Suggestion for boost action on large ships

[ForceSensitive 2,628]

Like I said, four PTL royal guards had a chance. 3x Bounty hunters was super rough and did get a real solid win. And even the decimator could threaten me back. You'll have options, the meta just dictates then some what. Just like the phantom did

 

good gad that needed edited. sorry, communicator post originally

Edited November 8, 2014 by ForceSensitive

[clontroper5 4,233]

Like I said, four PTL royal guards had a chance. 3x Bounty hunters was super rough and did get a real solid win. And even the decimator could threaten me back. You'll have options, the meta just dictates then some what. Just like the phantom did

 

good gad that needed edited. sorry, communicator post originally

 just pointing out that the Decimeter could more then threaten you back, As mentioned earlier stress can ruin your day as an outrider pilot and any sensible Vt-49 pilot would put Mara Jade on it and not to mention ramathon Oicunn being able to out damage virtually any ship in the game, o and the whole lack of ark dodging is nice too

 

on the flip side the VT-49 costs about 50% more than the outrider 

Edited November 13, 2014 by clontroper5

[ForceSensitive 2,628]

Now that worlds is over the one guy in our group who got the decimator is flying it now and we had a game out of it the other day. The match up has a lot of weird quirks to it. For our purposes it was Rear Admiral Chiraneau(Mara jade, gunner, expose, Isard, +other?) vs Dash Rendar(Outrider/HLC, Recon Spec, Lone Wolf, Engine Upgrade)

 

1.)We're both usually firing  4 dice, often modified but his is under Primary rules and mine are under secondary rules. So dash often goes to agility 3 focused while the Decimator is stuck at zero with an evade.

2.)he wanted range 1-2 favoring one, I want range 2-3 favoring three, but I activate first so range three is ever so slightly harder to achieve 100% of the time, but I still get it more often than not while he never has me at range one.

3.)He has stupid high crit potential on me I got next to jack back.

 

In the final stretch of the game I had the Decimator at three health (one shot range) but broke off for three turns to pound his Defender. Big mistake, Chireaneau got back in range 2 lobbed a crit through and knocked out the HLC with munitions failure. Opponent admitted that the game was a lucky win and dependent on my priority mistake and a lucky crit. But fly casual right? Made for a interesting game to be sure, maybe not the most skill based game I've ever played as it really broke down to a damage race and a targeting scheme. But that was the Rear Admiral.

 

With all honesty Mara Jade was never an issue for Dash, Rebel captive would be though, kinda. Oicunn is categorically awful against Dash as he loses at the PS order at all times, and can never get close enough to ram him anyway if the Dash player has any idea what they are doing. I doubt we'll be seeing many Oicunns if any in standard competitive but the Rear admiral I believe to be a very strong new addition. If you have a Dash in your area start to bust your chops, go with the Admiral for a very good hard counter, but be warned it is far and away still a test of skill and by no means as skewed as a fat Han shooting first against a Whisper type counter. Hell even after the skill part it could very easily break down to dice.

 

And now you know! :3

[paulsk 15]

This is a pretty clever solution, and fairly elegant, but here's another potential downside to consider:

 

While these changes would reduce large ship Boosting speed slightly they would significantly increase a large ship's ability to make very precise maneuvers. Currently Boost just lets you make in the current turn a move that you would be able to make next turn with your dial. This revised Boost would allow the ship to make moves beyond the options the dial gives it next turn. 

 

Imagine a large ship moving into a position where a normal Bank 1 would make it move too far and barely clip an asteroid. With this revised rule, the pilot would now have a new option not available from the dial alone to make a special shallow bank to avoid the asteroid without having to fly further past it.

 

Or imagine a large ship that wants to thread its way between two asteroids after a bank next turn, but realizes that Forward 3 is not far enough and Forward 4 is too far to thread correctly. By moving Forward 1 then making a revised Boost, the ship can effectively pull off a Forward 3.5 maneuver, something that the old Boost and dial cannot do.

 

In the hands of a skilled player, the additional movement options that these non-standard moves would allow might be more powerful than the slight loss in overall speed to large Boosting ships. Alternatively, in the hands of a moderately skilled played who is not as good at eyeballing the precise results of several future turns of movement, this revised Boost would allow for new ways to make slight adjustments to correct for bad estimates.

 

Maybe the speed loss would be more significant than the maneuverability gain, but this is something to consider carefully.

Edited November 14, 2014 by paulsk

[xanderf 6,788]

I'd honestly rather just see Engine Upgrade banned from large ships.  Even with these changes, they gain a stupid amount of mobility from boosting.  A shuttle should not be keeping up with an A-wing in a drag race.

 

But this would be better than nothing.

 

After some freshly-frustrating experiences this weekend with a Super Dash build that I could simply never get away from (boost + barrel roll *every freaking movement*), I came here to post a thread like this...and handily found one already here!

 

Rather than create a whole new one - I'll just endorse the OP.  It's not enough, but it's *something*...as it is, boost on a large ship is just insane.  The Imperial Shuttle should NOT be able to keep up with A-Wings/TIE Interceptors/etc...at all...ever.

[ObiWonka 7,081]

I'm glad this thread is back. This change would make so much sense alongside the difference in Barrel Roll for Large ships. And it's just enough that it would scale the power back a little while still leaving Engine Upgrade a viable option. It's like a fabled fourth bear for Goldilocks.

[Zoranno 1]

I think the large ship bases are fine as they are right now with boost, it seems to me you should be having small base ships boost with the equivalent 2 movement templates, it would certainly make things challenging

[WWHSD 9,273]

I think the large ship bases are fine as they are right now with boost, it seems to me you should be having small base ships boost with the equivalent 2 movement templates, it would certainly make things challenging

 

If small bases boosted with a 2 bank template, I think that would make boost a worse action 90% of the time.  Long boosts work well for Decimators, YTs, and Firesprays because those ships can shoot while being chased. 

[eagletsi111 1,115]

I like this alot, but IG-88 would be completely nerfed by this, when this ship was built it was created to use the boost for sure.   Looks at it's special abilities and the way it was designed.

 

 

However, I also think you need to have a nerf on Range 1 out of arc shots too.

 

Like I stated before,  this is good, but IG will suffer.    There are lots of large ships, that this effects.   But this is a major issue for IG-88.     So I wouldn't implement it.

 

However,  I would change it so the only way to gain +1 attack die for range one is in the primary arc for all 360 primary weapons.

Edited June 3, 2015 by eagletsi111

[treybert 893]

I like this alot, but IG-88 would be completely nerfed by this, when this ship was built it was created to use the boost for sure.   Looks at it's special abilities and the way it was designed.

 

 

However, I also think you need to have a nerf on Range 1 out of arc shots too.

 

Like I stated before,  this is good, but IG will suffer.    There are lots of large ships, that this effects.   But this is a major issue for IG-88.     So I wouldn't implement it.

 

However,  I would change it so the only way to gain +1 attack die for range one is in the primary arc for all 360 primary weapons.

 

95% of the fun that comes with playing aggressors is boosting. They fly like the defender should.

[mazz0 2,910]

Well with the Drag race Phantoms are just as fast as the big ships.

 

Even though we know they are not.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24700000/Starship-Comparison-Chart-star-wars-24719398-638-479.jpg

Why do spaceships have a top speed?

[Citizensmith 3]

I like the idea as well, but varying the cost may be enough.  Make engine upgrade small ship only and then add something else, "Overcharge"? which has the same effect but costs more to compensate for the greater effectiveness.  Or, could keep the cost the same but add a negative like picking up a stress token.

[Citizensmith 3]

"Why do spaceships have a top speed?"

 

Sshhhh.  You'll spoil it for us. 

[Budgernaut 6,255]

I like this alot, but IG-88 would be completely nerfed by this, when this ship was built it was created to use the boost for sure.   Looks at it's special abilities and the way it was designed.

 

 

However, I also think you need to have a nerf on Range 1 out of arc shots too.

 

Like I stated before,  this is good, but IG will suffer.    There are lots of large ships, that this effects.   But this is a major issue for IG-88.     So I wouldn't implement it.

 

However,  I would change it so the only way to gain +1 attack die for range one is in the primary arc for all 360 primary weapons.

I think this should be tested. At first pass, I'm inclined to think it won't affect the Aggressors to negatively. If your goal is to dash forward and force an early engagement, sure, it will be less effective, but not by much. And your turn angles are still the same, so the Advanced Sensors + Boost combo should still yield an abundance of movement options. 

 

Like I said, I think I'm going to try this out with Aggressors and see how it goes.

[Arma Quattro 475]

That chart has some erratic speeds.

Tie Bomber and Y-wing have a max speed of 80mglt

B-Wing has a max speed of 91 mglt

X-wing has a max speed of 100mglt

*shrug*

Edited August 22, 2015 by Arma Quattro

[WGNF911 826]

 

Well with the Drag race Phantoms are just as fast as the big ships.

 

Even though we know they are not.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24700000/Starship-Comparison-Chart-star-wars-24719398-638-479.jpg

Why do spaceships have a top speed?

 

Because if they didn't, they'd go plaid or ludicrous!!!  Don't you know Fyziks?  

[Bloodstripe Baron 510]

Ne-ne-ne-ne-ne-ne-ne-necro!

[mazz0 2,910]

Anyone else a bit annoyed by the angles of some of the ships in that chart?  Most of the ships are depicted as though travelling left to right, with the bars behind them as some sort of wake or space-contrail type thing, but the Firespray and 3 of the 4 TIEs are angled differently.  I disapprove.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

Anyone else a bit annoyed by the angles of some of the ships in that chart?  Most of the ships are depicted as though travelling left to right, with the bars behind them as some sort of wake or space-contrail type thing, but the Firespray and 3 of the 4 TIEs are angled differently.  I disapprove.

Outrider, Y-Wing, A-Wing, and Falcon have Vertical views.

Bomber, Fighter, and Advanced have Sagital views.

Slave-1 is Parked.

 

The rest are traveling horizontally, as they ought to have been.

[mazz0 2,910]

 

Anyone else a bit annoyed by the angles of some of the ships in that chart?  Most of the ships are depicted as though travelling left to right, with the bars behind them as some sort of wake or space-contrail type thing, but the Firespray and 3 of the 4 TIEs are angled differently.  I disapprove.

Outrider, Y-Wing, A-Wing, and Falcon have Vertical views.

 

I don't necessarily mind those so much, at least they're only rotated around the axis of their direction of travel (though it is both inconsistent and un-Star Wars).

[Sacimino40 131]

Fantastic idea.

[BlechCola 7]

We've been debating this one at length in a FB forum. 

 

I personally don't think you should be able to add engine upgrade to large ships but a few other ideas have been floated:

1. the different boost ideas that started this thread.
2. doubling the point cost for large ships
3. banning the upgrade for large ships
4. giving large ships that boost (only via engine upgrade) a stress token.

I'm actually a fan of the final one the more we discuss it.  You can still boost, but it will limit your movement options next round.  And it dials back the impact of Fat Dash with the standard PTL, Kyle Kartan and eng upgrade combo as you if you do a boost as your second action then you have 2 stress so will for go an action next turn even if you do a green move, and if you just boost then you can't use the PTL. 

[WGNF911 826]

I like the idea of the OP.  

 

I'd also put forth (and it was covered by others) that engine upgrades be scaled for the different sized ships.  So, you can get an engine upgrade for a Decimator or YT but it's going to cost you 10 points.  

[BlechCola 7]

FFG have come up with the goods with some different fixes:

• new missiles and torps designed to mess with big ships more
• extra munitions making these plus bombs cheaper for some ships
• updated scoring - half the ship cost if it's more than half dead for large ships. 

 

That last one alone would have picked me up 2 extra wins at regionals, which would have seen my only loss to 4 small ships.