg and others a self-contained card game. Never seen a woman participate in my group, though there was a woman who had a large collection that she eventually sold.

Never see any female warhammer players or any for the WW2 tank game (don't know the name but it's hot on Saturdays).

D&D attack wing just dropped in my store, so I'm interested to see if any women get in on that.

Edited by cody campbell

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I'll throw some jp-8 on the flames. I like miniatures games because there are nearly ZERO women that play them. I enjoy getting away from the wife, daughters, mother in law, mother, etc. Some guys hunt, others fish, some golf. It dosnt break my heart one iota having a lack of estrogen at the game table. Just as long as my opponents bathe, have clean clothes, and arent nobs it will all be good.

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It has been stated in this thread that there generally is very few women playing miniature games, so the situation is not unique to X-wing.

 

This game has, however, a better possibility to change this as there is a lower investment of time and cash to begin with, and an easier rulebook than warhammer etc.
 

No one can perform miracles, but some small steps might help

-Keep some spare miniatures at your game club for newcomers to use

-When you make demo games, make sure that the information about this is posted in locations where women will find it.

-If you ask people if they want to try the game, don't just ask the men.

This goes for whatever new group of people you want to recruit to the game.

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I initially had a similar reaction to the thread, but now that I took the time to understand the arguments, I'd disagree with you, this post excluded.

There's nothing wrong with what the OP is saying, and other members have contributed meaningful discussion.

Comparing it to a train wreck is...well, I don't know what to call it. Of little to no value? I guess?

Just a random bit of info...last night was my xwing night at the LGS. About a third of the people in the store (maybe 6 out of 15?) were women. Some were playing an rpg and others a self-contained card game. Never seen a woman participate in my group, though there was a woman who had a large collection that she eventually sold.

Never see any female warhammer players or any for the WW2 tank game (don't know the name but it's hot on Saturdays).

D&D attack wing just dropped in my store, so I'm interested to see if any women get in on that.

 

 

Now that is an interesting tidbit there. 

 

There is a gender neutral element that could be at play as well. I know that I have my own limit for "enough games atm". I'l reach a point where I don't want to try out anything new because I either don't have the time or I'm juggling enough different games at that moment. So something has to have just the right combination of elements to draw me in. That's where I was before I got into X-Wing. Only the combo of good looking prepainted ships, star wars, easy setup, and simple streamlined rules pulled me in. I've no interest in the Star Trek version because while I'm a trekkie, I've never liked how the ships looked (other then Kingon birds of prey). So no interest. 

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I'll throw some jp-8 on the flames. I like miniatures games because there are nearly ZERO women that play them. I enjoy getting away from the wife, daughters, mother in law, mother, etc. Some guys hunt, others fish, some golf. It dosnt break my heart one iota having a lack of estrogen at the game table. Just as long as my opponents bathe, have clean clothes, and arent nobs it will all be good.

 

An interested point. Reminds me of the whole "gentelmens club" idea from the Edwardian and Victorian periods. They were high end social clubs where men could hang out with other men, drink, play pool or cards, eat and read. Women were generally not allowed. 

 

The idea's a bit anachronistic these days, but I can see your point. There's the natural desire to get out of the house for a few and if a lot of stress is associated female relatives there'd be a desire to avoid female company out of a fear that they'd bring more stress with them. 

 

I'm not saying that I share the exact sentiment (balanced male female #s in my family, so it's more the dynamics that can stress me out) but when I get stressed out, if I'm trying to have fun and relax I want to get away for a bit from those elements of my family that stress me out. In my case that being people talking loudly, over each other, and plans devolving due to chaos. On days like that I like me some nice, calm, rules heavy, board or tabletop games. 

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Honestly I'm with the Admin on this one...

I'll further point that with x-wing gender isn't an issue. Full stop.

 

There are male and female pilots listed in the cards. Full stop.

 

People need to get over gender, and that's a widespread thing not centralized to this game.

Full. Fracking. Stop.

I agree

I agree

I disagree and everything from Bokor Haram to Gamergate shows we need to continue to fight for equal rights for women.

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I'll throw some jp-8 on the flames. I like miniatures games because there are nearly ZERO women that play them. I enjoy getting away from the wife, daughters, mother in law, mother, etc. Some guys hunt, others fish, some golf. It dosnt break my heart one iota having a lack of estrogen at the game table. Just as long as my opponents bathe, have clean clothes, and arent nobs it will all be good.

you live in a house full of women? Would you take your child (if old enough) to gaming if they were male?

I don't remotely agree with your "ZERO women" comment...it seems so....exclusive...especially in 2014.

Getting away from work / family for a little bit is ok...but you seem to be getting away from women...which is kinda sad.

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I just hope everyone reading this thread looking for actual discussion hits the report button on everyone of the other threads trying to cover this one up. Sure, it'll get em more views but it's the only way the mods will whip out the Ban stick.

 

No thanks.  Read what you want, ignore the rest, but no reason for you or anyone else to decide who gets to post what they want.  If FFG thinks its a problem, they will deal with it as they already have on other related topics.

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Well, this is just the thread that refuses to die, isn't it? to disagree with the OP, I have a boy and a girl, boy age 7, girl age 4. They are different, very different. this should be obvious but we now live in a society where everything must be the same, but things are not the same, things can be different and still have equal value. My son loves to play at war, he loves things that are aggressive and dangerous, his friends are the same way. this is not something we have promoted, it is the nature of boys in general. my daughter likes pink, and dolls, and other things. yes, there is some overlap in things that they like as well, but she has no interest in playing war, unless it's in a tiara and a an evening gown, and that is ok. Women, for the most part, do not seem to have a lot of interest in this game, and that is ok. I am glad there are some that do, but they are the exception rather than the rule. It's a good thing that the sexes are different, and that by extension they like different things. Can we stop trying to solve something that really is not a problem in the first place? my unsolicited 2 cents.

just want to touch on this. your children like those things because businesses push those roles on children. Go to any child section be it toys or cloths or furniture and you will see how they push colors and characters  on Genders. I have 2 young girls and I will tell you right now...if they want to be a "Pink Princess" then they will have a sword and shield to help them defend their kingdom too...no helpless maidens, no being saved by the prince...any troubles they have they will resolve through their own smarts and strength.   (information: Pink is a "girl's color" because a company CHOSE to market that...there is no other reason. http://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys)  

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just want to touch on this. your children like those things because businesses push those roles on children. Go to any child section be it toys or cloths or furniture and you will see how they push colors and characters  on Genders. I have 2 young girls and I will tell you right now...if they want to be a "Pink Princess" then they will have a sword and shield to help them defend their kingdom too...no helpless maidens, no being saved by the prince...any troubles they have they will resolve through their own smarts and strength.   (information: Pink is a "girl's color" because a company CHOSE to market that...there is no other reason. http://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys)  

 

 

My daughter wears pink and plays X-wing and Madden

Edited by dojimaster

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just want to touch on this. your children like those things because businesses push those roles on children. Go to any child section be it toys or cloths or furniture and you will see how they push colors and characters  on Genders. I have 2 young girls and I will tell you right now...if they want to be a "Pink Princess" then they will have a sword and shield to help them defend their kingdom too...no helpless maidens, no being saved by the prince...any troubles they have they will resolve through their own smarts and strength.   (information: Pink is a "girl's color" because a company CHOSE to market that...there is no other reason. http://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys)  

 

 

My daughter wears pink and plays X-wing and Madden

 

nowhere do I say a girl can't wear pink...in fact I talk about my daughter's being "Pink Princesses"... the person i was talking about mentioned the "nature" of the genders...there is no "natural" reason for girls to like pink, or dislike "War", or  dislike X-wing :)

Edited by Hidatom

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I just hope everyone reading this thread looking for actual discussion hits the report button on everyone of the other threads trying to cover this one up. Sure, it'll get em more views but it's the only way the mods will whip out the Ban stick.

 

I reported you, does that count?

 

17 posts...most of them in  this post...hmmm.

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Getting away from work / family for a little bit is ok...but you seem to be getting away from women...which is kinda sad.

 

 

Out of curiosity, would you tell a women she has to / should include a man in everything she chooses to do for leisure?

 

where do you get this? The person I was responding to seemed to want "ZERO women" in his gaming...I never once stated we need to force gender inclusion...I just don't think we should force Gender exclusion.

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