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FFG_Sam Stewart

Beta Update 8

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2) more importantly, with the current errata'd wording there are only 19 exceptions to the "can be activated multiple times" rules (18 in the errata document, 1 in the orignal beta under the Enhance Range upgrade). But in the orignal beta there are no less than 33 exceptions to the "can only be activated once" rule. So...I'd rather have a ruleset with 19 exceptions than one with 33 exceptions.

And how many of those exceptions already have the sentence "May be activated multiple times" already listed in their description?  All the update does is add a "cannot be activated more than once" to a lot of effects where it was already fairly clear it could only be triggered once per power check.  In terms of how the system plays, the only effect that changed was the Strength Upgrade for Move, which has the "may be activated multiple times sentence" applied to it.

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2) more importantly, with the current errata'd wording there are only 19 exceptions to the "can be activated multiple times" rules (18 in the errata document, 1 in the orignal beta under the Enhance Range upgrade). But in the orignal beta there are no less than 33 exceptions to the "can only be activated once" rule. So...I'd rather have a ruleset with 19 exceptions than one with 33 exceptions.

And how many of those exceptions already have the sentence "May be activated multiple times" already listed in their description?

Which, the new exceptions or the old exceptions? I already counted and shared about the old, and the new ones are no longer exceptions but just a bit of redundant text that now conform to the general rule. Perhaps they will be cleaned up when the Core Rulebook is printed?

  All the update does is add a "cannot be activated more than once" to a lot of effects where it was already fairly clear it could only be triggered once per power check.

Right, but those wording changes were made necessary due to the general rule (powers can't be activated multiple times) being flipped on its head.

In terms of how the system plays, the only effect that changed was the Strength Upgrade for Move, which has the "may be activated multiple times sentence" applied to it.

I would put that original effect down to an editing mistake, since the way the Move power functions in FaD now is exactly the way it has functioned from the beginning in EotE and AoR.

The only difference between how Move power worked in the three CRBs was FaD's general rule (that upgrades & powers couldn't be activated multiple times unless stated otherwise) in contrast to EotE and AoR's general rule (that powers & upgrade can be activated multiple times unless stated otherwise). The power itself has the exact same wording in the rules across the three CRBs.

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Away,

Let me rephrase that question.

 

How many basic powers and upgrades were actually changed in how they function with the update?  Specifically, how many of them now actually operate differently after the update in comparison to how they operated before the sidebar text was changed?

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Away,

Let me rephrase that question.

 

How many basic powers and upgrades were actually changed in how they function with the update?  Specifically, how many of them now actually operate differently after the update in comparison to how they operated before the sidebar text was changed?

 

Ah! Good question.

 
  • The Battle Meditation basic form can now be activated multiple times (and, per update 7, adds Success instead of Advantage).
  • The Enhance power basic form in AoR could be activated multiple times, and now in FaD (post-update) it can be activated multiple times as well.
  • The Move power Strength upgrade has already been mentioned :)
 
And that's it. 

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Well just thinking about it, the strength upgrades on Move explain why the Death Star could move from Alderaan to Yavin without any visible engines. It was moved by Vader, spending a huge amount of pips on the strength upgrades,

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Ah! Good question.
 
  • The Battle Meditation basic form can now be activated multiple times (and, per update 7, adds Success instead of Advantage).
  • The Enhance power basic form in AoR could be activated multiple times, and now in FaD (post-update) it can be activated multiple times as well.
  • The Move power Strength upgrade has already been mentioned :)
 
And that's it. 

 

So three effects out of dozens (many of which were in prior core rulebooks) were actually changed.

 

Again, I think it would have been simpler to just tweak those three effects to effectively say "these are exceptions to the rule and they can each be activated multiple times" as opposed to changing the sidebar and then adding a bunch of "these can only be activated once" lines.

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Ah! Good question.
 
  • The Battle Meditation basic form can now be activated multiple times (and, per update 7, adds Success instead of Advantage).
  • The Enhance power basic form in AoR could be activated multiple times, and now in FaD (post-update) it can be activated multiple times as well.
  • The Move power Strength upgrade has already been mentioned :)
 
And that's it. 

 

So three effects out of dozens (many of which were in prior core rulebooks) were actually changed.

 

Again, I think it would have been simpler to just tweak those three effects to effectively say "these are exceptions to the rule and they can each be activated multiple times" as opposed to changing the sidebar and then adding a bunch of "these can only be activated once" lines.

 

 

Dono, sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but I am not sure that my answers are being understood. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the questions. Please allow me to attempt to clarify. If this is unnecessary, then I apologize once more.

 

My last post was listing what actually changed in effect from the Beta to Update #7. The rest of the changes are not mechanically effectual, but rather a cleanup in terms of wording and compatibility with AoR and EotE.

 

There are now 19 total exceptions to the general rule, not 3. The general rule is the same as in EotE and AoR: Force power basic forms and upgrades can be activated multiple times unless otherwise stated. The exception, which we have 19 of now, is, "This cannot be activated multiple times." 

 

What can now be confusing (and a waste of space) are the many lines of text in the book (30+) that read "This may be activated multiple times." They even did this for some individual power effects in the Beta Updates, and I'm not sure why. (Edit: also along these lines are the several instances of "Commit a Force die" that also have "this cannot be activated multiple times," when the general rule in the sidebar also already states this...it's also rather common sense in the first place, I suppose)

 

So to recap...

 

  • Update #7 changed Battle Meditation basic power to be activated multiple times.
  • Update #7 "changed" the way that Move Strength upgrade and Enhance basic form work to be in line with previous iterations of these powers in Edge & Age.
  • The additional text for the Move Strength upgrade in Update #7 is superfluous, since it parrots what the general rule already says. This is also true of the other 33 instances of this statement in the Beta book.
  • Originally, there were a total of 33 exceptions to the old general rule, "Powers & upgrades cannot be activated multiple times unless stated otherwise."
  • Now, there are only 19 exceptions to the new general rule, "Powers & upgrades can be activated multiple times unless stated otherwise." 
Edited by awayputurwpn

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My reference to what changed was specifically to the "can activate multiple times" and only the "can activate multiple times."  I had thought I had made that point crystal clear from the start.

 

In that respect, only three effects were actually affected by change to the sidebar on page 197 about spending multiple Force points on activating Force powers and upgrades, specifically the bolded sentence that in the book states that if a power doesn't say it can be activated multiple times, then it can't.

 

In the wake of Beta Update #8, only three powers were changed by having the sidebar on page 197 altered so that the default is now "powers can be activated multiple times unless it says otherwise."

 

The nineteen exceptions you noted have not changed in the wake of this specific change (activating more than once), while only three effects have been changed, one of which (the Strength Upgrade for Move) had the specific exception text of "can be activated multiple times" added to it in spite of the change to the page 197 sidebar making it completely unnecessary.

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The nineteen exceptions you noted have not changed in the wake of this specific change (activating more than once), while only three effects have been changed, one of which (the Strength Upgrade for Move) had the specific exception text of "can be activated multiple times" added to it in spite of the change to the page 197 sidebar making it completely unnecessary.

 

 

Yes. I agree. They did the same thing (putting superfluous/redundant text) in the Beta Update versions of Battle Meditation, Foresee Control upgrade, and the Protect/Unleash Strength upgrade, which worries me that this redundant text will make it into the first printing of the CRB.

 

I still think what they've done now is simpler in the long run (the redundant text notwithstanding), even though it made a mess of the Beta book. As long as they fully update each power in the final print version of the CRB and remove the redundant text :)

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I like that the specifically called out what can be activated multiple times versus  what can't. It's there and definitive.

....

o_o

I was not considering this third option.

Still though...I like the games being seamless, and not having to reconcile different rules from different systems.

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